The Ghost of Machiavelli, The WMD Hunt Ends

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
The Ghost of Machiavelli, The WMD Hunt Ends (Sent by email)

By Anthony Wade

January 14, 2005

Did you see it happen yesterday? Did you catch the news? It was probably buried as the fourth item, or maybe on page 17 of your local paper. The search is over. After two years and thousands of dead bodies, the search is over. What did we find? Nothing. Yesterday, the White House confirmed that the search for weapons of mass destruction was officially over, without finding as much as a used slingshot.

You remember weapons of mass destruction, don’t you? It was what we were sold this loser war with. It was rammed down the throat of America, with the image of 911 still burned in our minds. It was the fear card, and it was played quite masterfully. You see, George Bush intended to invade Iraq from the moment he walked in the White House. White House insider Paul O’Neill confirmed this. 911 only provided a convenient backdrop.

But Bush had a problem. Saddam had technically not done anything to deserve invading. He was finally cooperating with inspectors and he certainly had no involvement with 911. The only link to terrorism he had was with Israel, not the US. Bush had to make his case before Congress, to our elected officials, to us. He had to provide a good enough reason to justify the war plans he had from day one. The Bushies tossed around some ideas and came up with one they felt they could sell the best to the American people, fear. Let’s take a stroll down memory lane, because we should never forget WHY our kids are dying. It is not freedom, it is not democracy, it is to protect us from a threat that never existed. They are dying because of weapons of mass destruction, that simply did not exist.

The following are Bush quotes, for why we needed to go to war with Iraq:

“The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons…And according to the British government, the Iraqi regime could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes.” [Source: White House Web site]

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical and biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs for missions targeting the United States." [Source: White House Web site]

“The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program…Iraq could have a nuclear weapon in less than a year.” [Source: White House Web site]

"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof - the smoking gun - that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud." [Source: White House Web site]
"If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today — and we do — does it make any sense for the world to wait?" [Source: White House Web site]

"There was a risk – a real risk – that Saddam Hussein would pass weapons, or materials, or information to terrorist networks." [Source: White House Web site]

“We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories.” [Source: White House Web site]

"Here's what -- we've discovered a weapons system, biological labs, that Iraq denied she had, and labs that were prohibited under the U.N. resolutions." [Source: White House Web site]

“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” [Source: White House Web site]

“Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.” [Source: White House Web site]

"From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors." [Source: White House Web site]

From our Vice-President:

“[Saddam] is actively pursuing nuclear weapons at this time.” [Source: CNN Web site]

“We believe Saddam has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.” [Source: Meet the Press transcript]

"[T]he reporting that we had prior to the war this time around was all consistent with that -- basically said that he had a chemical, biological and nuclear program, and estimated that if he could acquire fissile material, he could have a nuclear weapon within a year or two." [Source: Waxman Database]

“Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.” [White House Web site]

What do all of these statements have in common? They were lies. These are just examples, there are hundreds more. There is also Colin Powell’s lie-infested presentation to the United Nations, which will unfortunately tarnish what was a respectable career. Do you remember back then? Do you remember Condi Rice scaring us with visions of mushroom clouds? Do you remember then, when Bush came to us and explained that we were going to war, to ensure our safety. That safety was never in question, it turns out.
Years later we look back on this as an afterthought. I have listened to the folks on the right who make the argument that Saddam was a bad guy, so who cares if there are no WMD? I assume the mother who has to bury her child for a lie cares that there are no WMD. Here is the point that keeps escaping the war mongers. Without the WMD argument, there is no war. It would never have been approved. That is precisely why the President must make his case before Congress.

After the war had begun, and after it was becoming obvious that we were duped, Paul Wolfowitz finally admitted that the entire WMD rationale, was more a bureaucratic decision, then an accurate one. The exact quote was, “For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, [as justification for invading Iraq] because it was the one reason everyone could agree on.” This all seems to fade into the collective memories of the American people. It just doesn’t seem right. Even though the White House made it official yesterday, we had confirmation in the summer when the final report came in. But it was an election season, and those seeking to protect Bush, hushed the issue.

Where is the outrage? Why is everyone so accepting of the fact that we are at war, illegitimately? The first great political philosopher of the Renaissance was Nicolo Machiavelli, and he proffered the notion that the ends justify the means. This essentially means that if the end result is palatable, then who cares how you got there. We cannot live in a Machiavellian society. We cannot extend that much power to any president. It is vital to the underpinnings of our society that we maintain checks and balances. If the president no longer has to concern himself with why we wage war, then we have left democracy and have headed toward fascism. We cannot turn over our collective conscience to any one man.

The precedent set here is that a future president can cook intelligence to serve any purpose he wants. He can then present it to congress to sell a war. When the original reason is debunked, he can simply find any redeemable result of the war and simply change the reasons for the war in the first place. Was Saddam a bad guy? Absolutely. Was that a good enough reason to blow up the entire country, kill scores of people, and begin a decade long occupation? Absolutely not. How can I say that? Because if it was, then the president should have presented that to the American people and see if it would have been enough. There should never be a bureaucratic reason to go to war. There should never be the need to have to have a cover story that everyone can “agree on”.

The ghost of Machiavelli is alive and well and residing in the White House. The ends do not justify the means. We did not need the White House to announce that the hunt was over because according to their own words, the hunt never really mattered. The reason why we are at war, never mattered. The reason why tens of thousands of people are dead, never mattered. The reason why every day we see more of our children die in the sands of a desert we had no business being in, never mattered. The sobering reality however, is that the American people seem to agree with the fact that it never mattered.

The blasé attitude this country has toward this president waging war without justification has led to Bush being brazen enough to not even be remotely contrite about the entire affair. This Friday, an interview Bush gave Barbara Walters will air. In it, Bush is asked about if this war was worth it, given that now we know there was no WMD. In light of the deaths of 1,300 service people, tens of thousands of deaths of civilians, and staring at a decade long occupation; this is what Bush has the nerve to say:

"The removal of Saddam Hussein has made America safer because a dictator, a tyrant, a thug, with whom we had been at war in the past, who was destabilizing a vital part of the world, who was paying the families of suicide bombers, is no longer in power," Bush said. "And he no longer has the capacity to reconstitute a weapons program. … Yes, it's worth it."

Buoyed by the fact that the lies used to start the war were accepted, Bush obviously has no qualms about continuing the prevarications. The facts are that America is NOT safer now than before the war, because this war has created more hatred and terrorism toward the US. The facts are that Saddam was not a destabilizing force in this region because the UN sanctions had crippled his country and its infrastructure. The fact is that the money paid to families of suicide bombers was Israel’s problem, not ours. The fact is that he was no where near being able to reconstitute any weapons programs. I am sorry, but the fact is that this war was not worth it.

Bush did not come to Congress, to us, and say that war was necessary because Saddam was destabilizing the region. Bush did not come before us and say that war was necessary because Saddam was a tyrant, or a thug, or that he paid families of suicide bombers. He did not ask for war powers because we had been at war with him in the past. No, he came to us and asked for war because of weapons of mass destruction, period. That was why we allowed him the awesome power to wage war. It is the only reason that justifies the war. It is the only thing that can make the effort “worth it”. But we let this walk on by. We allow the most powerful man in the world, with the most powerful military in the world, to create any reason to wage war, after the fact. In doing so, we transfer all power to him and leave democracy in ruins. We embolden him and legitimize an illegitimate war. We send a message to the world that war is a casual matter now.

The announcement came yesterday with little fanfare, ho-hum, no big deal. THE REASON WHY WE WENT TO WAR AND HAVE KILLED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HAS TURNED OUT TO BE FALSE. Just another day at the office, let me check my stock portfolio, who won the Jets game…

Somewhere, the ghost of Machiavelli is smiling.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
The Ghost of Machiavelli, The WMD Hunt Ends (Sent by email)

By Anthony Wade

January 14, 2005

Did you see it happen yesterday? Did you catch the news? It was probably buried as the fourth item, or maybe on page 17 of your local paper. The search is over. After two years and thousands of dead bodies, the search is over. What did we find? Nothing. Yesterday, the White House confirmed that the search for weapons of mass destruction was officially over, without finding as much as a used slingshot.

You remember weapons of mass destruction, don’t you? It was what we were sold this loser war with. It was rammed down the throat of America, with the image of 911 still burned in our minds. It was the fear card, and it was played quite masterfully. You see, George Bush intended to invade Iraq from the moment he walked in the White House. White House insider Paul O’Neill confirmed this. 911 only provided a convenient backdrop.

But Bush had a problem. Saddam had technically not done anything to deserve invading. He was finally cooperating with inspectors and he certainly had no involvement with 911. The only link to terrorism he had was with Israel, not the US. Bush had to make his case before Congress, to our elected officials, to us. He had to provide a good enough reason to justify the war plans he had from day one. The Bushies tossed around some ideas and came up with one they felt they could sell the best to the American people, fear. Let’s take a stroll down memory lane, because we should never forget WHY our kids are dying. It is not freedom, it is not democracy, it is to protect us from a threat that never existed. They are dying because of weapons of mass destruction, that simply did not exist.

The following are Bush quotes, for why we needed to go to war with Iraq:

“The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons…And according to the British government, the Iraqi regime could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes.” [Source: White House Web site]

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical and biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs for missions targeting the United States." [Source: White House Web site]

“The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program…Iraq could have a nuclear weapon in less than a year.” [Source: White House Web site]

"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof - the smoking gun - that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud." [Source: White House Web site]
"If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today — and we do — does it make any sense for the world to wait?" [Source: White House Web site]

"There was a risk – a real risk – that Saddam Hussein would pass weapons, or materials, or information to terrorist networks." [Source: White House Web site]

“We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories.” [Source: White House Web site]

"Here's what -- we've discovered a weapons system, biological labs, that Iraq denied she had, and labs that were prohibited under the U.N. resolutions." [Source: White House Web site]

“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” [Source: White House Web site]

“Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.” [Source: White House Web site]

"From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors." [Source: White House Web site]

From our Vice-President:

“[Saddam] is actively pursuing nuclear weapons at this time.” [Source: CNN Web site]

“We believe Saddam has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.” [Source: Meet the Press transcript]

"[T]he reporting that we had prior to the war this time around was all consistent with that -- basically said that he had a chemical, biological and nuclear program, and estimated that if he could acquire fissile material, he could have a nuclear weapon within a year or two." [Source: Waxman Database]

“Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.” [White House Web site]

What do all of these statements have in common? They were lies. These are just examples, there are hundreds more. There is also Colin Powell’s lie-infested presentation to the United Nations, which will unfortunately tarnish what was a respectable career. Do you remember back then? Do you remember Condi Rice scaring us with visions of mushroom clouds? Do you remember then, when Bush came to us and explained that we were going to war, to ensure our safety. That safety was never in question, it turns out.
Years later we look back on this as an afterthought. I have listened to the folks on the right who make the argument that Saddam was a bad guy, so who cares if there are no WMD? I assume the mother who has to bury her child for a lie cares that there are no WMD. Here is the point that keeps escaping the war mongers. Without the WMD argument, there is no war. It would never have been approved. That is precisely why the President must make his case before Congress.

After the war had begun, and after it was becoming obvious that we were duped, Paul Wolfowitz finally admitted that the entire WMD rationale, was more a bureaucratic decision, then an accurate one. The exact quote was, “For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, [as justification for invading Iraq] because it was the one reason everyone could agree on.” This all seems to fade into the collective memories of the American people. It just doesn’t seem right. Even though the White House made it official yesterday, we had confirmation in the summer when the final report came in. But it was an election season, and those seeking to protect Bush, hushed the issue.

Where is the outrage? Why is everyone so accepting of the fact that we are at war, illegitimately? The first great political philosopher of the Renaissance was Nicolo Machiavelli, and he proffered the notion that the ends justify the means. This essentially means that if the end result is palatable, then who cares how you got there. We cannot live in a Machiavellian society. We cannot extend that much power to any president. It is vital to the underpinnings of our society that we maintain checks and balances. If the president no longer has to concern himself with why we wage war, then we have left democracy and have headed toward fascism. We cannot turn over our collective conscience to any one man.

The precedent set here is that a future president can cook intelligence to serve any purpose he wants. He can then present it to congress to sell a war. When the original reason is debunked, he can simply find any redeemable result of the war and simply change the reasons for the war in the first place. Was Saddam a bad guy? Absolutely. Was that a good enough reason to blow up the entire country, kill scores of people, and begin a decade long occupation? Absolutely not. How can I say that? Because if it was, then the president should have presented that to the American people and see if it would have been enough. There should never be a bureaucratic reason to go to war. There should never be the need to have to have a cover story that everyone can “agree on”.

The ghost of Machiavelli is alive and well and residing in the White House. The ends do not justify the means. We did not need the White House to announce that the hunt was over because according to their own words, the hunt never really mattered. The reason why we are at war, never mattered. The reason why tens of thousands of people are dead, never mattered. The reason why every day we see more of our children die in the sands of a desert we had no business being in, never mattered. The sobering reality however, is that the American people seem to agree with the fact that it never mattered.

The blasé attitude this country has toward this president waging war without justification has led to Bush being brazen enough to not even be remotely contrite about the entire affair. This Friday, an interview Bush gave Barbara Walters will air. In it, Bush is asked about if this war was worth it, given that now we know there was no WMD. In light of the deaths of 1,300 service people, tens of thousands of deaths of civilians, and staring at a decade long occupation; this is what Bush has the nerve to say:

"The removal of Saddam Hussein has made America safer because a dictator, a tyrant, a thug, with whom we had been at war in the past, who was destabilizing a vital part of the world, who was paying the families of suicide bombers, is no longer in power," Bush said. "And he no longer has the capacity to reconstitute a weapons program. … Yes, it's worth it."

Buoyed by the fact that the lies used to start the war were accepted, Bush obviously has no qualms about continuing the prevarications. The facts are that America is NOT safer now than before the war, because this war has created more hatred and terrorism toward the US. The facts are that Saddam was not a destabilizing force in this region because the UN sanctions had crippled his country and its infrastructure. The fact is that the money paid to families of suicide bombers was Israel’s problem, not ours. The fact is that he was no where near being able to reconstitute any weapons programs. I am sorry, but the fact is that this war was not worth it.

Bush did not come to Congress, to us, and say that war was necessary because Saddam was destabilizing the region. Bush did not come before us and say that war was necessary because Saddam was a tyrant, or a thug, or that he paid families of suicide bombers. He did not ask for war powers because we had been at war with him in the past. No, he came to us and asked for war because of weapons of mass destruction, period. That was why we allowed him the awesome power to wage war. It is the only reason that justifies the war. It is the only thing that can make the effort “worth it”. But we let this walk on by. We allow the most powerful man in the world, with the most powerful military in the world, to create any reason to wage war, after the fact. In doing so, we transfer all power to him and leave democracy in ruins. We embolden him and legitimize an illegitimate war. We send a message to the world that war is a casual matter now.

The announcement came yesterday with little fanfare, ho-hum, no big deal. THE REASON WHY WE WENT TO WAR AND HAVE KILLED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HAS TURNED OUT TO BE FALSE. Just another day at the office, let me check my stock portfolio, who won the Jets game…

Somewhere, the ghost of Machiavelli is smiling.
 

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
The Ghost of Machiavelli, The WMD Hunt Ends (Sent by email)

By Anthony Wade

January 14, 2005

Did you see it happen yesterday? Did you catch the news? It was probably buried as the fourth item, or maybe on page 17 of your local paper. The search is over. After two years and thousands of dead bodies, the search is over. What did we find? Nothing. Yesterday, the White House confirmed that the search for weapons of mass destruction was officially over, without finding as much as a used slingshot.

You remember weapons of mass destruction, don’t you? It was what we were sold this loser war with. It was rammed down the throat of America, with the image of 911 still burned in our minds. It was the fear card, and it was played quite masterfully. You see, George Bush intended to invade Iraq from the moment he walked in the White House. White House insider Paul O’Neill confirmed this. 911 only provided a convenient backdrop.

But Bush had a problem. Saddam had technically not done anything to deserve invading. He was finally cooperating with inspectors and he certainly had no involvement with 911. The only link to terrorism he had was with Israel, not the US. Bush had to make his case before Congress, to our elected officials, to us. He had to provide a good enough reason to justify the war plans he had from day one. The Bushies tossed around some ideas and came up with one they felt they could sell the best to the American people, fear. Let’s take a stroll down memory lane, because we should never forget WHY our kids are dying. It is not freedom, it is not democracy, it is to protect us from a threat that never existed. They are dying because of weapons of mass destruction, that simply did not exist.

The following are Bush quotes, for why we needed to go to war with Iraq:

“The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons…And according to the British government, the Iraqi regime could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes.” [Source: White House Web site]

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical and biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs for missions targeting the United States." [Source: White House Web site]

“The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program…Iraq could have a nuclear weapon in less than a year.” [Source: White House Web site]

"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof - the smoking gun - that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud." [Source: White House Web site]
"If we know Saddam Hussein has dangerous weapons today — and we do — does it make any sense for the world to wait?" [Source: White House Web site]

"There was a risk – a real risk – that Saddam Hussein would pass weapons, or materials, or information to terrorist networks." [Source: White House Web site]

“We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories.” [Source: White House Web site]

"Here's what -- we've discovered a weapons system, biological labs, that Iraq denied she had, and labs that were prohibited under the U.N. resolutions." [Source: White House Web site]

“The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” [Source: White House Web site]

“Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.” [Source: White House Web site]

"From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors." [Source: White House Web site]

From our Vice-President:

“[Saddam] is actively pursuing nuclear weapons at this time.” [Source: CNN Web site]

“We believe Saddam has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.” [Source: Meet the Press transcript]

"[T]he reporting that we had prior to the war this time around was all consistent with that -- basically said that he had a chemical, biological and nuclear program, and estimated that if he could acquire fissile material, he could have a nuclear weapon within a year or two." [Source: Waxman Database]

“Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.” [White House Web site]

What do all of these statements have in common? They were lies. These are just examples, there are hundreds more. There is also Colin Powell’s lie-infested presentation to the United Nations, which will unfortunately tarnish what was a respectable career. Do you remember back then? Do you remember Condi Rice scaring us with visions of mushroom clouds? Do you remember then, when Bush came to us and explained that we were going to war, to ensure our safety. That safety was never in question, it turns out.
Years later we look back on this as an afterthought. I have listened to the folks on the right who make the argument that Saddam was a bad guy, so who cares if there are no WMD? I assume the mother who has to bury her child for a lie cares that there are no WMD. Here is the point that keeps escaping the war mongers. Without the WMD argument, there is no war. It would never have been approved. That is precisely why the President must make his case before Congress.

After the war had begun, and after it was becoming obvious that we were duped, Paul Wolfowitz finally admitted that the entire WMD rationale, was more a bureaucratic decision, then an accurate one. The exact quote was, “For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction, [as justification for invading Iraq] because it was the one reason everyone could agree on.” This all seems to fade into the collective memories of the American people. It just doesn’t seem right. Even though the White House made it official yesterday, we had confirmation in the summer when the final report came in. But it was an election season, and those seeking to protect Bush, hushed the issue.

Where is the outrage? Why is everyone so accepting of the fact that we are at war, illegitimately? The first great political philosopher of the Renaissance was Nicolo Machiavelli, and he proffered the notion that the ends justify the means. This essentially means that if the end result is palatable, then who cares how you got there. We cannot live in a Machiavellian society. We cannot extend that much power to any president. It is vital to the underpinnings of our society that we maintain checks and balances. If the president no longer has to concern himself with why we wage war, then we have left democracy and have headed toward fascism. We cannot turn over our collective conscience to any one man.

The precedent set here is that a future president can cook intelligence to serve any purpose he wants. He can then present it to congress to sell a war. When the original reason is debunked, he can simply find any redeemable result of the war and simply change the reasons for the war in the first place. Was Saddam a bad guy? Absolutely. Was that a good enough reason to blow up the entire country, kill scores of people, and begin a decade long occupation? Absolutely not. How can I say that? Because if it was, then the president should have presented that to the American people and see if it would have been enough. There should never be a bureaucratic reason to go to war. There should never be the need to have to have a cover story that everyone can “agree on”.

The ghost of Machiavelli is alive and well and residing in the White House. The ends do not justify the means. We did not need the White House to announce that the hunt was over because according to their own words, the hunt never really mattered. The reason why we are at war, never mattered. The reason why tens of thousands of people are dead, never mattered. The reason why every day we see more of our children die in the sands of a desert we had no business being in, never mattered. The sobering reality however, is that the American people seem to agree with the fact that it never mattered.

The blasé attitude this country has toward this president waging war without justification has led to Bush being brazen enough to not even be remotely contrite about the entire affair. This Friday, an interview Bush gave Barbara Walters will air. In it, Bush is asked about if this war was worth it, given that now we know there was no WMD. In light of the deaths of 1,300 service people, tens of thousands of deaths of civilians, and staring at a decade long occupation; this is what Bush has the nerve to say:

"The removal of Saddam Hussein has made America safer because a dictator, a tyrant, a thug, with whom we had been at war in the past, who was destabilizing a vital part of the world, who was paying the families of suicide bombers, is no longer in power," Bush said. "And he no longer has the capacity to reconstitute a weapons program. … Yes, it's worth it."

Buoyed by the fact that the lies used to start the war were accepted, Bush obviously has no qualms about continuing the prevarications. The facts are that America is NOT safer now than before the war, because this war has created more hatred and terrorism toward the US. The facts are that Saddam was not a destabilizing force in this region because the UN sanctions had crippled his country and its infrastructure. The fact is that the money paid to families of suicide bombers was Israel’s problem, not ours. The fact is that he was no where near being able to reconstitute any weapons programs. I am sorry, but the fact is that this war was not worth it.

Bush did not come to Congress, to us, and say that war was necessary because Saddam was destabilizing the region. Bush did not come before us and say that war was necessary because Saddam was a tyrant, or a thug, or that he paid families of suicide bombers. He did not ask for war powers because we had been at war with him in the past. No, he came to us and asked for war because of weapons of mass destruction, period. That was why we allowed him the awesome power to wage war. It is the only reason that justifies the war. It is the only thing that can make the effort “worth it”. But we let this walk on by. We allow the most powerful man in the world, with the most powerful military in the world, to create any reason to wage war, after the fact. In doing so, we transfer all power to him and leave democracy in ruins. We embolden him and legitimize an illegitimate war. We send a message to the world that war is a casual matter now.

The announcement came yesterday with little fanfare, ho-hum, no big deal. THE REASON WHY WE WENT TO WAR AND HAVE KILLED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HAS TURNED OUT TO BE FALSE. Just another day at the office, let me check my stock portfolio, who won the Jets game…

Somewhere, the ghost of Machiavelli is smiling.
 

passpatoo

Electoral Member
Aug 29, 2004
128
0
16
Algoma
Good article!

I, embarassingly, must admit that I thought that the weapons would be there. It was incomprehensible to me that the US gov. could have such a large quantity of detailed inteligence and not have it be essentially factual. I also found it hard to believe that the US gov. could concieve to knowingly lie, especially on such a grand scale, to the world.

I knew I was wrong on the first point when the US military was approaching Bagdad, and no WMDs were used against them. Doesn't a cornered animal fight with all it's resources when it is cornered by it's adversary? That's when the search for WMD's ended for me.

Over time, I came to realise that I was wrong on the second point as well. The implications of that scare me.
 

passpatoo

Electoral Member
Aug 29, 2004
128
0
16
Algoma
Good article!

I, embarassingly, must admit that I thought that the weapons would be there. It was incomprehensible to me that the US gov. could have such a large quantity of detailed inteligence and not have it be essentially factual. I also found it hard to believe that the US gov. could concieve to knowingly lie, especially on such a grand scale, to the world.

I knew I was wrong on the first point when the US military was approaching Bagdad, and no WMDs were used against them. Doesn't a cornered animal fight with all it's resources when it is cornered by it's adversary? That's when the search for WMD's ended for me.

Over time, I came to realise that I was wrong on the second point as well. The implications of that scare me.
 

passpatoo

Electoral Member
Aug 29, 2004
128
0
16
Algoma
Good article!

I, embarassingly, must admit that I thought that the weapons would be there. It was incomprehensible to me that the US gov. could have such a large quantity of detailed inteligence and not have it be essentially factual. I also found it hard to believe that the US gov. could concieve to knowingly lie, especially on such a grand scale, to the world.

I knew I was wrong on the first point when the US military was approaching Bagdad, and no WMDs were used against them. Doesn't a cornered animal fight with all it's resources when it is cornered by it's adversary? That's when the search for WMD's ended for me.

Over time, I came to realise that I was wrong on the second point as well. The implications of that scare me.
 

Ten Packs

Council Member
Nov 21, 2004
1,505
5
38
Kamloops BC
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
:lol: Cool cartoon, Ten Packs.

I knew I was wrong on the first point when the US military was approaching Bagdad, and no WMDs were used against them.

When Blix and Ritter came forward and said there were no weapons I figured it out. Until then I just assumed that Saddam had everything he had before. I never did buy the thing about the nukes...if there was any serious development of those it would have made the news.

What amazes me is that nothing has been planted.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
:lol: Cool cartoon, Ten Packs.

I knew I was wrong on the first point when the US military was approaching Bagdad, and no WMDs were used against them.

When Blix and Ritter came forward and said there were no weapons I figured it out. Until then I just assumed that Saddam had everything he had before. I never did buy the thing about the nukes...if there was any serious development of those it would have made the news.

What amazes me is that nothing has been planted.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
:lol: Cool cartoon, Ten Packs.

I knew I was wrong on the first point when the US military was approaching Bagdad, and no WMDs were used against them.

When Blix and Ritter came forward and said there were no weapons I figured it out. Until then I just assumed that Saddam had everything he had before. I never did buy the thing about the nukes...if there was any serious development of those it would have made the news.

What amazes me is that nothing has been planted.
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
0
36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
Here is how I see it:

The U.S. promised Sistani (the Mullah) that elections would be held. So, Sistani went along with the occupation. The U.S. can't back out of elections now.

4 or 5 provinces are too insecure to provide election booths but Bush said it was okay. Imagine .... 50% of the population lives in these insecure provinces and won't be able to vote?

Sistani has already indicated that the Kurds are Iraqis' and not gonna get their own state or whatever.

The opposition has called for the withdrawal of US troops as the price of ending at least the nationalist part of the insurgency.

I noticed that Bush is now blaming the Iraqi people for the problems. At first they blamed Saddam, Sunnis and imported terrorists. Now, they are saying it is up to Iraqis' to bring democracy and to stop the violence. The US blames everyone but themselves.

Bush is out front now apologizing for "bring 'em on" and stuff like that .... because if the election is held, some guy in a turban and dressed like Arafat is gonna be shaking Bush's hand.
What will Americans say then? Countless lives lost in order to elect a Mullah? What a laugh, eh?

A Mullah is gonna draw up the new Iraq constitution.
chuckle-Chuckle!

Calm
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
0
36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
Here is how I see it:

The U.S. promised Sistani (the Mullah) that elections would be held. So, Sistani went along with the occupation. The U.S. can't back out of elections now.

4 or 5 provinces are too insecure to provide election booths but Bush said it was okay. Imagine .... 50% of the population lives in these insecure provinces and won't be able to vote?

Sistani has already indicated that the Kurds are Iraqis' and not gonna get their own state or whatever.

The opposition has called for the withdrawal of US troops as the price of ending at least the nationalist part of the insurgency.

I noticed that Bush is now blaming the Iraqi people for the problems. At first they blamed Saddam, Sunnis and imported terrorists. Now, they are saying it is up to Iraqis' to bring democracy and to stop the violence. The US blames everyone but themselves.

Bush is out front now apologizing for "bring 'em on" and stuff like that .... because if the election is held, some guy in a turban and dressed like Arafat is gonna be shaking Bush's hand.
What will Americans say then? Countless lives lost in order to elect a Mullah? What a laugh, eh?

A Mullah is gonna draw up the new Iraq constitution.
chuckle-Chuckle!

Calm
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
0
36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
Here is how I see it:

The U.S. promised Sistani (the Mullah) that elections would be held. So, Sistani went along with the occupation. The U.S. can't back out of elections now.

4 or 5 provinces are too insecure to provide election booths but Bush said it was okay. Imagine .... 50% of the population lives in these insecure provinces and won't be able to vote?

Sistani has already indicated that the Kurds are Iraqis' and not gonna get their own state or whatever.

The opposition has called for the withdrawal of US troops as the price of ending at least the nationalist part of the insurgency.

I noticed that Bush is now blaming the Iraqi people for the problems. At first they blamed Saddam, Sunnis and imported terrorists. Now, they are saying it is up to Iraqis' to bring democracy and to stop the violence. The US blames everyone but themselves.

Bush is out front now apologizing for "bring 'em on" and stuff like that .... because if the election is held, some guy in a turban and dressed like Arafat is gonna be shaking Bush's hand.
What will Americans say then? Countless lives lost in order to elect a Mullah? What a laugh, eh?

A Mullah is gonna draw up the new Iraq constitution.
chuckle-Chuckle!

Calm
 

copenhagensgood

New Member
Jan 16, 2005
7
0
1
Re: RE: The Ghost of Machiavelli, The WMD Hunt Ends

passpatoo said:
It was incomprehensible to me that the US gov. could have such a large quantity of detailed inteligence and not have it be essentially factual. I also found it hard to believe that the US gov. could concieve to knowingly lie, especially on such a grand scale, to the world.

I don't believe they lied. I believe they believed the weapons were there at a time. I personally believe Sadam moved them or gave them to Al Queda. It is still a very good thing that Sadam is out of power though. That you can't argue.
 

copenhagensgood

New Member
Jan 16, 2005
7
0
1
Re: RE: The Ghost of Machiavelli, The WMD Hunt Ends

passpatoo said:
It was incomprehensible to me that the US gov. could have such a large quantity of detailed inteligence and not have it be essentially factual. I also found it hard to believe that the US gov. could concieve to knowingly lie, especially on such a grand scale, to the world.

I don't believe they lied. I believe they believed the weapons were there at a time. I personally believe Sadam moved them or gave them to Al Queda. It is still a very good thing that Sadam is out of power though. That you can't argue.
 

copenhagensgood

New Member
Jan 16, 2005
7
0
1
Re: RE: The Ghost of Machiavelli, The WMD Hunt Ends

passpatoo said:
It was incomprehensible to me that the US gov. could have such a large quantity of detailed inteligence and not have it be essentially factual. I also found it hard to believe that the US gov. could concieve to knowingly lie, especially on such a grand scale, to the world.

I don't believe they lied. I believe they believed the weapons were there at a time. I personally believe Sadam moved them or gave them to Al Queda. It is still a very good thing that Sadam is out of power though. That you can't argue.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: The Ghost of Machiave

The thing is that Iraq shows no signs of being better off under US rule and it is doubtful that Iraq will be any better off when a puppet regime backed by the US military is in place.

It's a recipe for creating another dictatorship, another Hussein.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: The Ghost of Machiave

The thing is that Iraq shows no signs of being better off under US rule and it is doubtful that Iraq will be any better off when a puppet regime backed by the US military is in place.

It's a recipe for creating another dictatorship, another Hussein.