We (Americans) Are All Torturers Now

notsoproud2

New Member
Jan 5, 2005
36
0
6
USA
Since finding out what many of us already suspected - the trail of torture leads to George W. Bush - newspaper columnists are starting to speak up.

Today's New York Times contains a couple of opinion articles hinting that since Bush is the author of torture at the prison camps and Americans have re-elected him, we are all torturers now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/opinion/06danner.html?ex=1106043051&ei=1&en=06c445c8f25aa736
We Are All Torturers Now
January 6, 2005
By MARK DANNER

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/politics/06abuse.html?ex=1106043578&ei=1&en=48c33ffe5633ccc3
Newly Released Reports Show Early Concern on Prison Abuse
January 6, 2005
By KATE ZERNIKE

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/opinion/06dowd.html?ex=1106043347&ei=1&en=39fe8660f485ab7d
Don't Torture Yourself (That's His Job)
January 6, 2005
By MAUREEN DOWD
 

SewardSaint

New Member
Jan 2, 2005
12
0
1
RE: We (Americans) Are Al

The New York Times is displaying their agenda so much, only the far lefties care what's in it.
 

grimy

New Member
Apr 11, 2004
44
0
6
Try this on for size, fair lept off the page

How the Left Betrayed My Country - Iraq
By Naseer Flayih Hasan

FrontPageMagazine.com | January 3, 2005

Before the last war, we Iraqis spent decades cut off from the outside world. Not only did the Baathist regime prevent us from traveling during the Iran-Iraq conflict and the period of the sanctions, but they punished anyone possessing satellite television. And of course, internet access was strictly limited. Because of our isolation, most of us had little idea or sense about life beyond our borders.

We did believe, however, that democracy and human rights were important factors in Western civilization. So it came as a shock to us when millions of people began demonstrating across the world against America’s build-up to the invasion of our country. We supposed the protests were by people who had no idea about the terrible atrocities that the regime had inflicted upon us for decades. We assumed that once they learned what had happened in Iraq, they would change their minds, or modify their opposition to the war.

My first clue that this would not happen was a few weeks after Baghdad fell. I had befriended a French reporter who had begun to realize that the situation in Iraq was not how the international media or the so-called “peace camp” described it. I noticed, however, that whenever he tried to voice his doubts to colleagues, they argued that he was wrong. Soon afterwards, I met a Dutch woman on Mutinabi Street, where booksellers lay out their wares on Friday morning. I asked her how long she’d been in Iraq and, through a translator, she answered, “Three months.”

“So you were here during the war?”

“Yes!” she said. “To see the crimes of the Americans!”

I was stunned. After a moment, I replied, “What about the crimes of the regime? It killed millions of Iraqis. Do you know that if the regime was still in power, the conversation we’re having now would result in our torture or death?”

Her face turned red and she angrily responded, “Soon will come the day that the Americans will do worse.” She then went on to accuse me of not knowing what the true facts were in Iraq—and that she could see the situation better than me!

She was not the only “humanitarian” who expressed such outrageous opinions. One afternoon, I was speaking to some members of the American anti-war group “Voices in the Wilderness.” One of the group’s members declared that the Iraqi Governing Council (then in power at the time) were “traitors.” I was shocked. Most of the Council were people whom we Iraqis knew had suffered and sacrificed in a long struggle against the regime. Some represented opposition parties who had lost ten of thousand of members in that struggle. Others came from families who had lost up to 30 loved ones to the Baathists.

After those, and many other, experiences, we finally comprehended how little we had in common with these “peace activists” who constantly decried American crimes, and hated to listen to us talk about the terrible long nightmare that ended with the collapse of the regime. We came to understand how these “humanitarians” experienced a sort of pleasure when terrorists or former remnants of the regime created destruction in Iraq—just so they could feel that they were right, and the Americans wrong!

Worse, we realized it was hopeless to make them grasp our feelings. We believed—and still believe--that America’s removal of the regime opened a new way for democracy. At the same time, we have no illusions that the U.S. came to Iraq on a white horse to save our people. We understand this war is all about national interests, and that America’s interests are mainly about defeating terrorism. At this moment, though, U.S. interests are doing more to bring about democracy and freedom in Iraq than, say, the policies of France and Russia—countries which also care little for the Iraqi people and, worse, did their best to save Saddam from destruction until the last moment.

It’s worth noting, as well, that the general attitude of peace activists I met was tension and anger. They were impossible to reason with. This was because, on one hand, the sometimes considerable risks they took to oppose the war made them unable to accept the fact that their cause was not as noble as they believed. Then, too, their dogmatic anti-American attitudes naturally drew them to guides, translators, drivers and Iraqi acquaintances who were themselves supporters of the regime. These Iraqis, in turn, affected the peace activists until they came to share almost the same judgments and opinions as the terrorists and defenders of Saddam.

This was very disappointing for someone like me, who thought for decades that the Left was generally the progressive power in the world. You can imagine how aghast I was when my French reporter friend told me that the Communist Party in his country actually considers the “insurgents” to be the equivalent of the French Gaullists! Or how troubling it is to hear Jacques Chirac take satisfaction from the violence wreaked by the terrorists—those bloody monsters that we Iraqis know so well—because they justify France’s original opposition to the war.

And so I have become disillusioned, at least with the Leftists I met in Iraq. So noble in their rhetoric, they looked to the stars, yet ignored what was happening around them, caring only about what was inside their minds. So glorious in their ideals, their thoughts were inflexible and their deeds unnecessary, even harmful. In the end, they proved to me how dogma and fanaticism had transform peace activists into—lifeless peace “statues.”

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16513
 

grimy

New Member
Apr 11, 2004
44
0
6
Try this on for size, fair lept off the page

How the Left Betrayed My Country - Iraq
By Naseer Flayih Hasan

FrontPageMagazine.com | January 3, 2005

Before the last war, we Iraqis spent decades cut off from the outside world. Not only did the Baathist regime prevent us from traveling during the Iran-Iraq conflict and the period of the sanctions, but they punished anyone possessing satellite television. And of course, internet access was strictly limited. Because of our isolation, most of us had little idea or sense about life beyond our borders.

We did believe, however, that democracy and human rights were important factors in Western civilization. So it came as a shock to us when millions of people began demonstrating across the world against America’s build-up to the invasion of our country. We supposed the protests were by people who had no idea about the terrible atrocities that the regime had inflicted upon us for decades. We assumed that once they learned what had happened in Iraq, they would change their minds, or modify their opposition to the war.

My first clue that this would not happen was a few weeks after Baghdad fell. I had befriended a French reporter who had begun to realize that the situation in Iraq was not how the international media or the so-called “peace camp” described it. I noticed, however, that whenever he tried to voice his doubts to colleagues, they argued that he was wrong. Soon afterwards, I met a Dutch woman on Mutinabi Street, where booksellers lay out their wares on Friday morning. I asked her how long she’d been in Iraq and, through a translator, she answered, “Three months.”

“So you were here during the war?”

“Yes!” she said. “To see the crimes of the Americans!”

I was stunned. After a moment, I replied, “What about the crimes of the regime? It killed millions of Iraqis. Do you know that if the regime was still in power, the conversation we’re having now would result in our torture or death?”

Her face turned red and she angrily responded, “Soon will come the day that the Americans will do worse.” She then went on to accuse me of not knowing what the true facts were in Iraq—and that she could see the situation better than me!

She was not the only “humanitarian” who expressed such outrageous opinions. One afternoon, I was speaking to some members of the American anti-war group “Voices in the Wilderness.” One of the group’s members declared that the Iraqi Governing Council (then in power at the time) were “traitors.” I was shocked. Most of the Council were people whom we Iraqis knew had suffered and sacrificed in a long struggle against the regime. Some represented opposition parties who had lost ten of thousand of members in that struggle. Others came from families who had lost up to 30 loved ones to the Baathists.

After those, and many other, experiences, we finally comprehended how little we had in common with these “peace activists” who constantly decried American crimes, and hated to listen to us talk about the terrible long nightmare that ended with the collapse of the regime. We came to understand how these “humanitarians” experienced a sort of pleasure when terrorists or former remnants of the regime created destruction in Iraq—just so they could feel that they were right, and the Americans wrong!

Worse, we realized it was hopeless to make them grasp our feelings. We believed—and still believe--that America’s removal of the regime opened a new way for democracy. At the same time, we have no illusions that the U.S. came to Iraq on a white horse to save our people. We understand this war is all about national interests, and that America’s interests are mainly about defeating terrorism. At this moment, though, U.S. interests are doing more to bring about democracy and freedom in Iraq than, say, the policies of France and Russia—countries which also care little for the Iraqi people and, worse, did their best to save Saddam from destruction until the last moment.

It’s worth noting, as well, that the general attitude of peace activists I met was tension and anger. They were impossible to reason with. This was because, on one hand, the sometimes considerable risks they took to oppose the war made them unable to accept the fact that their cause was not as noble as they believed. Then, too, their dogmatic anti-American attitudes naturally drew them to guides, translators, drivers and Iraqi acquaintances who were themselves supporters of the regime. These Iraqis, in turn, affected the peace activists until they came to share almost the same judgments and opinions as the terrorists and defenders of Saddam.

This was very disappointing for someone like me, who thought for decades that the Left was generally the progressive power in the world. You can imagine how aghast I was when my French reporter friend told me that the Communist Party in his country actually considers the “insurgents” to be the equivalent of the French Gaullists! Or how troubling it is to hear Jacques Chirac take satisfaction from the violence wreaked by the terrorists—those bloody monsters that we Iraqis know so well—because they justify France’s original opposition to the war.

And so I have become disillusioned, at least with the Leftists I met in Iraq. So noble in their rhetoric, they looked to the stars, yet ignored what was happening around them, caring only about what was inside their minds. So glorious in their ideals, their thoughts were inflexible and their deeds unnecessary, even harmful. In the end, they proved to me how dogma and fanaticism had transform peace activists into—lifeless peace “statues.”

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16513
 

grimy

New Member
Apr 11, 2004
44
0
6
Try this on for size, fair lept off the page

How the Left Betrayed My Country - Iraq
By Naseer Flayih Hasan

FrontPageMagazine.com | January 3, 2005

Before the last war, we Iraqis spent decades cut off from the outside world. Not only did the Baathist regime prevent us from traveling during the Iran-Iraq conflict and the period of the sanctions, but they punished anyone possessing satellite television. And of course, internet access was strictly limited. Because of our isolation, most of us had little idea or sense about life beyond our borders.

We did believe, however, that democracy and human rights were important factors in Western civilization. So it came as a shock to us when millions of people began demonstrating across the world against America’s build-up to the invasion of our country. We supposed the protests were by people who had no idea about the terrible atrocities that the regime had inflicted upon us for decades. We assumed that once they learned what had happened in Iraq, they would change their minds, or modify their opposition to the war.

My first clue that this would not happen was a few weeks after Baghdad fell. I had befriended a French reporter who had begun to realize that the situation in Iraq was not how the international media or the so-called “peace camp” described it. I noticed, however, that whenever he tried to voice his doubts to colleagues, they argued that he was wrong. Soon afterwards, I met a Dutch woman on Mutinabi Street, where booksellers lay out their wares on Friday morning. I asked her how long she’d been in Iraq and, through a translator, she answered, “Three months.”

“So you were here during the war?”

“Yes!” she said. “To see the crimes of the Americans!”

I was stunned. After a moment, I replied, “What about the crimes of the regime? It killed millions of Iraqis. Do you know that if the regime was still in power, the conversation we’re having now would result in our torture or death?”

Her face turned red and she angrily responded, “Soon will come the day that the Americans will do worse.” She then went on to accuse me of not knowing what the true facts were in Iraq—and that she could see the situation better than me!

She was not the only “humanitarian” who expressed such outrageous opinions. One afternoon, I was speaking to some members of the American anti-war group “Voices in the Wilderness.” One of the group’s members declared that the Iraqi Governing Council (then in power at the time) were “traitors.” I was shocked. Most of the Council were people whom we Iraqis knew had suffered and sacrificed in a long struggle against the regime. Some represented opposition parties who had lost ten of thousand of members in that struggle. Others came from families who had lost up to 30 loved ones to the Baathists.

After those, and many other, experiences, we finally comprehended how little we had in common with these “peace activists” who constantly decried American crimes, and hated to listen to us talk about the terrible long nightmare that ended with the collapse of the regime. We came to understand how these “humanitarians” experienced a sort of pleasure when terrorists or former remnants of the regime created destruction in Iraq—just so they could feel that they were right, and the Americans wrong!

Worse, we realized it was hopeless to make them grasp our feelings. We believed—and still believe--that America’s removal of the regime opened a new way for democracy. At the same time, we have no illusions that the U.S. came to Iraq on a white horse to save our people. We understand this war is all about national interests, and that America’s interests are mainly about defeating terrorism. At this moment, though, U.S. interests are doing more to bring about democracy and freedom in Iraq than, say, the policies of France and Russia—countries which also care little for the Iraqi people and, worse, did their best to save Saddam from destruction until the last moment.

It’s worth noting, as well, that the general attitude of peace activists I met was tension and anger. They were impossible to reason with. This was because, on one hand, the sometimes considerable risks they took to oppose the war made them unable to accept the fact that their cause was not as noble as they believed. Then, too, their dogmatic anti-American attitudes naturally drew them to guides, translators, drivers and Iraqi acquaintances who were themselves supporters of the regime. These Iraqis, in turn, affected the peace activists until they came to share almost the same judgments and opinions as the terrorists and defenders of Saddam.

This was very disappointing for someone like me, who thought for decades that the Left was generally the progressive power in the world. You can imagine how aghast I was when my French reporter friend told me that the Communist Party in his country actually considers the “insurgents” to be the equivalent of the French Gaullists! Or how troubling it is to hear Jacques Chirac take satisfaction from the violence wreaked by the terrorists—those bloody monsters that we Iraqis know so well—because they justify France’s original opposition to the war.

And so I have become disillusioned, at least with the Leftists I met in Iraq. So noble in their rhetoric, they looked to the stars, yet ignored what was happening around them, caring only about what was inside their minds. So glorious in their ideals, their thoughts were inflexible and their deeds unnecessary, even harmful. In the end, they proved to me how dogma and fanaticism had transform peace activists into—lifeless peace “statues.”

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16513
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Not only did the Baathist regime prevent us from traveling during the Iran-Iraq conflict and the period of the sanctions, but they punished anyone possessing satellite television.

During the Iran-Iraq conflict? Hey, wait a minute...the US and Saddam were best pals during that war. Of course the Reagan administration was illegally selling arms to Iran too, but they were friends with Saddam. They even protected him from international condemnation
when he murdered his own people.

And the sanctions? The US, along with its good buddy Britain, were the ones insisting that those sanctions be kept in place.

Sorry, Grimy...the truth is that Saddam was a monster, but he was very much a monster created and fed by neo-conservative Republicans, many of who are working in the White House today.

Your propaganda just doesn't hold up.

:D
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Not only did the Baathist regime prevent us from traveling during the Iran-Iraq conflict and the period of the sanctions, but they punished anyone possessing satellite television.

During the Iran-Iraq conflict? Hey, wait a minute...the US and Saddam were best pals during that war. Of course the Reagan administration was illegally selling arms to Iran too, but they were friends with Saddam. They even protected him from international condemnation
when he murdered his own people.

And the sanctions? The US, along with its good buddy Britain, were the ones insisting that those sanctions be kept in place.

Sorry, Grimy...the truth is that Saddam was a monster, but he was very much a monster created and fed by neo-conservative Republicans, many of who are working in the White House today.

Your propaganda just doesn't hold up.

:D
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Not only did the Baathist regime prevent us from traveling during the Iran-Iraq conflict and the period of the sanctions, but they punished anyone possessing satellite television.

During the Iran-Iraq conflict? Hey, wait a minute...the US and Saddam were best pals during that war. Of course the Reagan administration was illegally selling arms to Iran too, but they were friends with Saddam. They even protected him from international condemnation
when he murdered his own people.

And the sanctions? The US, along with its good buddy Britain, were the ones insisting that those sanctions be kept in place.

Sorry, Grimy...the truth is that Saddam was a monster, but he was very much a monster created and fed by neo-conservative Republicans, many of who are working in the White House today.

Your propaganda just doesn't hold up.

:D
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
42
48
SW Ontario
Reverend Blair said:
Your propaganda just doesn't hold up.

Sorry Revvy, a couple of benign historical references to Reagan's policy and some jibberish about who supported sanctions and who didn't did nothing to address Grimy's "propaganda". :D
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
42
48
SW Ontario
Reverend Blair said:
Your propaganda just doesn't hold up.

Sorry Revvy, a couple of benign historical references to Reagan's policy and some jibberish about who supported sanctions and who didn't did nothing to address Grimy's "propaganda". :D
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
42
48
SW Ontario
Reverend Blair said:
Your propaganda just doesn't hold up.

Sorry Revvy, a couple of benign historical references to Reagan's policy and some jibberish about who supported sanctions and who didn't did nothing to address Grimy's "propaganda". :D
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: We (Americans) Are Al

There's nothing there to address, Facts. I could post links to stories full of Iraqis saying that the US is even worse than Saddam and pointing to the lack of security, clean water, and electricity. We've all seen those stories...the links are here.

The historical fact that the same guys who used to support Saddam are now trying to villify him for doing things that they were fully aware of back in the 1980s is so hypocritical that it's hilarious. That they can still find Iraqis willing to play along is just sad.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: We (Americans) Are Al

There's nothing there to address, Facts. I could post links to stories full of Iraqis saying that the US is even worse than Saddam and pointing to the lack of security, clean water, and electricity. We've all seen those stories...the links are here.

The historical fact that the same guys who used to support Saddam are now trying to villify him for doing things that they were fully aware of back in the 1980s is so hypocritical that it's hilarious. That they can still find Iraqis willing to play along is just sad.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: We (Americans) Are Al

There's nothing there to address, Facts. I could post links to stories full of Iraqis saying that the US is even worse than Saddam and pointing to the lack of security, clean water, and electricity. We've all seen those stories...the links are here.

The historical fact that the same guys who used to support Saddam are now trying to villify him for doing things that they were fully aware of back in the 1980s is so hypocritical that it's hilarious. That they can still find Iraqis willing to play along is just sad.
 

notsoproud2

New Member
Jan 5, 2005
36
0
6
USA
From: http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

  • Baghdad Burning

    ... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend...

    Saturday, November 13, 2004

    Murder...
    People in Falloojeh are being murdered. The stories coming back are horrifying. People being shot in cold blood in the streets and being buried under tons of concrete and iron... WHERE IS THE WORLD? Bury Arafat and hurry up and pay attention to what's happening in Iraq.

    They say the people have nothing to eat. No produce is going into the city and the water has been cut off for days and days. Do you know what it's like to have no clean water??? People are drinking contaminated water and coming down with diarrhoea and other diseases. There are corpses in the street because no one can risk leaving their home to bury people. Families are burying children and parents in the gardens of their homes. WHERE IS EVERYONE???

    Furthermore, where is Sistani? Why isn't he saying anything about the situation? When the South was being attacked, Sunni clerics everywhere decried the attacks. Where is Sistani now, when people are looking to him for some reaction? The silence is deafening.

    We're not leaving the house lately. There was a total of 8 hours of electricity today and we've been using the generator sparingly because there is a mysterious fuel shortage... several explosions were heard in different places.

    Things are deteriorating swiftly.

    More on Falloojeh crisis here:

    http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/headline.php?id=195
    Aid agencies say Falluja "big disaster"...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4004873.stm
    Eyewitness: Smoke and Corpses...

    Iraqis will never forgive this- never. It's outrageous- it's genocide and America, with the help and support of Allawi, is responsible. May whoever contributes to this see the sorrow, terror and misery of the people suffering in Falloojeh.
 

notsoproud2

New Member
Jan 5, 2005
36
0
6
USA
From: http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

  • Baghdad Burning

    ... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend...

    Saturday, November 13, 2004

    Murder...
    People in Falloojeh are being murdered. The stories coming back are horrifying. People being shot in cold blood in the streets and being buried under tons of concrete and iron... WHERE IS THE WORLD? Bury Arafat and hurry up and pay attention to what's happening in Iraq.

    They say the people have nothing to eat. No produce is going into the city and the water has been cut off for days and days. Do you know what it's like to have no clean water??? People are drinking contaminated water and coming down with diarrhoea and other diseases. There are corpses in the street because no one can risk leaving their home to bury people. Families are burying children and parents in the gardens of their homes. WHERE IS EVERYONE???

    Furthermore, where is Sistani? Why isn't he saying anything about the situation? When the South was being attacked, Sunni clerics everywhere decried the attacks. Where is Sistani now, when people are looking to him for some reaction? The silence is deafening.

    We're not leaving the house lately. There was a total of 8 hours of electricity today and we've been using the generator sparingly because there is a mysterious fuel shortage... several explosions were heard in different places.

    Things are deteriorating swiftly.

    More on Falloojeh crisis here:

    http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/headline.php?id=195
    Aid agencies say Falluja "big disaster"...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4004873.stm
    Eyewitness: Smoke and Corpses...

    Iraqis will never forgive this- never. It's outrageous- it's genocide and America, with the help and support of Allawi, is responsible. May whoever contributes to this see the sorrow, terror and misery of the people suffering in Falloojeh.
 

notsoproud2

New Member
Jan 5, 2005
36
0
6
USA
From: http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

  • Baghdad Burning

    ... I'll meet you 'round the bend my friend, where hearts can heal and souls can mend...

    Saturday, November 13, 2004

    Murder...
    People in Falloojeh are being murdered. The stories coming back are horrifying. People being shot in cold blood in the streets and being buried under tons of concrete and iron... WHERE IS THE WORLD? Bury Arafat and hurry up and pay attention to what's happening in Iraq.

    They say the people have nothing to eat. No produce is going into the city and the water has been cut off for days and days. Do you know what it's like to have no clean water??? People are drinking contaminated water and coming down with diarrhoea and other diseases. There are corpses in the street because no one can risk leaving their home to bury people. Families are burying children and parents in the gardens of their homes. WHERE IS EVERYONE???

    Furthermore, where is Sistani? Why isn't he saying anything about the situation? When the South was being attacked, Sunni clerics everywhere decried the attacks. Where is Sistani now, when people are looking to him for some reaction? The silence is deafening.

    We're not leaving the house lately. There was a total of 8 hours of electricity today and we've been using the generator sparingly because there is a mysterious fuel shortage... several explosions were heard in different places.

    Things are deteriorating swiftly.

    More on Falloojeh crisis here:

    http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/headline.php?id=195
    Aid agencies say Falluja "big disaster"...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4004873.stm
    Eyewitness: Smoke and Corpses...

    Iraqis will never forgive this- never. It's outrageous- it's genocide and America, with the help and support of Allawi, is responsible. May whoever contributes to this see the sorrow, terror and misery of the people suffering in Falloojeh.
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
0
36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
Hi! Grimy

I really enjoyed the read. "How the Left Betrayed My Country - Iraq"

I guess that if I was in Iraq and supported the US invasion, that would be how I felt.

I thought it was well said.

And for sure .... I'm one of those "Lefties" who chuckle aloud each time I hear of another US failure and defeat.
Actually, after reading the article, I felt kind of guilty.

Not guilty enough to change my opinion, but enough to have me know another "Right-tard's" opinon.

Calm
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
0
36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
Hi! Grimy

I really enjoyed the read. "How the Left Betrayed My Country - Iraq"

I guess that if I was in Iraq and supported the US invasion, that would be how I felt.

I thought it was well said.

And for sure .... I'm one of those "Lefties" who chuckle aloud each time I hear of another US failure and defeat.
Actually, after reading the article, I felt kind of guilty.

Not guilty enough to change my opinion, but enough to have me know another "Right-tard's" opinon.

Calm
 

Paranoid Dot Calm

Council Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,142
0
36
Hide-Away Lane, Toronto
Hi! Grimy

I really enjoyed the read. "How the Left Betrayed My Country - Iraq"

I guess that if I was in Iraq and supported the US invasion, that would be how I felt.

I thought it was well said.

And for sure .... I'm one of those "Lefties" who chuckle aloud each time I hear of another US failure and defeat.
Actually, after reading the article, I felt kind of guilty.

Not guilty enough to change my opinion, but enough to have me know another "Right-tard's" opinon.

Calm