Ukrainian Elections

Rick van Opbergen
#1
Quote:

Ukraine election body declares Russian-backed candidate as winner
Last Updated Wed, 24 Nov 2004 14:09:02 EST
KIEV, UKRAINE - Ukraine's Central Elections Commission has announced Viktor Yanukovych as the official winner of the presidential election, even though two of its 13 members urged their colleagues not to sign the final document. Yanukovych got 49.46 percent of Sunday's vote while his challenger, Viktor Yushchenko, garnered 46.61 percent, the commission said in giving its final results.

Protester offers flowers to police in Kyiv.
Yushchenko had said Wednesday he supported holding another election again as long as the commission in charge of counting the ballots is made up of different people. "If the authorities find a re-vote necessary, we are ready," Yushchenko told a crowd of about 200,000 huddled in Kiev's Independence Square on Wednesday. The pro-Western presidential challenger had accused authorities of rigging the vote in support of Kremlin-backed Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych in Sunday's disputed run-off election. Western-funded exit polls of thousands of voters had shown Yushchenko leading by a comfortable margin.

Quote has been trimmed
source: www.cbc.ca

I know that this is already going on for two days, but better late than never.
 
Reverend Blair
#2
I'm afraid that it's going to slip into civil war. The country is divided (geographically) almost down the centre, as near as I can see. The majority of the population seems to have supported Yushchenko, but the Yanukovych is preferred by the Kremlin.

Wanna hear something funny? I know people with both of those names.
 
Rick van Opbergen
#3
I knew you would be the first to react, with your Ukrainian roots (or is that a false assumption?). Although I want to look at it out of a positive prospective, I do fear the worst, as you point out: civil war. Yushchenko does not accept the outcome of the elections (which is logical, with the alleged massive fraud during the elections), but it seems Yanukovych does not want to give up his "victory" either.
 
Reverend Blair
#4
I do have Ukrainian roots, Rick. There's actually a town there named after my family. Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta are full of Ukrainians, so I'm certainly not alone. Not really why I'm following the story though...I follow a lot of things that happen in Africa too, but I have no African roots.

What they need to do is have another election...a properly run one. If it is properly run we'll know who the president is at the end.

This is the kind of situation where the UN should have automatic authority to step in and fix things before they become even worse.
 
Rick van Opbergen
#5
Agreed.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
Avatar
#6
Jeh. The outcome of this election is certainly turning head across the world. Ukraine isn't used to fair elections like we are so when they have one who comes out victorious with many doubts, they're going to feel like old times.

They are on the road to democracy, but I don't know if it will lead to civil war. At the very least, they should have their elections again and have a CLEAR AND DECISIVE winner.

I think the only choice they have is to hold their elections again. Who cares what the Kremlin thinks. This isn't the Eastern Bloc anymore.
 
Rick van Opbergen
#7
OK, but point is: will Yanukovych, as well as Leonid Kuchma, agree with another election round?
 
Reverend Blair
#8
Nope. Not if they can help it. I don't see them having much choice though...the people don't accept the results and the world doesn't accept the results.
 
Andem
Free Thinker
#9
Looks like the US is not recognising the outcome of the elections, either!

Quote:

Powell Says Ukraine Vote Was Full of Fraud
By STEVEN R. WEISMAN
Published: November 25, 2004


WASHINGTON, Nov. 24 - Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said Wednesday that the voting in Ukraine's presidential election was riddled with fraud and that the United States could not accept a victory by Victor F. Yanukovich as legitimate.

In an unusually tough statement that some diplomats said could widen a breach with Russia, which openly backed Mr. Yanukovich, Mr. Powell also warned that there would be "serious consequences" to the American-Ukraine relationship if allegations of fraud were not cleared up.

"We cannot accept this result as legitimate because it does not meet international standards and because there has not been an investigation of the numerous and credible reports of fraud and abuse," he said. "It is still not too late for Ukrainian authorities to find a solution that respects the will of the Ukrainian people."

Full Story: NY Times

 
Reverend Blair
#10
Ten Packs posted that link to a Country Joe tune earlier today. I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't dig up the "Feelin' Like I'm Fixin' to Die Rag" too.

Christ...Putin and Bush. It's like Yuri Andropov and Droolin' Ronnie Rayguns...all smiles and hugs as they try to wipe the blood off their hands on each others suits. We got lucky last time...Yuri dropped off.

Vlad is looking as healthy as the average vampire though, and Georgie is made made out of oil so he doesn't biodegrade worth a damn.

Oh, wait...this is about the Ukraine and what the people there want. Like their own culture and control over their natural resources and maybe some sovereignty.

S'cuse me I have to go plug in the electric giraffe...
 
Rick van Opbergen
#11
Quote:

Court puts Ukraine result on hold
Thursday, November 25, 2004 Posted: 1836 GMT (0236 HKT)


Lech Walesa joins Yushchenko during a rally Thursday in Kiev.

KIEV, Ukraine (CNN) - "This is only the beginning," Ukraine's opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko told tens of thousands of cheering supporters after the country's Supreme Court barred publication of disputed presidential election results until his appeal hearing. The court will conduct its examination on Monday, the Interfax news agency said.

Thursday's decision will delay any formal inauguration of Viktor Yanukovych and keep outgoing President Leonid Kuchma in power for the time being. "The court ruling bars the Central Election Commission from officially publishing the results of the election and proceeding with any other action connected with this," a statement from the court said. Yushchenko immediately hailed the ruling as a victory.

"This is only the beginning. It is proof that it is society that always wins. It is small compensation for the suffering that we have endured," he told tens of thousands of supporters on Kiev's Independence Square to wild cheering. The supporters had turned out for a fourth day in the bitter cold, and opposition leaders pressed ahead with plans for a nationwide strike to protest the election outcome amid allegations of vote rigging.

Yushchenko called for an "all-Ukrainian political strike" after election officials on Wednesday declared Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych the winner of Sunday's presidential runoff. An ally of liberal opposition chief Viktor Yushchenko urged supporters on Thursday to begin blockading Ukraine's government building and parliament to press demands to overturn the results of a presidential election. "We are setting up a peaceful blockade of the government building and the Verkhovna Rada (parliament) and will strengthen our blockade around the presidential administration building," Yulia Tymoshenko told a vast crowd in Independence Square, Reuters reported.

"We are launching a siege of the authorities." Another Yushchenko ally, Oleksander Zinchenko, also announced that the opposition chief had issued a half dozen "decrees" on behalf of a newly-created Committee for National Salvation to uphold public order and guarantee media freedoms. Ukrainian legal experts told CNN that Yushchenko could not appeal the results of the election.

But he could appeal the actions of the election commission, arguing that it acted too quickly in declaring a winner in the vote without investigating allegations of fraud and abuse.In an exclusive interview with CNN's Jill Dougherty earlier Wednesday, Yushchenko said the commission should set aside the results and call new elections in districts where documented irregularities took place.

Yushchenko said he had proof that at least 3 million votes were falsified. He said his supporters have amassed more than 11,000 complaints about the voting and considered 200 of them serious. In one region, he said, turnout increased by a half million voters after polls closed. "How can that be? It was a massive injection of the ballots in favor of the other candidate," he said.

Nelson Ledsky, the National Democratic Institute's regional director for Eurasia and one of the international observers, said the observers noted cases of ballot stuffing, more votes recorded in some areas than registered voters, and some employees being threatened with losing their jobs if they did not mark ballots before the election. "There is an understanding widespread over the country that the vote was rigged," Ledsky said. The United States, Canada and the European Union denounced the vote as rigged and refused to recognize the results as legitimate - putting the West at odds with Russia.

The Ukraine crisis dominated a post-summit news conference with EU leaders and Russian President Vladimir Putin in The Hague. Although the EU said it could not accept the results of the vote, Putin said that only Ukrainians could decide the winner of their election. Putin, who congratulated Yanukovych on his victory even before final results were announced, sent another telegram of congratulations Thursday. In Kiev, former Polish leader and Solidarity founder Lech Walesa addressed the thousands of protesters gathered in the capital's main square.

"I am amazed with your emotions and your enthusiasm. I am deeply sure that it will lead to your victory," The Associated Press quoted Walesa as saying. Thousands of demonstrators, wearing the orange colors of Yushchenko's campaign, spent a fourth night in giant tent encampments in the center of the capital. Smaller groups of pro-government demonstrators have rallied nearby, waving blue and white flags in support of Yanukovych.

Socialist Party leader Oleksander Moroz said the opposition would attempt to halt transport and close schools, universities and factories. The opposition said some roads had already been blocked and workers had gone on strike, but there was no way of independently verifying the claims, AP reported.

Workers from several factories in the western opposition stronghold of Lviv were reportedly leaving their jobs to come to Kiev, AP said. But it was a different story in the pro-Russian, heavily industrialized east, where coal miners pledged to support Yanukovych, Reuters reported. "The miners will work and will continue to work. They know that without our labor the country cannot exist," Reuters quoted trade union chief Igor Strelchenko as saying. "The miners are for Viktor Fedorovich (Yanukovych)."

A widespread strike would risk provoking a crackdown by outgoing President Leonid Kuchma, who has accused the opposition of trying to carry out "a coup d'etat." On Wednesday, the election commission announced Yanukovych won Sunday's hotly contested presidential runoff with 49.46 percent of the vote to Yushchenko's 46.61 percent.

But international observers said the voting was riddled with irregularities, and four of the panel's 15 members voted against the final report in a raucous meeting that was broadcast live on Ukrainian television. U.S. and British officials have called for an investigation into the election. In Washington, Secretary of State Colin Powell said the United States does not accept the results of Ukraine's presidential elections as legitimate, citing "extensive and credible ... reports of fraud and abuse." The United States has issued a travel alert about the "potential for civil unrest and disturbances" in Ukraine. Canada, with 1 million residents of Ukrainian background, also said it did not accept the results.

source: --
 
Reverend Blair
#12
I heard there were 16 Russian tanks on the way at another site. I also saw a woman tying a solidarity ribbon on a cop at one of the protests on TV.

Putin is complaining about "outside influences." What the hell is he? He also said that he wants to see it settled in the courts, not by protestors in the street. Presumably Moscow still has some influence in Ukrainian courts.
 
Rick van Opbergen
#13
I saw on the news that the municipal police of Kiev has taken sides with the opposition.
 
Paranoid Dot Calm
#14
Is it Possible the People of the Ukraine Love Democracy More than Americans?
November 24, 2004

Is it possible the people of the Ukraine love freedom and fair play more than the people of the United States? It sure looks that way.

“Tens of thousands of [Viktor Yushchenko’s] supporters roamed the capital Kiev for a third day, marching past buildings housing the presidency, government and parliament and chanting: ‘Yushchenko! Yushchenko!’ The mass protests engulfed every corner of the city center and paralyzed all normal work. People in apartment buildings opened their windows and waved flags of orange—the campaign colors of Yushchenko—and cheered on supporters. Cars drove by with orange streamers fluttering from radio aerials,” Reuters reports.
--

“Ukraine’s outgoing President, Leonid Kuchma, raised the spectre of civil war engulfing the country after election officials declared yesterday that the Prime Minister, Viktor Yanukovych, had won the bitterly fought presidential contest,” writes Askold Krushelnycky for the Independent. “The danger of civil conflict was also raised by the opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko, who has refused to concede defeat in the face of widespread evidence of fraud by the regime. ‘This decision puts Ukraine on the verge of civil conflict,’ he said.”
--

Meanwhile, in America, the media refuses to even address the possibility of fraud in the election, and most Americans don’t even care, that is if they bother to pay attention. Nothing short of merchants giving away Xboxes would motivate them to go into the streets. Election fraud? Like, boooooooring. Politics cannot stand up to NFL weekends and the next episode of Gilmore Girls. Americans would rather watch West Wing than find out what is really going on in Washington.

Let’s face it. America is not a democracy and Americans don’t care if the president is a liar and a cheat. Bush is taking the country down a destructive path—an astounding deficit that will soon destroy the economy, one party rule (once upon a time this was called totalitarianism) by a plutocracy of multinational corporations and whack job evangelical christers and their Israel First fellow travelers, and endless war predicated on lies and absurd fabrications—and most people don’t give a rat’s posterior. Far too many Americans believe it is enough to affix a yellow “God Bless Our Troops” sticker to the ass-end of their SUVs.

Of course, in the months ahead, when the economy bottoms out, interest rates go through the roof, people begin to lose their jobs and homes, and their kids are conscripted to fight Bush’s never-ending wars, Americans will cry foul, maybe even do what the people in Ukraine are doing now.

It will be a day late and a dollar short.

--
 
Rick van Opbergen
#15
Hey can we focus on the Ukraine here?
 
Reverend Blair
#16
Likely not.

Trying to focus on the Ukraine without discussing Russia and the USA is like trying to talk about Saskatchewan without acknowledging the existence of wheat.
 
Rick van Opbergen
#17
But you have to agree with me Rev that Calm's post has nothing to do with the situation in the Ukraine an sich; that it is only a post to "criticize" the US on its own situation it's in. It has nothing to do with the current situation in the Ukraine.

Quote:

Ukraine on brink of 'civil war'

Mr Yushchenko says the vote was rigged against him
Both sides in Ukraine's disputed presidential election have warned of a civil conflict, as tens of thousands of people continue to protest in Kiev. Opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko rejected the official results declaring Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych as president, and urged a general strike.
Outgoing President Leonid Kuchma called on world leaders not to interfere. US Secretary of State Colin Powell said Washington "cannot accept" the election result as legitimate. Correspondents say the opposition supporters show no signs of ending their three days of protests in the capital, Kiev. Calling for a general strike, Mr Yushchenko told a vast crowd of supporters in the central Independence Square that Ukraine was on the brink of a "civil conflict".
Mr Kuchma, who backs Mr Yanukovych, denounced the opposition protests and warned civil war "could well become a reality at the present time". Mr Yanukovych, who has now declared himself the winner, offered to hold talks with the opposition leader. "We must improve our lives and we will do it together - all of our citizens and myself as president of Ukraine," he said in a brief appearance on state television. But a key member of the opposition team...

Quote has been trimmed
source: BBC
 
Paranoid Dot Calm
#18
Hey! Rick van Opbergen

I've probably read about 30 articles concerning the events taking place in the Ukraine.
--

But, the one I chose to post here was a commentary and not so much a factual news story. I think it was quite a good "spin" on the current events, and that is why I chose this article over other choices I had available to me.

And because I'm an "avid" poster, I always try and sneak my contribution into someone else's thread, so that my Nic does not appear page after page when viewing topics. (As the originator of a thread.)

Calm
 
Rick van Opbergen
#19
Hey Paranoid, I do appreciate your contributions, no doubt about that, but what I feared was that your post could change the topic of this thread to one about the US, and that's why I said I'd rather stuck to the Ukraine.
 
Paranoid Dot Calm
#20
Big Media's Democracy Double Standards
By Robert Parry
November 23, 2004

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Reverend Blair
#21
Quote:

that's why I said I'd rather stuck to the Ukraine.

Ah, so you've had the boiled wheat then.

It has nothing to do with the Ukraine, but it has to do with the Ukraine. A while earlier I ended a post by saying I had to go plug in the electric giraffe because I'd written a whole post about the Ukraine that had nothing to do with the Ukraine.

Given the interconnectedness of world affairs, that sort of thing is unavoidable unless you are talking about a major power.
 
Paranoid Dot Calm
#22
How Ukrainians became citizens
By Alexander Motyl
November 25, 2004

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Paranoid Dot Calm
#23
This is a good source for information concerning the Ukraine
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Chaos and carnations
November 27, 2004
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Once more into the valley of death?
By Askold Krushelnycky
October 24, 2004
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Ukraine Special Weapons
April 25, 2000
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Paranoid Dot Calm
#24
It's now or never for Washington
By Mark Almond
December 04, 2004

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