Outrage in Ohio: Angry residents storm State House in respon
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Outrage in Ohio: Angry residents storm State House in respon

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moghrabi
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  #1
Nov 6th, 2004
November 3 - Toledo, Ohio Hundreds of angry Ohio residents marched through the streets of Columbus—Ohio’s Capital—this evening and stormed the Ohio State House, defying orders and arrest threats from Ohio State Troopers. "O-H-I-O ! suppressed democracy has got to go,"they chanted. After troopers pushed and scuffled with people, nearly a hundred people took over the steps and entrance to the State’s giant white column capital building and refused repeated orders to disperse or face arrest. People prepared for arrests, ready to face jail—writing lawyers phone numbers on their arms, signing jail support lists and discussing non-cooperation and active resistance (linking arms, but not fighting back).

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HousesOfApollo
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  #2
Nov 6th, 2004
Good for them man! Civil Disobedience! Refer to my quote. We need this EVERYWHERE. And almost everyday. I think that they ought to fight back, this is nothing short of the opression of a people who used to be arguably the freest people on the face of the earth; goddamn it this is an outrage, and it's LONG overdue for people to start acting like it.
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moghrabi
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  #3
Nov 6th, 2004
It is starting. Wait awhile until they invade Falluja and lose a good number of troops there and you'll see disobedience.

I believe Falluja is going to be a grave mistake for the US. Even Annan warned the US and Britain to stay away.

Maybe it is time for the US to feel that a small number of determined nationalists can beat the **** out of them.
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LadyC
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  #4
Nov 6th, 2004
Didn't they invade Fallujah earlier tonight? I'm sure I heard something on the radio.
moghrabi
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  #5
Nov 6th, 2004
Yes they did. But not full scale. It is going to be ugly.
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  #6
Nov 6th, 2004
There's only one thing I can do as of this moment, that's listening to Masters of War, by Bob Dylan, and shake my head until I cry. This is going to be bad. I see those body bags piling up. Nothing can stop these people, nothing anybody ever does can stop them now! They are the Devil, they are worse, they are real.

"You've thrown the worst fear that could ever be hurled, for to bring children into the world." -- Bob Dylan, Masters of War, it's so eerie to listen to it...
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  #7
Nov 6th, 2004
You know, Apollo - you're a real downer. You can sit in front of your computer bemoaning your fate and shaking your head till you cry. What will that accomplish? Nothing.

Either do something constructive, or accept that your guy lost, and make do the best you can for the next 4 years.

Out of curiosity, did you vote? Did you do any campaigning? Did you try to affect the vote in any way?
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  #8
Nov 6th, 2004
Hell yeah I did, I campaigned for an entire year against Bush. I voted early, and I volunteered for GOTV on election day. And I'd do again, I have no regrets about it. I'm going to get in touch with Democracy for America, and I'm going to try and strengthen the progressive network.
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  #9
Nov 6th, 2004
Good to hear. It just seemed to me that every one of your posts has a decided "Oh woe is me!" air to them.

You seem pretty anti-American for an American.
HousesOfApollo
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  #10
Nov 6th, 2004
Heh, there's a lot of us. But just look at all the idiots in this country, and it's easy to indentify and agree with those out there that hate us. We're bastards! I'm just going through a very confused phase right now, we are all down here. But I'm seeing some sort of order forming, we've already picked our minority senate leader, and we're going to have to start getting some filibusters in order. We have to organize a wartime resistance, and it has to be better than what we had during vietnam. Anyway I'm going to go try and get some sleep. Let's continue this tomorrow if you'd like. Good night!
Andem
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  #11
Nov 6th, 2004
Quoting
Didn't they invade Fallujah earlier tonight? I'm sure I heard something on the radio.
I think the quote I heard on CTV News last night was "inital shots have been fired by American troops". This is by no means a full scale attack yet. We'll be seeing some more developments in Fallujah in the next couple of weeks, maybe a bit longer. That's when we'll see more unrest in the region. That's also when the Bush administration will wish they never step foot in that country.
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  #12
Nov 6th, 2004
HousesOfApollo, I also understand your position very much. You are a rational person with intuition and Internet access. If you can pass this along to your countrymen, and others follow, there could be change in the air... Just wait until there's more havoc in Iraq, you might see more wind of change.
moghrabi
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  #13
Nov 6th, 2004
Quoting
I see those body bags piling up. Nothing can stop these people, nothing anybody ever does can stop them now! They are the Devil, they are worse, they are real.
It depends who you are calling the Devil. Are you referring to the Occupier or the occupied?
HousesOfApollo
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  #14
Nov 6th, 2004
Referring to our goverment, they are the first evil in all this. And I know some would say 9/11 was the first evil, but that was only an infinite mandate for a reign of terror. Osama Bin Laden will not be caught, he is our Goldstein. We are the Devil, for we had no right to do what we've done. I'm going off, so later now...
moghrabi
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  #15
Nov 6th, 2004
Later. Take it easy on yourself.
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  #16
Nov 6th, 2004
I heard earlier today that the top Iraqi Colonel of the "Iraqi" army defected or went AWOL this morning.

Just prior the demolition of Fallu (Whatever) .... this guy desserts and knows the battle plan that the Americans had.

Could be tense.
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moghrabi
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  #17
Nov 6th, 2004
I think it will be ugly. Very Ugly. Lots of dead people from both sides.
vista
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  #18
Nov 7th, 2004
Quote:
Ohio Hundreds of angry Ohio residents marched through the streets of Columbus—Ohio’s Capital—this evening and stormed the Ohio State House, defying orders and arrest threats from Ohio State Troopers. "O-H-I-O ! suppressed democracy has got to go,"they chanted. After troopers pushed and scuffled with people, nearly a hundred people took over the steps and entrance to the State’s giant white column capital building and refused repeated orders to disperse or face arrest. People prepared for arrests, ready to face jail—writing lawyers phone numbers on their arms, signing jail support lists and discussing non-cooperation and active resistance (linking arms, but not fighting back).
THIS is why the Bush administration had the PATRIOT Act prepared BEFORE the 9/11 job.

The contigency plan.

And it will get a whole lot worse...
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HousesOfApollo
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  #19
Nov 7th, 2004
It's already worse, and it's getting worse everyday. They're going to use their media to brand any resistance as either wartime treachery, or domestic terrorism, and use it as a pretext to just destroy us. Everybody down here is afraid of saying 'certain things' that they think could be used to envoke the Patriot Act, it's a climate of fear and intimidation. My parents have warned me that if I don't stop being so vocal and vitriolic towards the administration we'd have "Men in Black" at our doorstep.
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  #20
Nov 7th, 2004
This is old news but worth revisiting -- edited for length but still long -- MCR:

According to Representative Ron Paul (R) of Texas - as reported on November 9th by Kelly O’Meara of the Washington Times’ Insight Magazine - the bill had not even been printed and members of the House could not read it before they were compelled to vote on it. O’Meara wrote, "Meanwhile, efforts to obtain copies of the new bill were stonewalled even by the committee that wrote it." Most of its provisions have nothing to do with fighting terrorism. Under this so-called anti-terrorist measure:

É Any federal law enforcement agency may enter your home or business when you are not there, collect evidence, not tell you about it, and then use that evidence to convict you of a crime; (This nullifies the 4th Amendment to the Constitution). And, says the ACLU, it doesn’t even have to be a terrorism investigation, just a criminal investigation. [Section 213 - The Sneak and Peek provision].

É Any federal law enforcement agency may, if they suspect that you are committing a crime, monitor all of you internet traffic and read your emails. They may also intercept all of your cell phone calls as well. No warrant is required. (This violates the Fourth and Fifth Amendments to the Constitution) [Section 202 and 216] [See FTW on Carnivore, Vol. IV, No.2 - April 30, 2001].

É The FBI or any other federal law enforcement agency may come to your business and seize any of your business records - if they claim it is connected with a terrorist investigation - and they can arrest you if you tell anyone that they were there. (this violates the First and the Fourth Amendments to the Constitution) [Title II, Section 501]

É The CIA can now operate inside the U.S. and spy on American citizens. And, as directed by AG Ashcroft on November 13, it is also permitted to share its intelligence files with local law enforcement agencies (and vice versa). The CIA has spied on Americans for decades, but the fruits of that spying have never been admissible in court. Now law enforcement will have the ability rewrite the intelligence as a probable cause statement, conduct an investigation and introduce it as evidence. This, from material that was collected outside the rules of search and seizure. (There goes the Exclusionary rule of the Fourth Amendment). [Titles 2 & 9].

É The foundation for an international secret political police agency is laid by allowing the CIA to receive wiretap information from any local agency and then share it with the intelligence services of any foreign country. [Section 203]

You’re a good citizen of the Homeland, a good German - I mean American. What can you do anyway?

Section 802 of HR 3162 defines domestic terrorism as "activities that - involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States:… and "appear to be intended to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;" or "to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion;"…

Under this definition the blocking of a driveway at a federal building or defending yourself when attacked by good "Germans" at a protest march - while protesting these violations of the Constitution - could instantly make you a "domestic terrorist" and subject to some of the stiffest penalties ever enacted into law.

Upon reviewing HR 3162 Congressman Paul said to reporter O’Meara, "Our forefathers would think it’s time for a revolution. This is why they revolted in the first place… They revolted against much more mild oppression."

On November 9th, Attorney General Ashcroft announced that he was ordering the Justice Department to begin wiretapping and monitoring attorney-client communications in terrorist cases where the suspect was incarcerated. This was not even discussed in HR 3162. That same day Senator Patrick Leahy (D), Vermont wrote to Ashcroft. He had many questions to ask about what the Justice Department had been doing by violating the trust of Congress and assuming powers which were not authorized by either law or the Constitution. Leahy even quoted a Supreme Court case (U.S. v. Robel):

"[T]his concept of "national defense" cannot be deemed an end in itself, justifying any exercise of… power designed to promote such a goal. Implicit in the term ‘national defense’ is the notion that defending those values and ideas which set this Nation apart… It would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense, we would sanction the subversion of one of those liberties… which makes the defense of the Nation worthwhile."

Leahy asked Ashcroft by what authority had he decided - on his own and without judicial review - to nullify the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution. He asked for an explanation and some description of the procedural safeguards that Ashcroft would put in place. He asked Ashcroft to appear before the Judiciary committee and to respond in writing by November 13.

His answer came a little late.

On November 16, Patrick Leahy received an anthrax letter. And, as of this press time, Ashcroft has not responded in writing.

Moving up the ladder we come to the Vice President, Dick Cheney. The Washington Post reported on November 9 that all summer a major Constitutional clash had been brewing as the former head of oil giant Halliburton refused to surrender to Congress’ investigative arm, the GAO, records from his energy task force. The Post story said, "Comptroller General David M. Walker described the fight as a direct threat to the GAO’s reason for being, a separation-of-powers issue that would determine whether the legislative branch could exercise the oversight role envisioned by the founding fathers." But the Sept 11th attacks have changed all that. A planned suit by the GAO against Cheney to get the records of his task force on oil has been put on hold. Cheney’s violation of the law goes unchallenged in the goose-stepped march of manufactured polls showing support for the administration. Congressman Henry Waxman (D), CA has blasted Cheney on constitutional grounds but there’s little else he can do in the current climate.

And now we come to your President, the guy we started with, by asking what "legal meat" he eats. Apparently he eats anything he damned well pleases. On November 1st, after several months of delays, George W, Bush broke the law himself by changing an Executive Order and declaring that in this national emergency he was going to prevent the release of papers from the Reagan presidency, even though release is mandated by The Presidential Records Act of 1978.

These papers would probably shed glaring light on the criminality of the Reagan-Bush (the elder) years of Iran-Contra, the savings and loan plundering of American taxpayers and the hand-over-fist drug dealing by the CIA at the direction of G.H.W. Bush. But now, in violation of the law, you will never see them. Nor will you likely ever see the papers from the 89-93 Bush Presidency, or the Clinton years - not to mention those of the current administration. What a convenient way to cover up criminal actions.

Representatives Jan Schakowsky (D), Ill, and the ever-brave Henry Waxman rose to the challenge and wrote Bush a letter on November 6th. They said in closing, "These provisions clearly violate the intent of the law…The Executive Order violates the intent of Congress and keeps the public in the dark. We urge you to rescind this executive order and instead begin a dialogue with Congress and the public to determine the need for clarification of this law."

In a last gasp of intellectual, pretzel-bending logic you think, "Wait! We still have the Supreme Court."

This is the same Supreme Court that illegally handed George W. Bush the 2000 election. This is the court that stopped and delayed hand counting long enough to prevent the final results from being known. Those results - as buried by the major media in horrendously dishonest stories released last week - were written as supporting the Supreme Court’s decision to stop the recounts. And based on that decision, the media recount gave Bush the victory. But, as noted by EXTRA! Editor Jim Naureckas in a November 15 Newsday story, the media found that it was quite possible, by examining rejected ballots, to determine the "clear intent of the voter." Yet none of these ballots were included in the media recount and all of the media organizations recognized that, had those ballots been counted, Al Gore would have won.

As constitutional lawyer Mark H. Levine noted in a December 20, 2000 editorial, what the Supreme Court did was to create a one-case only exception where the "clear intent of the voter" - as dictated by Florida law - was no longer applicable standard. By stopping the hand count and overturning the Florida Supreme Court’s correct reading of its own law, it delayed the recount long enough to force a crisis where it could overrule Florida and deliver the election to Bush while thousands of ballots went uncounted.

So much for the Supreme Court.

One of the greatest decisions to ever come out the Supreme Court - when it was one - was rendered in 1866 after the civil war. The case in question was Abraham Lincoln’s suspension of the writ of habeas corpus in arresting protesters and rioters. As recently quoted in an eloquent November 15 article by David Dietman, an attorney and Ph.D. candidate from Erie Pennsylvania, the Court stated:

"The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people equally in war and in peace, and covers with the shield of its protection all classes of men, at all times, and under all circumstances. No doctrine, involving more pernicious consequences, was ever invented by the wit of man than that any of its provisions can be suspended during any of the great exigencies of government." - Ex parte Milligan, 71 U.S. 2 (1866).

So all you have left to put your faith, or your fear, in - as you see it - is the President. You have no faith in yourself, no faith in God, no trust in your fellow citizens and no willingness to experience discomfort. You fail to praise, support and uplift all of the courage that is beginning to reveal itself around you. You draw your blinds and wave your flags hoping for divine intervention before your name or your job comes up on the list. You are a good German, like the Germans who followed Hitler and allowed him to start a war that killed hundreds of millions of people.

And when it is all over, when they come for me, when they come for you, when they come for your job - when history sheds it inevitable light on the criminals that today rule our country - you will say, "I didn’t do anything wrong."

Oh yes you did.
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moghrabi
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  #21
Nov 7th, 2004
Does all of this apply to Canadian citizens?
Reverend Blair
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  #22
Nov 7th, 2004
If you go to the US or any American company has any data on you, definitely.

Our own little patriot act is less intrusive, due mostly to the efforts of Bill Blaikie and the NDP, but still pretty far reaching as well.
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moghrabi
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  #23
Nov 7th, 2004
That is scarey. That means forget going to the US.
HousesOfApollo
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Hell, called 'America' by its nativ
  #24
Nov 7th, 2004
Yea, I think the day that you could meet people from around the world--I live near a national park, so there's a lot of International tourism--is over. People used to want to immigrate to the US to have more rights and opportunities, now they're thinking of emigrating FROM the US . America could soon be Canada's Mexico, your thrid-world neighbor.
moghrabi
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  #25
Nov 7th, 2004
All Empires must fall one day.
vista
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  #26
Nov 7th, 2004
Yes, empires have come and gone - so will the US empire. The key question is what will transpire before and as the great one declines.

Industrialism has come so far, comparitively, greater than the world has ever experienced before, we are walking in unknown territory.

But first will come the economic blow - the world is polarized against the US (and their partner in crime, Isreal). Britain will become increasingly estranged from the US.

Pay off debt. Gold is good.

This from today - BBC:

Canadian freedoms 'under threat'

Canada's privacy commissioner has warned in her annual report that personal freedoms in the country are being eroded by the "war on terror".

Jennifer Stoddart told parliament that as agencies collected more information on people, there were higher risks that travellers would be treated unfairly.

The kinds of security measures taken by the US came in for particular scrutiny.

Better solutions might lie in using existing information more effectively, she added.

Ms Stoddart said recent US pressure on the Canadian government to share information with US authorities about all people travelling to Canada meant there was more of a possibility that people would be wrongly singled out and treated unfairly.

She warned that mistakes had already been made, possibly referring to the high-profile case of Arab-Canadian Maher Arar who was was deported to Syria by the US.

The report also raises concerns about the growing use of private companies by government national security agencies to collect personal information about individuals.

The province of British Columbia has already launched an inquiry into the issue.

This was prompted by fears that a US healthcare company could have access to personal information about Canadians and then be forced under the American Patriot Act to turn that information over to US agencies such as the FBI.

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Reverend Blair
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  #27
Nov 7th, 2004
It's good that the story was picked up by an international news agency. hopefully the European countries will put some pressure on Paul Martin not to cozy up to the US too much.
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"Well, my back has been to the wall for so long, it seems like it's stuck
Why don't you break my heart one more time just for good luck"
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HousesOfApollo
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Hell, called 'America' by its nativ
  #28
Nov 7th, 2004
Yea, but how many people are going to die in our death throws? And what of people living in the US now? I'm talking individual human beings, not just 'empires'.
vista
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  #29
Nov 7th, 2004
The elite do not think of people as human beings. Just look past to the CIA sponsored crack/cocaine epidemic.

It will be darker than the world has ever seen before.
HousesOfApollo
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Hell, called 'America' by its nativ
  #30
Nov 7th, 2004
Well I do, and I guess that's why I am so nervous all the time. What about all the FastFood? I guess I'm paying the price of consciousness. Every passing second we are where we've never been before.

These are some blood black days of death ahead of us....

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