suicide bombers

[peapod]

Hope I am not going to get myself in trouble over this. I had my usual afternoon java at starbucks, the usuals were there, a agrument insued. The agrument was if suicide bombers were cowards or not? All the clutter aside, talking about the actual strapping a bomb to yourself and knowing you are going to die. How can this be the act of a coward? I am not talking about the reasons. I kept my mouth shut, having had my fill of fighting for awhile anyway.

It got darn ugly and personal. These people have known each other for years, and its pretty amazing how a topic can cause so much friction between friends. Someone asked me what I thought, and I said I am not thinking today. But seriously I cannot see how it is an act of cowardice, I see it more has desperation, no light at the end of the tunnel, like most people that committ suicide. I am being serious here, how can you explain to me that killing yourself is the act of a coward, I would like to know.
The old jester angus did tell me something that gave me food for thought, he said when people agrue and get personal about it, it means they don't know what they are talking about. I will have to mull that one over.

 

[Isengard]

Usually, suicide bombers do that to become martyrs. They do that for their cause, whichever it is. I think it has nothing to do with cowardice.

 

[Andem]

I agree with Isengard and peapod. I would see it the opposite of being a coward. It takes a pretty strong person to actually kill themselves for their cause.

It's true, however, that most North Americans don't understand the dynamics of the Middle East and it's conflicts. You only get what the media tells you, and it's almost always slanted.

 

[peapod]

Thanks for the comments. The whole thing just confuses the hell out of me. If I was not friends with the Iranian grocery down the street I would only have the media opinion on what goes on. Since getting to know them, I am amazed at their civilization and what they have accomplished, and that does not mean I approve of suicide bombing either.

 

[bevvyd]

Suicide bomers do it to be a martyr. I was saddened to hear of the mother of 2 kids who blew herself up, and of learning of children learning to become a suicide bomber. Sending in children would constitute cowardice in my books.

There was a poor taste editorial cartoon a while back which read, two kids standing in line and one says to the other "what are you going to be what you blow up?"

They need to make being a suicide bomer a sin, not make a martyr. Make their family pay and maybe this whole sick scenario will stop.

 

[peapod]

I hear what you are saying bevvy. What I mean, is the act of stapping a bomb on to yourself knowing you are going die, an act of a coward? how can someone be a coward who is willing to do that. I am not talking about the rest of it, I do not agree with suicide bombing at all, I just don't see how the act of blowing yourself up can be called an act of a coward thats all. The japanese did it in world war two, nobody called them cowards, nobody liked what they did, alot of people lost their lives, but I don't think anyone called them cowards. Crazy, brainwashed, but not cowards.

 

[Can Man]

An act of desperation against overwhelming military odds . If you don`t have laser guided weaponry you may need another method of delivery. When a Westerner is asked if he would die for his country there is always only one answer.

 

[peapod]

Is that what its really about? or is it something else? Some people tell me
its about christianity verus muslim, some people say its about demorarcy.
How do you know what is really true? how do find out what the real truth is?
Another question? Is the book "the prize" by daniel yergin really considered
the bible of what is going on in the middle east? Many people tell me it
is. Do I take what Mr. yergin writes the true picture? If it is, than would my conclusion not be that its all about oil.

 

[EternalSunshine]

I don't think it's cowardice neither. It really just shows how desperate, hopeless and helpless they are.

 

[bevvyd]

Peapod, I don't know if its about oil or not. A friend of mine who is from Israel told me it is about land claims and the land in question has the rights to the water. Fresh water is scarce seemingly.

To be quite honest I really have no clue. You can't trust what you read in any of the newspapers as they are Asper owned or some other Jewish family who would NEVER print anything positive about Palestine, whether it was true or not. And I don't believe I personally know any Palestinians, so I can't get their side of the story either.

You can't call anyone a coward who is willing to die for a cause, but you could call them an idiot or misguided or just plain wrong.

 

[peapod]

Hard to figure it all out bevvy. Pick up the prize by daniel yergin he won a pulitzer prize for it. I just want to know if this can really be considered the "bible" on middle east oil, money and power. The university kids that work at starbucks passed it on to me last year, and they tell me that this is where you will find alot of the truth.

 

[T. Rex]

Maybe they are not cowards but they sure as hell are extremists who need to be squashed. These people have tons of land in Jordan and Syria get over it. I do not agree with Israel because they are not real friends of Canada or the United States. They stab us in the back every chance they get. But who do you want to deal with? Terrorists who will blow up buildings or an organized government who is willing to negotiate without blowing up your restaurants???

They are two evils and it's the least of them both. Israel.

 

[moghrabi]

When you are dealing with Israel who grabs land for their own, you have nothing to lose. Suicide bombers are desperate ppl who have nothing to fight with except their bodies.

T Rex. You are wrong here. Jordan belongs to Jordanians and Syria to the Syrians. Palestine to the Palestinians. Why are you saying that the Pals have to move t Syria. If you are Canadian or American, would you like to be displaced into Cuba?

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Some time ago I read an impressive article on why there are dozens of youth in the Palestinian Territories who are able and willing to blow themselves up in Israeli malls, busses etc. Now, the article stated that it seriously doubted the personal claim of the majority of suicidebombers that their way of acting lies within the fact that they are desperate. It seems that a lot of extremist parties like Islamic Jihad or Hamas brainwash young people, really indoctrine them with the fact that the only way to get out of the shit they are living in is by blowing themselves up in Israel. I do not deny the fact that a lot of Palestinians people are desperate about the situation (I did some reading about this too); however, I do doubt the claim that many young people are blowing themselves up because they PERSONALLY believe this is the only way to act(without influences from "outside").

 

[Jillyvn]

I can't remember where I saw this, I think CBC, but they were showing footage of the schooling in a fundamentalist islamic country (can't remember which). Basically, a bunch of children were sitting around, listening to their teacher as he indocrtrinated them with hatred and fear, mixed in with a healthy dose of religion. I think we have no clear understanding of the true effect of propaganda on children.

Take a child. Put him in a room and tell him that someone (the Jews, the Americans, whatever) is coming after him and his family - to take his house, to kill his dad. Then tell him that God will afford him a special place in heaven if he dies as a martyr. Build your fundamentalist religion around the idolization of suicide bombers, and worship them like heros. Then, tell the now teenager/young adult that if he does this act, not only will he live forever in the afterlife, but his family will be supported and revered in this life.

Voila. Suicide Bomber. Not really that surprising, and not about cowardice at all.

 

[fubbleskag]

Re: RE: suicide bombers

hmm....

Basically, a bunch of children were sitting around, listening to their television as it indocrtrinated them with hatred and fear... I think we have no clear understanding of the true effect of propaganda on children.

Take a child. Put him in a room and tell him that someone (the terrorists) is coming after him and his family - to take his house, to kill his dad. Then tell him that God will afford him a special place in heaven if he dies as a hero. Then, tell the now teenager/young adult that if he does this act, not only will he live forever in the annals of history, but his family will be supported and revered in this life.

Voila. American. Not really that surprising, and not about cowardice at all.

 

[moghrabi]

Fubbleskag.

I have to say you are good. I had to read it twice to notice the change since the original is on a different page. But you are right. It works both ways, does it not?

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

Hatred and fear ... it's no more than hatred and fear.

 

[moghrabi]

Hatred and fear of what?

 

[Rick van Opbergen]

I mean in general. As in: they rule the world.