Show Us the Proof

moghrabi

House Member
May 25, 2004
4,508
4
38
Canada
June 19, 2004
Show Us the Proof

hen the commission studying the 9/11 terrorist attacks refuted the Bush administration's claims of a connection between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, we suggested that President Bush apologize for using these claims to help win Americans' support for the invasion of Iraq. We did not really expect that to happen. But we were surprised by the depth and ferocity of the administration's capacity for denial. President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have not only brushed aside the panel's findings and questioned its expertise, but they are also trying to rewrite history.

Mr. Bush said the 9/11 panel had actually confirmed his contention that there were "ties" between Iraq and Al Qaeda. He said his administration had never connected Saddam Hussein to 9/11. Both statements are wrong.

Before the war, Mr. Bush spoke of far more than vague "ties" between Iraq and Al Qaeda. He said Iraq had provided Al Qaeda with weapons training, bomb-making expertise and a base in Iraq. On Feb. 8, 2003, Mr. Bush said that "an Al Qaeda operative was sent to Iraq several times in the late 1990's for help in acquiring poisons and gases." The 9/11 panel's report, as well as news articles, indicate that these things never happened.

Mr. Cheney said yesterday that the "evidence is overwhelming" of an Iraq-Qaeda axis and that there had been a "whole series of high-level contacts" between them. The 9/11 panel said a senior Iraqi intelligence officer made three visits to Sudan in the early 1990's, meeting with Osama bin Laden once in 1994. It said Osama bin Laden had asked for "space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded." The panel cited reports of further contacts after Osama bin Laden returned to Afghanistan in 1996, but said there was no working relationship. As far as the public record is concerned, then, Mr. Cheney's "longstanding ties" amount to one confirmed meeting, after which the Iraq government did not help Al Qaeda. By those standards, the United States has longstanding ties to North Korea.

Mr. Bush has also used a terrorist named Abu Musab al-Zarqawi as evidence of a link between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Mr. Bush used to refer to Mr. Zarqawi as a "senior Al Qaeda terrorist planner" who was in Baghdad working with the Iraqi government. But the director of central intelligence, George Tenet, told the Senate earlier this year that Mr. Zarqawi did not work with the Hussein regime, nor under the direction of Al Qaeda.

When it comes to 9/11, someone in the Bush administration has indeed drawn the connection to Iraq: the vice president. Mr. Cheney has repeatedly referred to reports that Mohamed Atta met in Prague in April 2001 with an Iraqi intelligence agent. He told Tim Russert of NBC on Dec. 9, 2001, that this report has "been pretty well confirmed." If so, no one seems to have informed the C.I.A., the Czech government or the 9/11 commission, which said it did not appear to be true. Yet Mr. Cheney cited it, again, on Thursday night on CNBC.

Mr. Cheney said he had lots of documents to prove his claims. We have heard that before, but Mr. Cheney always seems too pressed for time or too concerned about secrets to share them. Last September, Mr. Cheney's adviser, Mary Matalin, explained to The Washington Post that Mr. Cheney had access to lots of secret stuff. She said he had to "tiptoe through the land mines of what's sayable and not sayable" to the public, but that "his job is to connect the dots."

The message, if we hear it properly, is that when it comes to this critical issue, the vice president is not prepared to offer any evidence beyond the flimsy-to-nonexistent arguments he has used in the past, but he wants us to trust him when he says there's more behind the screen. So far, when it comes to Iraq, blind faith in this administration has been a losing strategy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/19/opinion/19SAT1.html
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
1,103
0
36
ok.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4221559,00.html

Putin Says Russia Gave U.S. Intel on Iraq

Saturday June 19, 2004 7:01 AM

Putin Says Russia Gave Bush Information on Possible Iraqi Attacks in U.S. After Sept. 11 threat.

Putin emphasized that the intelligence didn't cause Russia to waver from its firm opposition to the U.S.-led war last year, but his statement was the second this month in which he has offered at least some support for Bush on Iraq.

``After Sept. 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, the Russian special services ... received information that officials from Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States and outside it against the U.S. military and other interests,'' Putin said.

``Despite that information ... Russia's position on Iraq remains unchanged,'' he said in the Kazakh capital, Astana, after regional economic and security summits. He said Russia didn't have any information that Saddam's regime had actually been behind any terrorist acts.

``It's one thing to have information that Saddam's regime is preparing terrorist attacks, (but) we didn't have information that it was involved in any known terrorist attacks,'' he said.

Putin didn't elaborate on any details of the alleged plots or mention whether they were tied to al-Qaida. He said Bush had personally thanked one of the leaders of Russia's intelligence agencies for the information but that he couldn't comment on how critical it was in the U.S. decision to invade Iraq.

In Washington, a U.S. official said Putin's information did not add to what the United States already knew about Saddam's intentions.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said Putin's tip didn't give a time or place for a possible attack.

Bush alleged Thursday that Saddam had ``numerous contacts'' with al-Qaida and said Iraqi agents had met with the terror network's leader, Osama bin Laden, in Sudan.

Saddam ``was a threat because he had terrorist connections - not only al-Qaida connections, but other connections to terrorist organizations,'' Bush said.

However, a commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks reported this week that while there were contacts between al-Qaida and Iraq, they did not appear to have produced ``a collaborative relationship.''

Also Thursday, a top Russian diplomat called for international inspectors to resolve conclusively the question of whether Iraq had any weapons of mass destruction.

``This problem must be resolved ... because to a great extent it became the pretext for the start of the war against Iraq,'' the Interfax news agency quoted Deputy Foreign Minister Yuri Fedotov as saying. He said such a finding would allow the U.N. Security Council to ``finally close the dossier on Iraqi weapons.''

In the wake of the invasion of Iraq, Putin sharply rebuked the United States for going to war despite opposition within the U.N. Security Council and said the threat posed to international security by the war was greater than that posed by Saddam.

But Putin's relationship with Bush is warm by the accounts of both leaders, and last week he said he has no patience for those who criticize Bush on Iraq.

``I don't pay attention to such publications,'' Putin said of media criticism of Bush at the end of the Group of Eight summit in the United States, according to the ITAR-Tass news agency.

Putin said opponents who criticize Bush on Iraq ``don't have any kind of moral right. ... They conducted exactly the same kind of policy in Yugoslavia.''

Russia vehemently opposed the NATO bombing attacks on Yugoslavia in 1999, which the United States pushed for under President Clinton.
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
1,103
0
36
Reverend Blair said:
Ah Vlad Putin. The man who kneels on the floor of the Oval Office to pray with Bush.

I actually laugherd out loud when I read that! 'Pulling a Henry', as we say here.

Still, I wonder if there's merit to his claims. That the State Dept claims no such knowledge, I'd imagine that kind of info would be shared with the IC. The IC has reported contact with the Russians on that matter.

The real question I have is his motive to fabricate the story. He still stands strongly anto war. There appears to be no obvious upside for him to lie-- unless he's looking to change US policy on Chechnya, i.e., back off the critique.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
He's looking for favours, researchok. Maybe over Chechnya, maybe over aid. Vlad is almost as nutty about his religion as George is, though. The two reportedly have formed some sort of born-again bond over it.
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
1,103
0
36
Reverend Blair said:
He's looking for favours, researchok. Maybe over Chechnya, maybe over aid. Vlad is almost as nutty about his religion as George is, though. The two reportedly have formed some sort of born-again bond over it.

Yeah, I'm aware of that.

Be advised though, Russian 'Born Again' is predicated on expedience!

If there is an argument to be made, i'd put my money on the Chechnya thing.

Personally, I'm no fan of Putin, at all. We're looking at guy who misses the 'Good Old Days'. Givem what he's done to the Russian press, I'd say he's looking to bring those 'Good Old Days' back.
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
1,103
0
36
Reverend Blair said:
I much preferred the drunk fool. Russia hasn't had a decent leader since Gorbi was working to end the Cold War.

LMAO!

I guess Yeltsin HAS been on a long bender.

Gorby, I believe, will be treated kindly by history-- more kindly than he is now. This guy had STONES!

Also, as an aside, Woichech Jaruzekski of Poland too, will be remembered well. He danced with the Russian Bear, martial law notwithstanding. Solidarity was in no way ready at the time to lead a govt.

He kept the soviets out of Poland.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
Never mind Jaruzekski or anybody else. If you want to point at one single person for the end of the Cold War, point at Lech Walesa. He's the one that showed people that they could win.
 

researchok

Council Member
Jun 12, 2004
1,103
0
36
Reverend Blair said:
Never mind Jaruzekski or anybody else. If you want to point at one single person for the end of the Cold War, point at Lech Walesa. He's the one that showed people that they could win.

No doubt, he was the face of reform in Eastern Europe, though you can't understimate the influence of John Paul II, and dare I say it, Thatcher and Reagan (I'm putting on my helmet now). I don't think, realistically, anyone of them can claim to be 'the cause', of the fall, bit they were remarkably, very effective together, an almost flawless choreography, right for the times. In truth of course, none of it would have happened with Gorby. He was the dream dance partner.