How should Canada react to a protectionist president?

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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If Clinton takes office, Canada might need to renegotiate NAFTA.

Should Trump take office, Canada will probably need to renegotiate NAFTA.

If we must renegotiate NAFTA, it will probably be towards protectionism.

My proposal? Unilaterally drop all import tariffs and then negotiate from there.

Even if Trump raises tariffs against us, unilaterally dropping tariffs on our side could still be a good strategic plan for Canada in the long term.

In the short term, if manufacturers must pay tariffs to sell to the US but not to Canada, then they would prefer to relocate to the US.

However, this would also result in a significant drop in the CAD relative to the USD. So while Canada's physical exports might suffer, it could still have a positive balance of trade on other fronts. The low CAD would mean more foreign nationals choosing to visit or study in Canada over the more expensive US. R&D might also move to Canada, online sales of intangible products such as software too. It's hard to impose tariffs in cyberspace.

While such a plan would hurt Canada's physical export industries, it would benefit every non-physical export industry (such as travel and tourism, education, R&D, and the sale of software online) while also creating an economy that would be far more resilient to tariffs. If we must impose tariffs, a counter-intuitive strategy would be to impose not import tariffs but rather an export tariff by weight. Since it would be by weight, value-wise it would be a much higher tariff on a raw material than on a high-value light-weight high tech product for example. This would hurt Canada's raw resource export industry by making its exports expensive. The drop in the export of raw materials to the US would further drop the value of the Canadian dollar, which in turn could make the export of our more value-added products more attractive to US consumers, especially given how import tariffs on the US side and export tariffs on the Canadian side would quickly make US products way overpriced.

Should Mexico and other states impose a similar export tariff, it wouldn't take long before the US' most competitive exports would be raw materials. It would be a booming industry in the US no doubt, but at the expense of the US' value-added manufacturing industry, a kind of internationally imposed Dutch disease on the US economy. It would effectively make the US North America's best-priced and most competitive hewers of wood and gas exporters.

Of course Trump is not stupid and so might reciprocate with similar export tariffs. But between the US and every other country in the world in a trade war, it's clear who would lose the most.
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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We just had a protectionist President recently that brought in passport controls, re-armed a border that had been unarmed since the 1880's and drove a wedge between the average citizens on both sides of the border. Another protectionist President will force us to sell our goods and services elsewhere and it will cause us to diverge even more from "Americanism". It will sting but it might just be the sort of boot in the **** that will drive Canada into becoming a great power of her own, some day.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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We just had a protectionist President recently that brought in passport controls, re-armed a border that had been unarmed since the 1880's and drove a wedge between the average citizens on both sides of the border. Another protectionist President will force us to sell our goods and services elsewhere and it will cause us to diverge even more from "Americanism". It will sting but it might just be the sort of boot in the **** that will drive Canada into becoming a great power of her own, some day.

Harper was very much a protectionist too. We forget that true free trade includes the free movement of people.

However, no country can replace the US for Canada due to geographical proximity. We can trade far more efficiently with the US than with Australia for example due to transport costs. The only exception to this would be intangibles like software or knowledge that can be sold online that involve no transportation costs.

Even my own proposal in the OP would hurt the world economy. As a free-trader myself, I did not present it as a best case scenario but rather as damage control in a trade-war scenario.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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We just had a protectionist President recently that brought in passport controls, re-armed a border that had been unarmed since the 1880's and drove a wedge between the average citizens on both sides of the border. Another protectionist President will force us to sell our goods and services elsewhere and it will cause us to diverge even more from "Americanism". It will sting but it might just be the sort of boot in the **** that will drive Canada into becoming a great power of her own, some day.

I'm interested in that great power idea of yours. What would that Canada look like?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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To be clear, I'm proposing the idea in the OP as a kamikaze tactic. It would hurt the Canadian economy, but the US one too, so as to pressure any future president to reconsider a trade war with Canada.

Does dissolving NAFTA dissolve all the deals already made? Softwood lumber, oil and minerals are gonna bite someone's butt

Should the US turn its back on free trade with Canada, we have every right to interpret that as a declaration of economic war against Canada.
 
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Danbones

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Sep 23, 2015
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I tink we should threaten to let quebec separate and threaten to join the US
and den we should tell heem Alberta weell follow...

He will be surrounded, and there is no way to protect himself from such a two pronged attack
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
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I tink we should threaten to let quebec separate and threaten to join the US
and den we should tell heem Alberta weell follow...

He will be surrounded, and there is no way to protect himself from such a two pronged attack

How 1970s of you. Most of us have left that world behind us, a long time ago.

I'm interested in that great power idea of yours. What would that Canada look like?

...in control of the overpopulated World's fresh, drinkable water supply. It will make oil look silly in a century or so.
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
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ah
yes your brain passed on to that other world many moons ago
we can see that
we told you not to drink that embalming fluid...but oh no..you knew better

You can't even get a joke when you look in the mirror
 

eh1eh

Blah Blah Blah
Aug 31, 2006
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Under a Lone Palm
If Trump becomes president we should close our borders and seize all American assets and corporate interests in Canada.
Plus make all Americans living in Canada wear badges and report to authorities weekly.
Ya, that should do it.
Oh, wait.
We'll need to have them get started on that wall on their northern boarder. The one they're paying for.
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
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don't worry
when the see what kind of people have avatars that have the word Canadian in them
they'll think we are all like that
...they'll have that wall up in no time
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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How 1970s of you. Most of us have left that world behind us, a long time ago.



...in control of the overpopulated World's fresh, drinkable water supply. It will make oil look silly in a century or so.

That's a real base of power. I believe we've already made deals about it's disposal some time ago with our FNA Amigos.
 

Curious Cdn

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 22, 2015
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If Trump becomes president we should close our borders and seize all American assets and corporate interests in Canada.
Plus make all Americans living in Canada wear badges and report to authorities weekly.
Ya, that should do it.
Oh, wait.
We'll need to have them get started on that wall on their northern boarder. The one they're paying for.

Absolutely! Where can I vote for that?

That's a real base of power. I believe we've already made deals about it's disposal some time ago with our FNA Amigos.

Only some of it is that mobile. Most of it is too hard to divert south into conventional waterways. Most of the fresh wster is stored on the Canadian Shield and that doesn't connect to the Missouri-Mississippi.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Trum will be the first president of Fortress North America, a place with billions of gallons of fresh water, free fresh water. One water one land together with stand, the new anthem, it will have to be rtranslated in to six or seven new official languages.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Trump will be blown up by an IED somewhere around New York City by Christmas.

Why Christmas? Will he president at the time or runnibg from Hillaries associates? They will install another popular Trump Clone, different hair, a bit taller, and genderful. And the FNA will prosper despite the debt. I'm probably wrong.

The iceage might begin to be noticed this year, lot's of losses in frozen crops to date

The frozen ship load of warmistas trapped by ice in the summer. That is sign from a higher power.

The climate they hold so dear is mocking them.
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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Why Christmas? Will he president at the time or runnibg from Hillaries associates? They will install another popular Trump Clone, different hair, a bit taller, and genderful. And the FNA will prosper despite the debt. I'm probably wrong.

The iceage might begin to be noticed this year, lot's of losses in frozen crops to date

He will have been President for about month ... then Martial law will be declared, the Joint Chiefs of Staff will take over the executive function of government, 10,000 heavily armed militias will crawl out if the woodwork, the Southern States will succeed, Texas will succeed from the South and the North. Day to day law and order will be maintained by heavily armed private citizens perfoming arbitrary executions for range of offences from robbery to vandalism to homosexuality.

Chavez and Saddam and Qaddafi and Assad voted for that
how did that work out?

They just lacked Elan! Anyway, the Americans only took out one of those four.