Daesh vs Islamic State

Mowich

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 25, 2005
16,649
998
113
75
Eagle Creek
What's in a name? Islamic State vs. Daesh

WASHINGTON — The U.S. ambassador to Canada is using yet another name — "Daesh" — for the multi-monikered terrorist group known variously as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) and the Islamic State.

Politicians are increasingly using the D-word for two simple reasons: to strip the group of its credibility and to steer away from the Islam-versus-the-West dynamic it apparently craves.

"I'm using the term 'Daesh' now, instead of ISIL," Bruce Heyman said in an interview.

"I think it's unfair to refer to Islam, and it's totally inappropriate to think of it as a state — so anything calling it the 'Islamic State' is wrong."

Heyman used the Arabic acronym in a speech Tuesday to a Toronto conference on Canadian business opportunities in the U.S., which began with a moment of silence in honour of the victims of last week's Paris attacks.

The wording might even strike some as trivial, given the bloodshed. But the evolution of the group's name offers a window into its history, its place in the Arab world and the bewilderment it has provoked in the West.

Arabs who oppose the group customarily use a version of Daesh, as do European politicians and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, among others. Although he usually prefers ISIL, President Barack Obama used the term a few times at this week's G20 summit in Turkey.

The group apparently hates it so much it threatened to cut out the tongues of those who use it, The Associated Press reported last year when the group seized the Iraq city of Mosul.

That's because it sounds like an insult, resembling the Arabic word "daes," which refers to something that stomps, or crushes. It's considerably less important-sounding than "Islamic State," which Egyptian religious authorities have pleaded for western journalists to stop using.

The group's core mythology relies on being perceived as both Islamic and a state, and the modern-day heir to the original 1,400-year-old caliphates.

The group began with Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian jihadist who travelled to Afghanistan on the tail end of the war with the Soviets. He met Osama bin Laden there. He later founded a group called Unity and Jihad, which became Al-Qaida in Iraq when he pledged loyalty to bin Laden's group during the war against U.S. forces there.

It split with al-Qaida after al-Zarqawi's death. The group adopted its more recent names from the Arabic, "Dawlah al-Islamiyah fi 'l-'Iraq wa-sh-Sham," as it seized territory in Syria and Iraq.

Confusion over the ISIS-versus-ISIL acronym stems from that last part — al-Sham.

That's a historic Islamic term for the land bordering the eastern Mediterranean, including Syria. Al-Sham stems from the words for, "left hand." That's opposed to Yemen, which stems from, "right hand." In the centre? The holy land of Mecca.

The closest traditional English equivalent for al-Sham is "the Levant," hence the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, or ISIL.
In a recent blog post, Alice Guthrie, an Arabic translator living in England, advocated forthe use of Daesh earlier this year, and criticized the world's English-language media for doing a poor job explaining the term.

"At the secular level, satire is a crucial weapon in the fight against these maniacs," Guthrie writes.

"So the insult picked up on by Daesh is not just that the name makes them sound little, silly, and powerless, but that it implies they are monsters, and that they are made-up."

Alexander Panetta
Canadian Press - ‎November‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
I see it ... now how do you say it?

May sound offensive - especially after heavy loss of life - but it makes sense to make jokes of them and laugh at them. Taking them seriously is what they want. Heck, it worked for Londoners....

 
Last edited:

Mowich

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 25, 2005
16,649
998
113
75
Eagle Creek
Somehow I don't think ISIS gives a rats *** what I call them.

Well unless you are in direct contact with them, I have to agree Glacier. :smile: What the MSM, social media, and world leaders calls them might be another matter entirely.

I see it ... now how do you say it?

May sound offensive - especially after heavy loss of life - but it makes sense to make jokes of them and laugh at them. Taking them seriously is what they want. Heck, it worked for Londoners....


"now how do you say it?"..................sounds like dash to me when I looked up the pronunciation, wolf.
 

Glacier

Electoral Member
Apr 24, 2015
360
0
16
Okanagan
Well unless you are in direct contact with them, I have to agree Glacier. :smile: What the MSM, social media, and world leaders calls them might be another matter entirely.
I have not looked into this new trend at all, but I'm highly skeptical that this is indeed offensive to ISIS. It probably means "I testify that there's no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger" in Arabic or something, and now we are all unknowingly becoming Muslims. I prefer the term goat ****ers, which seems a lot more offensive.
 

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
32,230
45
48
65
What's in a name? Islamic State vs. Daesh

WASHINGTON — The U.S. ambassador to Canada is using yet another name — "Daesh" — for the multi-monikered terrorist group known variously as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) and the Islamic State.

Politicians are increasingly using the D-word for two simple reasons: to strip the group of its credibility and to steer away from the Islam-versus-the-West dynamic it apparently craves.

"I'm using the term 'Daesh' now, instead of ISIL," Bruce Heyman said in an interview.

"I think it's unfair to refer to Islam, and it's totally inappropriate to think of it as a state — so anything calling it the 'Islamic State' is wrong."

Heyman used the Arabic acronym in a speech Tuesday to a Toronto conference on Canadian business opportunities in the U.S., which began with a moment of silence in honour of the victims of last week's Paris attacks.

The wording might even strike some as trivial, given the bloodshed. But the evolution of the group's name offers a window into its history, its place in the Arab world and the bewilderment it has provoked in the West.

Arabs who oppose the group customarily use a version of Daesh, as do European politicians and U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, among others. Although he usually prefers ISIL, President Barack Obama used the term a few times at this week's G20 summit in Turkey.

The group apparently hates it so much it threatened to cut out the tongues of those who use it, The Associated Press reported last year when the group seized the Iraq city of Mosul.

That's because it sounds like an insult, resembling the Arabic word "daes," which refers to something that stomps, or crushes. It's considerably less important-sounding than "Islamic State," which Egyptian religious authorities have pleaded for western journalists to stop using.

The group's core mythology relies on being perceived as both Islamic and a state, and the modern-day heir to the original 1,400-year-old caliphates.

The group began with Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian jihadist who travelled to Afghanistan on the tail end of the war with the Soviets. He met Osama bin Laden there. He later founded a group called Unity and Jihad, which became Al-Qaida in Iraq when he pledged loyalty to bin Laden's group during the war against U.S. forces there.

It split with al-Qaida after al-Zarqawi's death. The group adopted its more recent names from the Arabic, "Dawlah al-Islamiyah fi 'l-'Iraq wa-sh-Sham," as it seized territory in Syria and Iraq.

Confusion over the ISIS-versus-ISIL acronym stems from that last part — al-Sham.

That's a historic Islamic term for the land bordering the eastern Mediterranean, including Syria. Al-Sham stems from the words for, "left hand." That's opposed to Yemen, which stems from, "right hand." In the centre? The holy land of Mecca.

The closest traditional English equivalent for al-Sham is "the Levant," hence the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, or ISIL.
In a recent blog post, Alice Guthrie, an Arabic translator living in England, advocated forthe use of Daesh earlier this year, and criticized the world's English-language media for doing a poor job explaining the term.

"At the secular level, satire is a crucial weapon in the fight against these maniacs," Guthrie writes.

"So the insult picked up on by Daesh is not just that the name makes them sound little, silly, and powerless, but that it implies they are monsters, and that they are made-up."

Alexander Panetta
Canadian Press - ‎November‎ ‎18‎, ‎2015


wouldn't want to offend anyone, that's for sure.
 

Locutus

Adorable Deplorable
Jun 18, 2007
32,230
45
48
65
Attention Internet: People who celebrate pictures of civilians they've killed as well as pictures of their own friend's murdered corpses don't give a sh!t what you call them.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,429
1,668
113

Arabs who oppose the group customarily use a version of Daesh, as do European politicians


I've never heard British politicians use that term. Our lot just call them ISIS.

The British TV media, though, such as Sky New, BBC News and ITV News, like calling the group "so-called Islamic State", a term that no other person on Earth uses for the terrorists e.g. "Russia has today stepped up airstrikes against so-called Islamic State"; "We do not yet know if the Bamako hostage-taker have links to so-called Islamic State." The reason why they use the term "so-called Islamic State" - a term they have completely invented and that nobody else on the planet uses - is because, as we all know, these terrorists have nothing to do with Islam.