Scotland wants to talk independence.


Spade
Free Thinker
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#31
Thought I'd look up a haggis recipe for Burns Night but the local Overwaitea was out of sheep's lungs, heart, liver, and stomach. Who'd've thought that?!
 
Blackleaf
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#32
With its military, scientific and cultural achievements, the Union of England, Scotland and Wales is history's greatest success story. To let blinkered, mean-spirited and unscrupulous politicians destroy it would be unforgivable


By Dominic Sandbrook
27th January 2012
Daily Mail


The UK has been the world's most successful nation-state

Quote:

A few days ago, a survey by the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) found that English voters, like many of their Scottish counterparts, are falling out of love with the UK.


According to the IPPR, fully 40 per cent of English voters say that Englishness is more important to them than Britishness.

Meanwhile, almost one in four English voters would like to wave farewell to the Scots, while four-fifths support the so-called ‘devo max’ option, which would give Scotland complete financial autonomy without completely severing the Union.


Since only 31 per cent of English voters say they are ‘very attached’ to the UK, it is not hard to see why, despite the polls, Mr Salmond is so bullish.


For even if his countrymen fail to deliver the death blow in 2014, some commentators predict that the English will eventually pull the plug themselves, condemning the UK to the dustbin of history.

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The plain and unarguable truth is that the British experiment has been the most influential partnership in history, banishing old enmities and creating the most successful nation-state the world has ever seen.


All of us — whether English, Welsh or Scottish — like to tell ourselves that we have always walked tall on the world stage.


Yet the reality is that until our nations joined hands, we cut minor, even irrelevant figures, lurking anxiously on the European periphery.


By contrast, the list of achievements of the UK is simply astonishing.

Working together, men and women from Aylesbury, Aberystwyth and Aberdeen created the world’s first industrial nation, an economic powerhouse that redrew the limits of possibility and prosperity.


Our generals, explorers and missionaries built the biggest empire the world had ever seen, often with Scotsmen in the vanguard.

Historians estimate that in the half-century after the Act of Union, some 30,000 Scots settled in the American colonies alone.


Canada, Australia and New Zealand are as much Scottish creations as they are English, while the intrepid Scot David Livingstone became one of the most famous explorers in history.


One estimate suggests that one out of three British colonial governors after 1850 was Scottish — a clear sign that Great Britain Ltd’s supposedly junior partner was punching well above its weight.


As for the Welsh, their contribution belied their nation’s small size. The regiment known today as the South Wales Borderers, for instance, served with distinction during the Victorian era Sikh Wars, the Indian Mutiny and, most famously, the Zulu War, where Welsh heroism at the Battle of Rorke’s Drift became justly legendary.

Quote:

Over centuries, British identity — which had not even existed before 1707 — became associated with institutions such as the monarchy, Parliament, the Royal Navy and even the BBC. But there was more to it than that.

What brought us together was not just our shared respect for the rule of law, our love of free speech, our quirky sense of humour and our fondness for inventing ever more elaborate ball games.

It was our sense of ourselves as a special community, jumbled up together on a small, rain-swept Atlantic island, yet looking boldly outwards, unafraid to confront the challenges of the world.

For when they stood together at Waterloo, Omdurman, the Somme and Dunkirk, the men of England, Wales and Scotland knew that they were one people, united by ties of history, language, values and blood.

Quote:

Of course, the UK must always keep evolving. Even that supreme Englishman, Winston Churchill, who served for a long time as MP for Dundee, predicted that one day ‘a federal system will be established in these islands which will give Wales and Scotland the control within proper limits of their own Welsh and Scottish affairs’.

With hindsight, you realise that devolution should have come earlier, thus strangling Celtic nationalism at birth.


Yet the irony is that today, it is actually the English who suffer the greatest democratic deficit, lacking any meaningful power to govern their own affairs.


Indeed, last week’s IPPR survey found that 45 per cent of English voters feel that Scotland gets ‘more than its fair share of public spending’. While 79 per cent would like to see Scottish MPs banned from voting on English affairs (the so-called ‘West Lothian question’) and 36 per cent would like to see a devolved English parliament.



Quote:

As men and women of Great Britain, we have achieved great things. From the enterprise and ingenuity of the Industrial Revolution to the shared sacrifice of the Somme; from the Victorian railways to the D-Day beaches; from religious toleration to the rule of law, we Britons changed the world.


To lose all that, to sacrifice our shared history and common interests, would be utterly unconscionable, leaving us all culturally and economically weaker, smaller, sadder and poorer.

As it happens, the man who put it best was Scotland’s national poet, the Ayrshire Ploughman who, in a victory for decency and common sense, pipped the blood-thirsty William Wallace to the title of ‘Greatest Scot’ a few years ago.

Robert Burns was indeed a great Scotsman. But he was also a great Briton. And at a time when Britain’s very survival seems in grave peril, his words still ring clear and true:


Be Briton still to Britain true
Among oursel’s united;
For never but by British hands
Maun British wrangs be righted.

Read more: Scottish independence debate: Is this the end of Britain? | Mail Online







Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Thought I'd look up a haggis recipe for Burns Night but the local Overwaitea was out of sheep's lungs, heart, liver, and stomach. Who'd've thought that?!

Yeah. Haggis is made mainly out of sheep's lung with a bit of sheeps' heart and liver and minced with with onion, oatmeal, suet, spices, and salt, mixed with stock, and often encased in the sheep's stomach. It's also delicious. I have it quite often. I usually have Hall's haggis.

Last edited by Blackleaf; Jan 28th, 2012 at 09:37 AM..
 
petros
Avatar
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Thought I'd look up a haggis recipe for Burns Night but the local Overwaitea was out of sheep's lungs, heart, liver, and stomach. Who'd've thought that?!

Robbie Burns day... Not quite the drunken mayhem of St Patricks day. This could easily be remedied by the Scots offering up a plaid beer?
 
darkbeaver
Republican
Avatar
+1
#34
With its military, scientific and cultural achievements, the Union of England, Scotland and Wales is history's greatest success story. To let blinkered, mean-spirited and unscrupulous politicians destroy it would be unforgivable

Blinkered, mean spirited and unscrupulous politicians united England Scotland and Wales Lord Blackleaf. What you suggest might be the problem is in fact exactly whats needed to rise again. Why don't you just put down the rebel mob? Cuz the sun has set for good on the British Empire at least since the end of the #2 world war which you still owe on incidently. Scotland will piss all over you and leave the marriage, and there's nothing you can do but drink till you drop,Hundreds of years of spousal abuse is just too much. I guess it wasn't love eh.
 
Blackleaf
Avatar
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

A cry for Scottish independence...

SCOTS WHA HAE
Scots, wha hae wi' Wallace bled,
Scots wham Bruce has aften led,
Welcome to your gory bed,
Or to victory !

Wha for Scotland's king and law
Freedom's sword will strongly draw,
Freeman stand, or freeman fa',
Let him follow me !

-Robert Burns, 1793


Don't fall into the trap of thinking that, because he wrote this poem, Burns was a Scottish nationalist. He was nothing of the sort. As I've already proven, he wrote of his love for Britain in letters and poems.

He says nothing in all his poems and 600 songs about the Jacobite rebellion which took place just a generation before him. His praise for William Wallace and Robert the Bruce in the above poem was more to do with opposing "tyranny" than seeking outright independence.

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Blinkered, mean spirited and unscrupulous politicians united England Scotland and Wales Lord Blackleaf.

As we all know, the Union of England, Scotland and Wales was one of the wisest decisions ever made. As independent nations all three were insignificant little nothings off the coast of the European continent. United as the UK the three became the richest and most powerful nations on the planet, at the head of the largest and richest empire the world has ever seen, an empire which the Scots very much helped to create and profit from.

Quote:

Cuz the sun has set for good on the
British Empire at least since the end of the #2 world war which you still owe on
incidently.


I don't see what the British Empire has got to do with Scottish independence. And you should be grateful for Britain's actions during WWII. If it wasn't for Britain the whole of Europe and maybe other parts of the world would be speaking German now.

Quote:


Scotland will piss all over you and leave
the marriage, and there's nothing you can do but drink till you
drop


How exactly would Scotland becoming independent bother the English? The English are MORE in favour of Scottish independence than the Scots are.

And if Scotland becomes independent and then it suddenly becomes apparent that it cannot survive on its own and its economy starts struggling as a result, as many people believe will be the case, then it'd be the English having the last laugh.


Quote:

Hundreds of years of spousal abuse is just too

Quote:

much. I guess it wasn't love eh.

[/QUOTE]


"Poor old Scotland, treated badly by those nasty, evil English."

Grow up, pal. The Union has been very good for Scotland. Thanks in large part to the wealth Scotland gained from the Empire which it largely created, Scotland within the United Kingdom became a very wealthy nation, and was part of the wealthiest nation on the planet. This is a far cry from the economic backwater Scotland was just before it united with England and Wales.

Of course, the whole reason why Scotland joined the Union in the first place was to become wealthy. It was so poor at the start of the Eighteenth Century that it tried to start a Scottish Empire in Central America. When this failed spectacularly it then decided to unify with England and Wales, create a new Kingdom of Great Britain and try and create a British Empire and get rich from the resultant profits. And get rich off the resultant profits it did.
Last edited by Blackleaf; Jan 29th, 2012 at 10:59 AM..
 
Spade
Free Thinker
Avatar
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by BlackleafView Post

As we all know, the Union of England, Scotland and Wales was one of the wisest decisions ever made. As independent nation all three were insignificant little nothings off the coast of the European continent. United as the UK the three became the richest and most powerful nations on the planet, at the head of the largest and richest empire the world has ever seen, an empire which the Scots very much helped to create and profit from.
[/B]

Empire was not so grand!
--
 
Blackleaf
Avatar
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Empire was not so grand!
--

It's lucky for you that Britain did start an empire. Otherwise there'd be no Canada now. Canadians, like Americans and the peoples of other nations which were created by the British Empire, should be grateful to that empire.
 
Spade
Free Thinker
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#38
O, I could learn French.

By the by, are you denying the crimes against humanity committed in the creation of empire?
 
lone wolf
Free Thinker
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#39
How would we know? We'd be living another reality - speaking either English (American) or French
 
MHz
+1
#40
I hear Iceland is looking for 'friend' who are willing to 'buck the system'. Perhaps together they can put together some business that is in the sale of huge amounts of unlimited electricity. There are a lots of 'Scots' living in foreign nations so income just from donations would keep them goings for awhile in their bailout from England and Wales and their debt structure.
Having Scotland 'disappear from the pages of time' in name would make all the Whiskey named after them rise substantially in price as all would become collectors items and the new brands will be tried by some just because the taste 'might be different'.
 
Spade
Free Thinker
#41
Good 'un, MHz. I am going to "cellulose tape" your reply to the monitor.
 

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