Was WWII about what we were told it was about?


bluebyrd35
No Party Affiliation
#151
"Fighting for Freedom is the belief, most personnel entering services hope is the truth. Canadians (during war II, supposedly the war to end all wars, for the second time) believed this to be so...both volunteers and the conscripted.

With the revolution in access to information, it is no longer possible to hide underlying motives. ie Weapons of Mass Destruction, Water-boarding and those who feel torture of fellow humans is necessary. It is sooo odd that wars occurring for human rights, are most often in the countries of the oil rich!!. Even the slowly emerging countries are no long naive. Even very young children in the west recognize blatant propaganda.

Most historians believe the Treat of Versailles was the root cause of WWII. The treat laid the fault of WWI totally on Germany, and was an act of revenge rather than anything else.

World War II actually started with a Serbian shooting an Austrian. So nothing is really how it seems. It is like several witnesses to an automobile accident. No two will match up.

Ooops sorry, I knew that. Tired from shopping all day.
Last edited by bluebyrd35; Nov 25th, 2011 at 05:41 PM..
 
Spade
Free Thinker
#152
Not Australian. Austro-Hungarian
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+1
#153
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDBView Post

History isn't an exact science. Any historian would tell you that. Are you trying to suggest we shouldnt even attempt to find out what happened because we'll never know anything 100%?

Well, it has been said that we must know our history so that we don't repeat it. We have libraries full ofhistory and we haven't learned a gawd damn thing. So tell me again why we need to know our biased history and what it is good for.

Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Not Australian. Austro-Hungarian

They all look alike.
 
SLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#154
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Not Australian. Austro-Hungarian

Potato, tomato.
 
Spade
Free Thinker
+1
#155
Brit, Schmidt
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#156
Quote: Originally Posted by bluebyrd35View Post

"
World War II actually started with a Serbian shooting an Australian. So nothing is really how it seems. It is like several witnesses to an automobile accident. No two will match up.

THAT sounds more like W.W. 1......................an Arch duke was the way I heard it. W.W.2 started when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, methinks.
 
Spade
Free Thinker
+1
#157
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

THAT sounds more like W.W. 1......................an Arch duke was the way I heard it. W.W.2 started when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, methinks.

Yep, WWI; nope, Poland
 
darkbeaver
Republican
+1
#158


"History is fables agreed upon." -- Francois Voltaire, French philosopher and author, 1694--1778
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#159
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

Yep, WWI; nope, Poland

Yep, Poland. My memory is good but it's short!
 
bluebyrd35
No Party Affiliation
#160
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

THAT sounds more like W.W. 1......................an Arch duke was the way I heard it. W.W.2 started when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, methinks.

Sorry again, damn, I'm going for a nap. Yes it was WWI where a Serb killed an Austrian and WWII was Hitler invading Poland with Russia following 15 days after.
 
Spade
Free Thinker
#161
True, but there are certain facts.
British slave trade
Caste system in Britain
Slavery in Canada
American slavery and segregation
Women as non-persons in Canada
American wars with first nations
The Shoah
Japanese internment
Etc.

My reply to DB
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#162
There is only one mass genocide, of many, wherein proper objective investigation is more often than not met with religious indignation. Indeed the Bengal (four million starved by Churchill) Genocide gets no public relations at all and is not marketed whatever and has not made a fraction of the profit that the Holocaust has even though the victims were most horribly starved to death en masse and it occurred in WW2. It does not get one headline per decade but it cost humanity two thirds of the reported final count of European Jews.
Who are the most worthy humans on earth? Why do so many suffer and so few receive help.
 
Corduroy
+3
#163
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I realized that you were trying to start a debate. That is why I deflected to a fictitious movie. I see no point in debating opinions.

Yes we have some idea about some things that happened in the past but most of what has come down is tainted by bias. We know the Mohawk and Algonquin lived in the past because they still live in the present as do the Brits and French. None of us, however, has a clear picture or understanding of what really happened back then because none of us was there to witness it. As has been pointed out many times, if there are 10 people who witness an event, not one story told by those 10 people will agree as to the details relating to their memory of what happened. Memory is selective. So we may have a crude idea of some of the events and people involved in historical events but we do not have a clear idea of any of the details.

Uh-huh so history isn't all BS now. Make up your mind Cliffy.

And we know the Mohawk and Algonquin lived in the past because they still live in the present... as do the Brits and French? Are you seriously so daft as to believe that's an intelligent argument?

Well, let's look at the French, shall we? The French exist in Canada now so they must have in past, like in the year 500. We know the French were here in the year 500 because they're here now.

Makes sense right?

Do you know how you really know when the French came to Canada? History. That **** was written down and compiled and the stories were past on. History isn't so much laden with bias as it is skewed by perspective. Historians take these accounts, evaluate their sources and try to recreate those events. We don't know for sure what happened, but that's not because we weren't there. It's because the story is incomplete. In fact, often times we know a hell of a lot more about what happened then the people who were there.

Your example of ten people telling a different story of the same event illustrates precisely the use of history. Who knows more about the event? One person who was telling his story or someone not there hearing all ten stories? The more perspectives you get, the better your understanding. You would get more information from the multiple stories, corroborating and synthesizing the stories and evaluating the accuracy of a source.

Do you know all the details of the decisions that led up to the Iraq War? Well some of you pretend you do, but in reality most of us, even though we were around for the event, probably know less about it then future generations will. We know more about the Second World War now than most people knew at the time it was being fought.

That's how we figure things out. That's how most people gain knowledge in their day to day life. What you have done is decided that since this method cannot be 100% accurate and can be subjected to manipulation, the whole concept should be thrown out. But there are things that can be known this way. Intelligent people can see through the bias and evaluate the evidence. We couldn't even be having this discussion about history if we didn't have a historical base to work from. How do we even know the Second World War occurred?
Last edited by Corduroy; Nov 25th, 2011 at 07:35 PM..
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#164
Quote: Originally Posted by CorduroyView Post

Uh-huh so history isn't all BS now. Make up your mind Cliffy.

And we know the Mohawk and Algonquin lived in the past because they still live in the present... as do the Brits and French? Are you seriously so daft as to believe that's an intelligent argument?
.................

That's how we figure things out. That's how most people gain knowledge in their day to day life. What you have done is decided that since this method cannot be 100% accurate and can be subjected to manipulation, the whole concept should be thrown out. But there are things that can be known this way. Intelligent people can see through the bias and evaluate the evidence. We couldn't even be having this discussion about history if we didn't have a historical base to work from. How do we even know the Second World War occurred?

Well, perhaps you think you know something from history. I admire that. I know something too... that it really has little relevance to me in my personal life but some things are useful to bring up when discussing things with others who believe in such things. And yes, I am daft. After all, I believe the reality that most of us live in is a program, a computer (the mind) generated holographic image that has little to nothing to do with the reality of who and what we are, that is based on a colossal lie of biblical proportions. It is really difficult for me to have a discussion with someone who thinks the Matrix is real.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
+1
#165
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Well, perhaps you think you know something from history. I admire that. I know something too... that it really has little relevance to me in my personal life but some things are useful to bring up when discussing things with others who believe in such things. And yes, I am daft. After all, I believe the reality that most of us live in is a program, a computer (the mind) generated holographic image that has little to nothing to do with the reality of who and what we are, that is based on a colossal lie of biblical proportions. It is really difficult for me to have a discussion with someone who thinks the Matrix is real.

Cliffy - You brought the Bible into your philosophy.
 
CDNBear
#166
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Well, perhaps you think you know something from history. I admire that. I know something too... that it really has little relevance to me in my personal life but some things are useful to bring up when discussing things with others who believe in such things. And yes, I am daft. After all, I believe the reality that most of us live in is a program, a computer (the mind) generated holographic image that has little to nothing to do with the reality of who and what we are, that is based on a colossal lie of biblical proportions. It is really difficult for me to have a discussion with someone who thinks the Matrix is real.

Ummm,
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#167
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Ummm,

Like I said, who said I ever came down?
 
CDNBear
#168
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Like I said, who said I ever came down?

From the mother ship? Trip? Mountain top? Tree?
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+1
#169
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Cliffy - You brought the Bible into your philosophy.

So? It is the biggest lie and one that the Matrix is based on.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

From the mother ship? Trip? Mountain top? Tree?

Yes.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#170
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

So? It is the biggest lie and one that the Matrix is based on.

Just yours, not mine.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+2
#171
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Just yours, not mine.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me. I just state what I believe. For some strange reason, some people are offended by it. They think it is an attack on their beliefs. It isn't.
 
DaSleeper
+2
#172
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

From the mother ship? Trip? Mountain top? Tree?

Naaah.....he's still trippin'
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

ya, I smoked enough pot in the 60s and 70s to get a blue whale wasted, and I'm normal.

 
SLM
No Party Affiliation
+2
#173
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Well, perhaps you think you know something from history. I admire that. I know something too... that it really has little relevance to me in my personal life but some things are useful to bring up when discussing things with others who believe in such things. And yes, I am daft. After all, I believe the reality that most of us live in is a program, a computer (the mind) generated holographic image that has little to nothing to do with the reality of who and what we are, that is based on a colossal lie of biblical proportions. It is really difficult for me to have a discussion with someone who thinks the Matrix is real.

Reality? Meh, doesn't matter, I'm going for the steak dinner.
 
Corduroy
#174
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Well, perhaps you think you know something from history. I admire that. I know something too... that it really has little relevance to me in my personal life but some things are useful to bring up when discussing things with others who believe in such things. And yes, I am daft. After all, I believe the reality that most of us live in is a program, a computer (the mind) generated holographic image that has little to nothing to do with the reality of who and what we are, that is based on a colossal lie of biblical proportions. It is really difficult for me to have a discussion with someone who thinks the Matrix is real.

Adjective

daft (comparative (external - login to view) dafter (external - login to view), superlative (external - login to view) daftest (external - login to view))
  1. insane (external - login to view), mad (external - login to view)
  2. silly (external - login to view)
  3. stupid (external - login to view)
daft - Wiktionary (external - login to view)
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#175

Matrix - The pill - YouTube



I took the red pill.
 
Corduroy
#176
The Matrix was a movie.It's fiction. Neo's real name is Keanu Reeves. He's been in several other movies since the Matrix trilogy. He didn't take the red pill. He is an actor. It's like pretending.

Keanu Reeves - IMDb (external - login to view)
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#177
Quote: Originally Posted by CorduroyView Post

The Matrix was a movie.It's fiction. Neo's real name is Keanu Reeves. He's been in several other movies since the Matrix trilogy. He didn't take the red pill. He is an actor. It's like pretending.

Keanu Reeves - IMDb (external - login to view)

I'm crazy, not stupid. I took the red pill (metaphorically speaking) two decades before the script for that movie was written. I wrote a novel about it before the movie came out because people find it easier to digest if it looks like fiction. It isn't. The Matrix is a fiction like the bible is. It is truth couched in fable, metaphor and allegory.
 
DaSleeper
+2
#178

Napoleon XIV 39They39re coming to take me away39 - YouTube

 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+2
#179
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

Napoleon XIV Theyre coming to take me away - YouTube

They haven't come yet and I have been out here for close to 5 decades, teasing and harassing them all this time.

Actually, an old indian medicine man taught me a long time ago how to become invisible. I have just successfully avoided capture. The only way they will ever find me is when my rotting corpse is too ripe to ignore.


a half hour later

Hey! Where did everybody go? Come back and fight like dogs.
Oh Crap! I really did become invisible.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#180
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Hey! Where did everybody go? Come back and fight like dogs.
Oh Crap! I really did become invisible.

I won't abandon you, Cliff, but I think with your recent natterings everyone fled before the boys with the butterfly nets arrived!
 

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