Was WWII about what we were told it was about?


wulfie68
No Party Affiliation
#91
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

The mind does not discriminate where the information comes from.

Wrong.

Our ability to think and reason teaches us to do things like be critical of sources: even little kids learn not to trust some one who lies to or misleads them on a regular basis.

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Most people get their scientific information (those that read it anyways) from the National Inquirer and like sources.

I can't say. All I can go on is personal experience where most people I know don't live inside the plot of the movie "Men in Black" amd most DON'T read the National Inquirer; they gain their scientific information from better quality sources, either published, or on the web. Maybe thats the way people are in the interior of BC (my experience again makes me sceptical of that) but you are making a sweeping generalization with no back up information besides your own prejudices.

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Once information, true or false, is filed in the cabinet of the mind, the mind no longer discerns what the source was.

Again wrong, as stated previously.

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Any information accessed from the file cabinet is then filtered through our belief systems and prejudices. The truth is really irrelevant if it doesn't fit in with our world view. Whatever you believe about the WWI or WWII, no amout of facts will ever change your mind, that is just human nature.

This is the only part of your diatribe that contains any semblance to fact but its still not there. Yes, we filter information through our beliefs, be they in science, historical record, eye witness accounts, a divine being or whatever but that doesn't mean everyone's filters are that far out of whack. I read many of those same comicbooks, Sgt Rock, Wierd War, The Losers and what have you, but I knew they were stories: fiction set in a mostly fictional setting, with only the most superficial connection to real events. I also spent a lot of time in my school library, as a kid, going through a lot of WW II history books (it started with fascination with guns/tanks/airplanes when I was young and the desire to learn more about the events themselves grew as I got older). Sometimes (not often) there was contradictory information and I was able to make decisions about did I NEED the contradictions resolved, and if so, which source(s) did I find to be more reliable... often by reading more sources of information. Something I KNOW you did not do with your original post; instead you are prjecting and appear to be guilty of acting as you claim others do.

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I have read enough contradictory information about so many of our sacred cows that I can truly say that I do not know the truth about any of it, other than what I have personally experienced. To me, everything else is just someone else' opinion.

Well I would consider the accuracy of your sources pretty carefully: if they're anything like the tripe in the OP, you're just imbibing more crap that is on the same level or lower than the National Inquirer... as you claim so many others do.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#92
Isn't it nice that we are free to express our opinions? I hope you feel better.

Also, you missed the point of posting the OP in the first place.
Last edited by Cliffy; Nov 23rd, 2011 at 04:25 PM..
 
wulfie68
No Party Affiliation
+1
#93
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Isn't it nice that we are free to express our opinions? I hope you feel better.

Also, you missed the point of posting the OP in the first place.

Well, if by point, you mean a critical analysis of why our nation, among so many others, got involved in the War, then you're too late: I've been doing that since I was in my teens. Nothing new has come to light to me from this thread, save that there people who are absolute hyprocites when it comes to hiding behind freedom of expression: just because my grandfather (and so many others) fought to give you the freedom to express erroneous assumptions and call them fact, doesn't mean I have to let this type of crap go unchallenged. The right to express does go both ways.
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#94
WW 2 was literally a smashing success nobodies grandfather did a ****ing thing to change any other thing otherwise we wouldn't have done the same ****ing things constantly since the end of that war which never ended. Where the hell is grampy now and why can't the blind deaf old fool recognize the same goddamn fascist bastards in power now that he says he saw so clearly defeated by the forces of righteousness then? He failed, they all failed, they all got sucked in by the lords and ladies of the banks.
 
Highball
#95
I'm not a big history student but I do remember speaking to a retired WWII German Luftwaffe JU-52 Transport pilot who told me of many trips into Italy to pickup wooden crates of navigation instruments that had a General Motors stamp on the bill of lading (document of contents) and also hauling materials from Sweden in GE containers. Later, in the military I did learn the US carried on a secret trade with the AXIS powers all during the war. Then later attempted to conceal the facts. Many small parts and electronics items were being manufactured in the US probably under a "Defeat the Nazi's" banner.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#96
Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68View Post

Well, if by point, you mean a critical analysis of why our nation, among so many others, got involved in the War, then you're too late: I've been doing that since I was in my teens. Nothing new has come to light to me from this thread, save that there people who are absolute hyprocites when it comes to hiding behind freedom of expression: just because my grandfather (and so many others) fought to give you the freedom to express erroneous assumptions and call them fact, doesn't mean I have to let this type of crap go unchallenged. The right to express does go both ways.

Where have I stated that the quotes in the OP constituted any truth. I have stated that I posted it to stimulate debate and to show an alternative view of history. You should wear looser underwear if it takes so little to get them all in a bunch.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#97
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Where have I stated that the quotes in the OP constituted any truth. I have stated that I posted it to stimulate debate and to show an alternative view of history. You should wear looser underwear if it takes so little to get them all in a bunch.

Best read what you wrote and posted. It comes across that you believed it.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
+1
#98
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Best read what you wrote and posted. It comes across that you believed it.

Yup! I posted this:
There are two sides to every story. We only got one. Controversy stimulates debate. I don't know what happened since I wasn't there but I have a healthy skepticism about what I've been told is the truth.

That is proof positive that I thought the OP was the truth.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#99
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Yup! I posted this:
There are two sides to every story. We only got one. Controversy stimulates debate. I don't know what happened since I wasn't there but I have a healthy skepticism about what I've been told is the truth.

That is proof positive that I thought the OP was the truth.

You're a trolling now aren't you?
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#100
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

You're a trolling now aren't you?

No. I would like you to show me where I said I believed the OP was the truth.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#101
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

No. I would like you to show me where I said I believed the OP was the truth.

There are many false quotes also attributed to WC in order to support him as a hero. What isn't recorded is how he fled London to the west of London BEFORE each time the German planes came over the UK. He knew precisely when the raids were coming and chose NOT to be with his people - unlike Hitler who stood in his bunker the duration of the war with his people.

History is upside down back the front, as it is today.

Did you write the above??
 
MHz
#102
Quote: Originally Posted by CorduroyView Post

This sort of nonsense on this forum would be greatly reduced if people did more fact checking. This is the internet. Looking up information is kinda the point.

When I read things like this the question of their veracity is the first thing that pops into my mind. It should be the first thing that pops into yours too. Simply Google the quotes in the OP. Can you find an independent source for them? Have they ever been quoted on a website not devoted to conspiracy theories?

Feel free to debunk everything Hitler says in this speech.

The Hitler Speech They Don39t Want You To Hear - YouTube

 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#103
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

There are many false quotes also attributed to WC in order to support him as a hero. What isn't recorded is how he fled London to the west of London BEFORE each time the German planes came over the UK. He knew precisely when the raids were coming and chose NOT to be with his people - unlike Hitler who stood in his bunker the duration of the war with his people.

History is upside down back the front, as it is today.

Did you write the above??

Is diving into a bunker particularly brave?
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#104
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

There are many false quotes also attributed to WC in order to support him as a hero. What isn't recorded is how he fled London to the west of London BEFORE each time the German planes came over the UK. He knew precisely when the raids were coming and chose NOT to be with his people - unlike Hitler who stood in his bunker the duration of the war with his people.

History is upside down back the front, as it is today.

Did you write the above??

No. I only wrote that I received it in an email.
 
Goober
Free Thinker
#105
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

No. I only wrote that I received it in an email.

It seems that you have learned from SJP - It also fits with your philosphy - So why would anyone think you disagreed with the OP?
 
MHz
#106
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

It seems that you have learned from SJP - It also fits with your philosphy - So why would anyone think you disagreed with the OP?

Cliffy didn't 'invent' the quotes, the same ones can be found on various sites.

The Aussie Digger : Home of all Australian Veterans ex Service and Serving members | Home of all Australian Veterans ex Service and Serving members

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED | The History The US Government HOPES You Never Learn!

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/nl709.htm

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvzqoHZNIhLIk

Last edited by MHz; Nov 23rd, 2011 at 09:45 PM..
 
darkbeaver
Republican
#107
Quote: Originally Posted by HighballView Post

I'm not a big history student but I do remember speaking to a retired WWII German Luftwaffe JU-52 Transport pilot who told me of many trips into Italy to pickup wooden crates of navigation instruments that had a General Motors stamp on the bill of lading (document of contents) and also hauling materials from Sweden in GE containers. Later, in the military I did learn the US carried on a secret trade with the AXIS powers all during the war. Then later attempted to conceal the facts. Many small parts and electronics items were being manufactured in the US probably under a "Defeat the Nazi's" banner.

I guess operations like empire building require balanced exhaustion of warring economies. Holly Wood never mentioned it. Now were screwed.

We should also remember to hate loath and detest Hitlers horrific ideas and actions about economic warfare .
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#108
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

It seems that you have learned from SJP - It also fits with your philosphy - So why would anyone think you disagreed with the OP?

Which philosophy is that? The one where I think all history is BS? That it all just someone's opinion? Then you might be right.

Ha ha ha ha! I love it! "Are we civilized or just domesticated?" Too freakin' funny!
 
Corduroy
#109
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Cliffy didn't 'invent' the quotes, the same ones can be found on various sites.

The Aussie Digger : Home of all Australian Veterans ex Service and Serving members | Home of all Australian Veterans ex Service and Serving members

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED | The History The US Government HOPES You Never Learn!

Vatican proposes a World Government to stabilize the Financial System

Reading Hitler and Gottfried Feder - Why are we still fighting for the wrong side - YouTube

No one is saying that Cliffy made up those quotes. We're saying they're made up.

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Which philosophy is that? The one where I think all history is BS? That it all just someone's opinion? Then you might be right.

What makes you think that all history is BS? Did the bears tell you?
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#110
Quote: Originally Posted by CorduroyView Post

No one is saying that Cliffy made up those quotes. We're saying they're made up.



What makes you think that all history is BS? Did the bears tell you?

I first became aware in the 60s when I discovered that I was taught that the Mohawk were good indians and the Algonquin were bad indians. Then I dated a French girl and she was taught the it was the other way around. So I started looking at history from many different perspectives and found that no one really agreed, that the various histories were only relevant from the tellers perspective. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that it is just opinion and propaganda. I have seen no evidence to convince me otherwise in all these years.
 
Corduroy
+1
#111
Hmm... tell me more about this Mohawk/Algonquin example. In what is this referencing? And who are the Mohawks and Algonquins, by the way?
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#112
Quote: Originally Posted by CorduroyView Post

Hmm... tell me more about this Mohawk/Algonquin example. In what is this referencing? And who are the Mohawks and Algonquins, by the way?

Now you are being facetious. You could watch Last of the Mohicans if you need a refresher.
 
petros
+1
#113
Disney is a great source of history.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#114
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Now you are being facetious. You could watch Last of the Mohicans if you need a refresher.

I think she has a point there, Cliff. Albeit some of each of them probably fought in W.W.2.
 
MHz
#115
Quote: Originally Posted by CorduroyView Post

No one is saying that Cliffy made up those quotes. We're saying they're made up.

What makes you think that all history is BS? Did the bears tell you?

Who is 'we'? Would,t you have to supply the various references to show that they are not real?
Perhaps something like this will make a person determined to examine claims rather than read and swallow, like you seem to be doing.
History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.Sir Winston Churchill
British politician (1874 - 1965)

All the bears are in hibernation so no can talk to me.
 
Vaessen
-1
#116
Hey, my post was taken down, I think. I couldn't find it anyways. I don't think any of those things I said were ignorant enough to be taken down. The things that were quotes were clearly coloured red and could be seen as not my words.

To refresh: my point about WW2 and the info we hear being BS was that the holocaust story is a massive exaggeration. They claim 6 million Jews died in the holocaust. There were 9 million and change Jews living in Europe pre WW2. Let's just do the math. The population of Jews in the world is said to have actually increased between 1941-1948. And it was not a large sample size, only about 15 million. This can be explained easily because many Jews came forward after WW2 out of hiding and some came forward with their hands out for monetary reasons.

But looking into the numbers. 5.8 million European Jews migrated to the United States of America after WW2. 1.2 million Jews stayed in Europe. That's 7 million. 7 million subtracted from 9 and change means about 2-2.5 million Jews died in the war and death camps.

auschwitz itself, proves that the 6 million figure is a blatant lie, not even an exaggeration. There used to be a plaque there stating that nearly 4 million Jews killed there. There is now a plaque reading that about a million and a half people were killed there. So, the official plaque changes by a staggering 2.5 million, and the number that our blow hard media throws our way didn't change from 6 million to 3.5, no, it stayed the same, magically.

Also, Churchill had a Jewish American mother. In Jewish custom that makes him Jewish. They go maternal with that crap. This guy who any way you look at it, had extreme Jewish influence, he was tight with the Rothschilds, and he was a Jew himself, and pretended not to be for political reasons, yet after the war he writes about the war, trying to be a hero nuts, and in hundreds of pages of crap making himself into a hero even though he was just a chicken sh!t politician putting other people's kids in the line of fire, he didn't once mention the holocaust, Jewish suffering, or 6 million deaths. Why is that? It's clear that something happened at the death camps and that Jews were certainly targeted and slaughtered. But the truth is that hundreds, literally, hundreds of millions of people died in the war and because of the war, and so the 2 million or so Jewish deaths were actually just par for the course. Tell Europe about the poor Jews when their countries were in some cases, reduced to half of their size. About 50 times as many Christians died in the war as Jews. That's just a fact, and that's using the 6 million, trumped up, BS figure, that our Israeli lobby run media tells us happened.
 
PoliticalNick
Free Thinker
#117
Like all wars in the last 200 years or so WWII was a financial war with the big international bankers directing the show from way behind the scenes with the simple goal of driving every government and country into never-ending debt. Most of these banks were giving loans to both sides in an effort to continue the wars longer and increase the debt.

A little side note...in the mid 30's to early 40's a NY bank headed by the very politically connected father of George H W Bush was giving loans to none other than Hitler and the Nazis. No wonder the US didn't want to enter the war.
 
The Old Medic
Conservative
+2
#118
Quote: Originally Posted by VaessenView Post


Textbooks 30 years ago claimed 500,000 Jews were killed. And that's an astronomical number. Somehow that became 6 million today. .

Once again, the apologists for the Nazi's have spoken. I remember textbooks from 1952 onward, and they ALL spoke of over 6 MILLION Jews killed, along with about 6 million others. I have NEVER seen any textbook that claimed only 500,000 Jews were murdered.

There were over 30 death camps of various sizes. Many of them were filmed as they were liberated, and they discovered tens of thousands of corpses at most of them. They also discovered mass graves, with hundreds of thousands of bodily remains in them at several camps.

In addition, the Germans kept very detailed records, and their own records account for well over 12,000,000 people killed. Of course, not all of them were killed in the camps. A couple of million were murdered in Russia, by shooting them (this was considered to be too inefficient though).

Only a Nazi sympathizer would even attempt to claim that the Holocaust did not happen.
 
DaSleeper
#119
Political coorectness taken to a brand new disgusting level...
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#120
Quote: Originally Posted by VaessenView Post

Hey, my post was taken down, I think. I couldn't find it anyways. I don't think any of those things I said were ignorant enough to be taken down. The things that were quotes were clearly coloured red and could be seen as not my words.

I guess I missed your first post but yeah, if it was as ignorant as this one it should have been taken down. There are still quite a few survivors of the holocaust I will believe before your rantings. You yap about Aushwitz, but that was just the start. One of the main death camps was Birkenau. Not all of the 6 million deaths transpired in the ovens. Many were shot point blank, countless others starved to death. Who the f**k are you trying to protect?

Auschwitz-Birkenau Concentration Camp Complex --data and summary facts

Quote: Originally Posted by The Old MedicView Post

Once again, the apologists for the Nazi's have spoken. I remember textbooks from 1952 onward, and they ALL spoke of over 6 MILLION Jews killed, along with about 6 million others. I have NEVER seen any textbook that claimed only 500,000 Jews were murdered.

There were over 30 death camps of various sizes. Many of them were filmed as they were liberated, and they discovered tens of thousands of corpses at most of them. They also discovered mass graves, with hundreds of thousands of bodily remains in them at several camps.

In addition, the Germans kept very detailed records, and their own records account for well over 12,000,000 people killed. Of course, not all of them were killed in the camps. A couple of million were murdered in Russia, by shooting them (this was considered to be too inefficient though).

Only a Nazi sympathizer would even attempt to claim that the Holocaust did not happen.

He's a spammer and should be eliminated from the forum as such.
 

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