Libya: ICC prosecutor seeks warrant for Gaddafi

[CDNBear]

Libya: ICC prosecutor seeks warrant for Gaddafi

The International Criminal Court chief prosecutor is seeking the arrest of Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi and two others for crimes against humanity.


Luis Moreno-Ocampo said Col Gaddafi, his son Saif al-Islam, and intelligence chief Abdullah al-Sanussi bore the greatest responsibility for "widespread and systematic attacks" on civilians.


ICC judges must still decide whether or not to issue warrants for their arrest.


The Libyan government has already said it will ignore the announcement.


Deputy Foreign Minister Khalid Kaim said the court was a "baby of the European Union designed for African politicians and leaders" and its practices were "questionable".



Libya did not recognise its jurisdiction, like a few other African countries and the United States, he added.


'Inner circle'

Mr Moreno-Ocampo said that after reviewing more than 1,200 documents and 50 interviews with key insiders and witnesses, his office had evidence showing that Col Gaddafi had "personally ordered attacks on unarmed Libyan civilians".



"His forces attacked Libyan civilians in their homes and in public spaces, shot demonstrators with live ammunition, used heavy weaponry against participants in funeral processions, and placed snipers to kill those leaving mosques after prayers," he told a news conference in The Hague.


"The evidence shows that such persecution is still ongoing as I speak today in the areas under Gaddafi control. Gaddafi forces have prepared a list with names of alleged dissidents, and they are being arrested, put into prisons in Tripoli, tortured and made to disappear," he added.


Mr Moreno-Ocampo continued: "His [Col Gaddafi's] second-oldest son, Saif al-Islam, is the de facto prime minister and Sanussi, Gaddafi's brother-in-law, is his right-hand man - the executioner, the head of military intelligence. He commanded personally some of the attacks."



BBC News - Libya: ICC prosecutor seeks warrant for Gaddafi

This is how fast the ICC works. Don't you think if there was some validity to the cries of 'crimes against humanity' that have been levied at Israel. The ICC would have issued arrest warrants by now?

 

[Machjo]

Is this thread about Gadhafi or Israel? I'm confused.

 

[DaSleeper]

Is this thread about Gadhafi or Israel? I'm confused.

Of course;-)

 

[Machjo]

Of course;-)

So can you clarify?

 

[CDNBear]

So can you clarify?

I can, the ICC acts fairly swiftly.

If there was any validity to the cries from the usual suspects, the ICC would have issued arrest warrants for key Israeli officials.

Now watch how fast the deflection begins.

 

[MHz]

Haven't the bombs been trying to find him?

Is this the same court doing the STL investigation, they seem to have some free time on their hands?

Let me guess which SEAL Team gets the 'contract' to collect?

 

[CDNBear]

 

[DaSleeper]

So can you clarify?

I can, the ICC acts fairly swiftly.

If there was any validity to the cries from the usual suspects, the ICC would have issued arrest warrants for key Israeli officials.

Now watch how fast the deflection begins.

You had to beat me to the answer while I was making myself an after diner coffee:smile:....

 

[Machjo]

I can, the ICC acts fairly swiftly.

If there was any validity to the cries from the usual suspects, the ICC would have issued arrest warrants for key Israeli officials.

Now watch how fast the deflection begins.

RIGHTS: ICC Investigating Israel War Crimes Charges - IPS ipsnews.net

As it turns out, only signatories can be judged by the ICC, which suggests that Lybia is in fact a signatory to the ICC. Silly Gadhafi! Israel has never signed on and is therefore outside the ICC's jurisdiction. I guess it answers that question.

This doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of UN Resolutions against both Israel and the Palestinian Authority, as there are UNHCHR rulings against Canadian human rights abuses along with Israeli and Palestinian human rights abuses.

I guess that answers that.

 

[MHz]

Swiftly??? When the 'STL Investigation' was forwarded to a Judge for a list of who would be charged it was to take 6 weeks, that was back in February, at least. Sorry I don't have a time for how long the investigation took but it wasn't 'speedy' or there would have been no 6 week 'review'.

Is this the UN doing another 'lets get Saddam' quest?? That would speed things up considerably.

 

[CDNBear]

RIGHTS: ICC Investigating Israel War Crimes Charges - IPS ipsnews.net

As it turns out, only signatories can be judged by the ICC, which suggests that Lybia is in fact a signatory to the ICC. Silly Gadhafi! Israel has never signed on and is therefore outside the ICC's jurisdiction. I guess it answers that question.

Do you not understand what you just posted?

RIGHTS: ICC Investigating Israel War Crimes Charges - IPS ipsnews.net

+

Israel is outside the ICC's jurisdiction...

=

Irrelevant.

This doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of UN Resolutions against both Israel and the Palestinian Authority, as there are UNHCHR rulings against Canadian human rights abuses along with Israeli and Palestinian human rights abuses.

I guess that answers that.

By a human rights committee, stacked with the worlds worst human rights abusers, and sworn enemies of Israel.

And that answers that.

Swiftly??? When the 'STL Investigation' was forwarded to a Judge for a list of who would be charged it was to take 6 weeks, that was back in February, at least. Sorry I don't have a time for how long the investigation took but it wasn't 'speedy' or there would have been no 6 week 'review'.

Is this the UN doing another 'lets get Saddam' quest?? That would speed things up considerably.

Now watch how fast the deflection begins.

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45664

 

[Machjo]

So I guess the UN resolution to protect civilians must be illegitimate in your eyes too then? Do you support Canada withdrawing from the UN?

 

[CDNBear]

So I guess the UN resolution to protect civilians must be illegitimate in your eyes too then?

Nope, the whole of the UN is, in my eyes.

Do you support Canada withdrawing from the UN?

Yep.

 

[Machjo]

At least you're consistent.

What would you replace the UN with?

By the way, I guess yo'd love Ron Paul as president of the USA. He wants the US to pull out of the UN and mind its own business. It certainly would put an end to the debate of whom the US would support seeing that Ron Paul's answer is pretty straight-forward: No one.

Bear in mind though that Ron Paul would also want to pull out of NATO and NORAD. That's something I would agree with.

Maybe we need someone like Ron Paul in Canada?

 

[MHz]

RIGHTS: ICC Investigating Israel War Crimes Charges - IPS ipsnews.net

As it turns out, only signatories can be judged by the ICC, which suggests that Lybia is in fact a signatory to the ICC. Silly Gadhafi! Israel has never signed on and is therefore outside the ICC's jurisdiction. I guess it answers that question.

This doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of UN Resolutions against both Israel and the Palestinian Authority, as there are UNHCHR rulings against Canadian human rights abuses along with Israeli and Palestinian human rights abuses.

I guess that answers that.

How many against the PA?

Israel is bound to the conditions of UN 181 and UN 273. (as far as Gaza and the West Bank and Jerusalem is concerned)

UN 181 disputes is to be heard by this court . That should be the same court that hears things for NU 194 and UN 273 (reprinted below)

Chapter 3: Citizenship, International Conventions and Financial Obligations

1. Citizenship Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights. Persons over the age of eighteen years may opt, within one year from the date of recognition of independence of the State in which they reside, for citizenship of the other State, providing that no Arab residing in the area of the proposed Arab State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Jewish State and no Jew residing in the proposed Jewish State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Arab State. The exercise of this right of option will be taken to include the wives and children under eighteen years of age of persons so opting.
Arabs residing in the area of the proposed Jewish State and Jews residing in the area of the proposed Arab State who have signed a notice of intention to opt for citizenship of the other State shall be eligible to vote in the elections to the Constituent Assembly of that State, but not in the elections to the Constituent Assembly of the State in which they reside.
2. International conventions

The State shall be bound by all the international agreements and conventions, both general and special, to which Palestine has become a party. Subject to any right of denunciation provided for therein, such agreements and conventions shall be respected by the State throughout the period for which they were concluded.
Any dispute about the applicability and continued validity of international conventions or treaties signed or adhered to by the mandatory Power on behalf of Palestine shall be referred to the International Court of Justice in accordance with the provisions of the Statute of the Court.


UN 273

Having received the report of the Security Council on the application of Israel for membership in the United Nations,
Noting that, in the judgment of the Security Council, Israel is a peace-loving State and is able and willing to carry out the obligations contained in the Charter,
Noting that the Security Council has recommended to the general Assembly that it admit Israel to membership in the United Nations,
Noting furthermore the declaration by the State of Israel that it "unreservedly accepts the obligations of the United Nations Charter and undertakes to honour them from the day when it becomes a member of the United Nations,"
Recalling its resolutions of 29 November 1947 and 11 December 1948 and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel before the Ad Hoc Political Committee in respect of the implementation of the said resolutions,
The General Assembly,
Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.

With Israel not signing that only means the UN cannot rule on how she operates inside her border.

 

[CDNBear]

At least you're consistent.

I try.

What would you replace the UN with?

A body with teeth, where members are all equal, and human rights councils are laden with member countries that aren't human rights abusers, and all resolutions are filed after an open hearing, not unlike a trial.

How many against the PA?

Israel is bound to the conditions of UN 181 and UN 273. (as far as Gaza and the West Bank and Jerusalem is concerned)

UN 181 disputes is to be heard by this court . That should be the same court that hears things for NU 194 and UN 273 (reprinted below)

Chapter 3: Citizenship, International Conventions and Financial Obligations

1. Citizenship Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights. Persons over the age of eighteen years may opt, within one year from the date of recognition of independence of the State in which they reside, for citizenship of the other State, providing that no Arab residing in the area of the proposed Arab State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Jewish State and no Jew residing in the proposed Jewish State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Arab State. The exercise of this right of option will be taken to include the wives and children under eighteen years of age of persons so opting.
Arabs residing in the area of the proposed Jewish State and Jews residing in the area of the proposed Arab State who have signed a notice of intention to opt for citizenship of the other State shall be eligible to vote in the elections to the Constituent Assembly of that State, but not in the elections to the Constituent Assembly of the State in which they reside.
2. International conventions

The State shall be bound by all the international agreements and conventions, both general and special, to which Palestine has become a party. Subject to any right of denunciation provided for therein, such agreements and conventions shall be respected by the State throughout the period for which they were concluded.
Any dispute about the applicability and continued validity of international conventions or treaties signed or adhered to by the mandatory Power on behalf of Palestine shall be referred to the International Court of Justice in accordance with the provisions of the Statute of the Court.


UN 273

Having received the report of the Security Council on the application of Israel for membership in the United Nations,
Noting that, in the judgment of the Security Council, Israel is a peace-loving State and is able and willing to carry out the obligations contained in the Charter,
Noting that the Security Council has recommended to the general Assembly that it admit Israel to membership in the United Nations,
Noting furthermore the declaration by the State of Israel that it "unreservedly accepts the obligations of the United Nations Charter and undertakes to honour them from the day when it becomes a member of the United Nations,"
Recalling its resolutions of 29 November 1947 and 11 December 1948 and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel before the Ad Hoc Political Committee in respect of the implementation of the said resolutions,
The General Assembly,
Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,
1. Decides that Israel is a peace loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;
2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations.

Now watch how fast the deflection begins.

 

[Machjo]

How many against the PA?

I stand corrected. There are no UN resolutions against Palestine since it's a non-entity at teh UN. Though I'll have to look at whether there have been resolutions against Hamas or other such more specifically more definable groups.

But regardless. Let's look at Canada for instance. Canada has been charged with human rights violations:

United Nations Human Rights Website - Treaty Bodies Database - Document - Concluding Observations/Comments - Canada

So, do we ingore these human rights vioations on teh grounds that another country's violations are worse?

Why does Israel not try to live up to the highest moral standards as an example to emulate rather than just point out at attrocities committed by Palestinian groups as an excuse for tis vilations. Ridiculous.

 

[CDNBear]

So, do we ingore these human rights vioations on teh grounds that another country's violations are worse?

No, we ignore them because they were generated by a body with the moral equivalence of jello.

Why does Israel not try to live up to the highest moral standards as an example to emulate rather than just point out at attrocities committed by Palestinian groups as an excuse for tis vilations.

Israel has some of the highest moral standards in combat, among all Nations.

That is simply proven with the death tole from an operation the size, complexity and ferocity of "Cast Lead". Less than 700 civilians killed.

Ridiculous.

Quite.

Now watch how fast the deflection begins.

 

[mentalfloss]

Here's the correct deflection..

Libyan government asks why ICC isn't also seeking to prosecute Syria

Libya's deputy foreign minister, Khaled Kaim, cited the continued liberty of Sudanese president, Omar al-Bashir, as an example of the ICC's "impotence", saying the veteran dictator was safe in Khartoum despite claims that he had played a direct role in the genocide in Darfur.

Kaim said Libya was not one of the 114 member states of the ICC, which was created by the Rome treaty in 1988. He said the court had no jurisdiction on Libyan affairs and suggested it had a vendetta against African states.

"We are more interested [in] the human rights council and in moving forward with trying to implement a ceasefire," he said.

Amnesty International described the move as a "step towards justice". The group's international director of law and policy, Michael Bochenek, said: "The request for arrest warrants is a step forward for international justice and accountability in the region.

"However, the international community that came together in such unprecedented agreement to refer Libya to the international criminal court, cannot allow justice to appear selective. By any standard, what is happening in Syria is just as bad as the situation was in Libya when the [UN] security council referred that country to the ICC.

"Real international justice has to be for everyone in the Middle East and North Africa."


Libyan government asks why ICC isn't also seeking to prosecute Syria | World news | The Guardian

 

[Machjo]

Just another question: what's been taking the Canadian court system so long to enforce our Treaties? Just askin'.