OPP vs RCMP

[hermite]

I overheard a conversation where a guy said, "Last time I was involved with our cops, OPP, I refused to talk with them unless they provided me with a lawyer.

I was in lock up for 4 hours and despite having over 500 bucks in cash, and a fast-food place across the road, and numerous requests and willingness to pay for some food, they refused to feed me.

I won't deal with our OPP next time - It'll be our RCMP."

Now, I've never been arrested myself so maybe there's something I don't know but somehow I don't think if the police take you in you can just say, "no, I want the RCMP instead." Right?

So I guess he was saying that if he were to be arrested again he would behave in such a way that the RCMP would have to be called in?

Could some of you with knowledge about the two forces enlighten me a little about the difference between them? I've always thought the RCMP was more of an investigative body. And I don't find a listing for them in my phone book. Just wonderin'. :?:

 

[kcowan]

Maybe he was in for a drug offence (federal) or is moving out of Ontario to any other province than Quebec?

 

[hermite]

No, he was in for property damage (mischief), and he's not going anywhere.

 

[lone wolf]

RCMP will deal with him only if it's a federal offence or if the offence occurred in an area of federal jurisdiction - like at an international airport or an embassy. Maybe he should act up in a place with municipal cops. Then he can have three levels of idle threat to toss about. Let me guess.... The OPP said no huh?

 

[hermite]

RCMP will deal with him only if it's a federal offence/quote]

So, if he murdered someone the RCMP would get involved? That's kind of what I thought he might be implying. :-(

 

[lone wolf]

RCMP will deal with him only if it's a federal offence/quote]

So, if he murdered someone the RCMP would get involved? That's kind of what I thought he might be implying. :-(

If he transported the victim across a provincial border to do it. Otherwise, OPP still has jurisdiction.

 

[Francis2004]

I overheard a conversation where a guy said, "Last time I was involved with our cops, OPP, I refused to talk with them unless they provided me with a lawyer.

I was in lock up for 4 hours and despite having over 500 bucks in cash, and a fast-food place across the road, and numerous requests and willingness to pay for some food, they refused to feed me.

I won't deal with our OPP next time - It'll be our RCMP."

Now, I've never been arrested myself so maybe there's something I don't know but somehow I don't think if the police take you in you can just say, "no, I want the RCMP instead." Right?

So I guess he was saying that if he were to be arrested again he would behave in such a way that the RCMP would have to be called in?

Could some of you with knowledge about the two forces enlighten me a little about the difference between them? I've always thought the RCMP was more of an investigative body. And I don't find a listing for them in my phone book. Just wonderin'. :?:

It could very well be that he has outstanding issues with the RCMP that he knows would be much more of interest to them then the OPP. He could be withholding information about himself or something that happen that he was part of and doesn't want disclosed yet. If in Ontario it could be on crown land or he could have come from another province he visited or lived in shortly.

Without all the facts all we are doing is speculating..

 

[Ron in Regina]

I can't comment on this one as I live in a strange "no-man's-land" for
the RCMP called the "City of Regina." Someone local here can most
likely expand on this (Like Petros or Dexter Sinister).

Regina is the home for the RCMP (or so they tell us). Back in the mid
'70's, our local police force went on strike (for only a day or two). I
was quite young and all I really remember is squealing tires as the idiots
all took advantage of the situation to drive like they where on a race
track. The parents where pretty nervous and expecting anarchy, but
all that really came out of no law enforcement for a day or two was a
whole lot of rubber left on the pavement...

The City was making arrangements with the RCMP to police the city.
That broke the strike, and out of that came some very bizarre rules for
the RCMP inside the city of Regina. The RCMP, though a national police
force, are very limited as to what they can do in the City of Regina, so as
not to step on the toes of the local police force. There is some real animosity
between them that I've seen first hand. It's a very strange situation....8O
___________________

 

[hermite]

Thanks for that interesting bit, Ron. I'll always remember a vacation and going to the RCMP museum as a young girl, many many years ago. I'm guessing now it must have been in Regina. While I do not remember where it was, I sure remember the Mounties. Mmmm, studly. :lol:

Times change though. I don't recall ever seeing a vehicle here in No. Ont that indicated it was the RCMP. Do they still wear the red uniforms? Or is that just for parades and stuff?

 

[Ron in Regina]

I've never seen an RCMP member in Serge that wasn't at
a ceremony of some type. There are different forms of dress
depending on the weather, but usually they dress very much
like the uniforms worn in that Vancouver Airport video that
everyone has seen.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

My understanding is that Ontario and Quebec have their own police forces who have jurisdiction on their lands, the RCMP often patrol federal lands such as airports, however Toronto police still patrol the airport. Municipalities and cities often either have their own police or contract policing out to the provincial forces. Take Martensville SK which had its own force which fell into disrepute, they were disbanded and the RCMP were hired to replace them. Smaller municipaities do complain of the cost of RCMP policing and sometimes form their own force as well.

As for jurisdiction, to my knowledge even military police can make an arrest, but will hand the alleged offender over to local authorities. Where I live it is somewhat shared, Halifax Regional Police and RCMP both patrol, however HRM police mainly work within the urban areas of Halifax, Dartmouth, Bedford and such, while the RCMP patrol the highways.

Certain offenders may be handed over to the RCMP depending on the offense, but if your guy committed an offense in, say Mississauga, and was caught by the OPP on an outstanding warrant, he would likely be handed over to Peel Regional police despite any protestations that he wanted to deal with the RCMP. I guess what I'm saying, generally, is that no matter where he is caught he will eventually deal with the force in the jurisdiction where the alleged offense took place.

That being said, a person under arrest has the right to:
- be immediately informed of the right to silence, (very important)
- be immediately informed of the reason for the arrest
- be immediately informed of the right to counsel
- be promptly allowed to contact counsel once police have the situation under control and the person under arrest (R v. Strachan, [1988] 2 S.C.R. 980), not like 4 hours later.

 

[hermite]

Thanks, bob. That last line, be promptly allowed to contact counsel once police have the situation under control and the person under arrest. Say it's 8 at night, you're in a tiny town where there are no lawyers closer than 90 km, you're on welfare so you don't have your own counsel, how do you suppose they would handle that?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Thanks, bob. That last line, be promptly allowed to contact counsel once police have the situation under control and the person under arrest. Say it's 8 at night, you're in a tiny town where there are no lawyers closer than 90 km, you're on welfare so you don't have your own counsel, how do you suppose they would handle that?

A Legal Aid after hours phone#, which can dispense legal advice.

 

[Risus]

My understanding is that Ontario and Quebec have their own police forces who have jurisdiction on their lands, the RCMP often patrol federal lands such as airports, however Toronto police still patrol the airport. Municipalities and cities often either have their own police or contract policing out to the provincial forces. Take Martensville SK which had its own force which fell into disrepute, they were disbanded and the RCMP were hired to replace them. Smaller municipaities do complain of the cost of RCMP policing and sometimes form their own force as well.

As for jurisdiction, to my knowledge even military police can make an arrest, but will hand the alleged offender over to local authorities. Where I live it is somewhat shared, Halifax Regional Police and RCMP both patrol, however HRM police mainly work within the urban areas of Halifax, Dartmouth, Bedford and such, while the RCMP patrol the highways.

Certain offenders may be handed over to the RCMP depending on the offense, but if your guy committed an offense in, say Mississauga, and was caught by the OPP on an outstanding warrant, he would likely be handed over to Peel Regional police despite any protestations that he wanted to deal with the RCMP. I guess what I'm saying, generally, is that no matter where he is caught he will eventually deal with the force in the jurisdiction where the alleged offense took place.

That being said, a person under arrest has the right to:
- be immediately informed of the right to silence, (very important)
- be immediately informed of the reason for the arrest
- be immediately informed of the right to counsel
- be promptly allowed to contact counsel once police have the situation under control and the person under arrest (R v. Strachan, [1988] 2 S.C.R. 980), not like 4 hours later.

I believe in Ontario, the RCMP would have jurisdiction over federal matters such as imigration, smuggling, fisheries and oceans offenses, etc. Otherwise they would defer to the OPP.

I don't believe a person can choose the police force they want to deal with.

 

[lone wolf]

Thanks, bob. That last line, be promptly allowed to contact counsel once police have the situation under control and the person under arrest. Say it's 8 at night, you're in a tiny town where there are no lawyers closer than 90 km, you're on welfare so you don't have your own counsel, how do you suppose they would handle that?

Duty council. One of those lines in a Caution Statement say "retain and instruct council without delay. If you can't afford one, one will be provided.

The Charter sez:

10(b) of the Charter, a detainee should be informed of the existence and availability of the applicable systems of duty counsel and Legal Aid in the jurisdiction, in order to give the detainee a full understanding of the right to retain and instruct counsel.

In theory, it works....

 

[VanIsle]

Thanks for that interesting bit, Ron. I'll always remember a vacation and going to the RCMP museum as a young girl, many many years ago. I'm guessing now it must have been in Regina. While I do not remember where it was, I sure remember the Mounties. Mmmm, studly. :lol:

Times change though. I don't recall ever seeing a vehicle here in No. Ont that indicated it was the RCMP. Do they still wear the red uniforms? Or is that just for parades and stuff?

I have zero idea how the RCMP work in Ontario. I can tell you a little about BC. They are the main police force here. There are other police forces such as Vancouver City, Delta, and a few others. RCMP training has always taken place in Regina with the exception of some in Ottawa. I don't know if they still train in Ottawa or not. If you saw a museum - you saw it in Depot in Regina and it is still there. Red Serge has been only a dress uniform for at least the last 60 years. It is worn for such occassions as Remembrance Day, Funerals, Weddings (if the groom wants to and his groomsmen or now days - maybe the Bride), for opening ceremonies such as the Olympics and in local towns and cities for any special occassion where they are requested to attend. They used to wear brown serge daily but someone agreed to get rid of it which for my opinion was a shame. The uniform no longer commands any respect but the members will tell you it's more comfortable. While it may have changed, brown serge was required for things like court.
The police in BC are not really just federal employees. Cities have to pay a percentage for their policing costs and they do pay the lion's share of each members wages. I think this would apply in other provinces as well. In my city, the only police we have are the RCMP. They police school zones, drug offences etc. They do it all. This is not unusual in this province at all. The RCMP are well known here.
I sure remember the Mounties. Mmmm, studly. :lol: I doubt things have changed in Regina where many of the girls are said to have "scarlet" fever. I guess now the guys get it too. I've only spent a few days of my life in Regina but I picked up scarlet fever anyway and still have it now 42 years later.;-) (He's still sleeping right this moment):lol:

 

[bobnoorduyn]

I believe in Ontario, the RCMP would have jurisdiction over federal matters such as imigration, smuggling, fisheries and oceans offenses, etc. Otherwise they would defer to the OPP.

I don't believe a person can choose the police force they want to deal with.

Yeah, it all depends, and sometimes gets blurred. The DFO patrols this coast as well as the non tidal waters. They often bring the RCMP and/or Transport Canada to expand their scope. The DFO can inspect vessels for compliance and open compartments where the RCMP cannot. Even if you deny the RCMP access to your boat, the DFO can provide probable cause where there might otherwise not be. Underhanded if you ask me.

I've never heard of a successful case of "police shopping" either, but "judge shopping", while discouraged by the Crown (no kidding) is legal for the defense, not for the prosecution.

 

[VanIsle]

Quoting Bobnoor: That being said, a person under arrest has the right to:
- be immediately informed of the right to silence, (very important)
- be immediately informed of the reason for the arrest
- be immediately informed of the right to counsel
- be promptly allowed to contact counsel once police have the situation under control and the person under arrest (R v. Strachan, [1988] 2 S.C.R. 980), not like 4 hours later.
This is called Miranda Rights. They must be read their Miranda Rights immediately upon arrest. I thought the guy in the original post simply wanted some food. If I am right, unless he was detained for a very lengthy period, no police force is required to go across the street and get him some food. Didn't he say he was held for something like 4 hours? We all go for that long without food. It wasn't like the OPP was starving him. I doubt the RCMP would have treated him any differently and who on earth thinks you get to choose your police force for an arrest!

 

[bobnoorduyn]

Red Serge has been only a dress uniform for at least the last 60 years. It is worn for such occassions as Remembrance Day, Funerals, Weddings

About 25 years ago I had to take someone to a remote community for the treaty day ceremony. A young fellow just six months on the job was voluntold for the job, the excuse being that he was the only one at the detatchment who could still fit in his dress uniform. Fit?? :laughing5: He couldn't even sit down, I had to take the front seat out and have him stretch out from the back seat, poor bugger had to then stand in the hot July sun for 3 hours as the officials handed out $5 dollar bills.

 

[VanIsle]

About 25 years ago I had to take someone to a remote community for the treaty day ceremony. A young fellow just six months on the job was voluntold for the job, the excuse being that he was the only one at the detatchment who could still fit in his dress uniform. Fit?? :laughing5: He couldn't even sit down, I had to take the front seat out and have him stretch out from the back seat, poor bugger had to then stand in the hot July sun for 3 hours as the officials handed out $5 dollar bills.

I know about these things. After many years out of the Force, my husband had the honour of presenting my niece with her graduation badge. He went on a diet, lost lots of weight but then her graduation day was changed by about 6 weeks. He gained the weight back. He was still just fitting into his serge but then we had it drycleaned! Off to Regina we went. He went to put it on and both of us thought that either the cleaners shrunk it or they gave him the wrong serge. Sheer panic set in. I got out the hotel ironing board and loaded the steam iron up with water. I also had a glass of water by my side and I dampened and stretched with that iron and I did make it fit. It was a very warm day in May in Regina 3 years ago but he did make it through the whole ceremony. He stood as long as he could and then when he sat down, as you say, he stretched his legs out in front of him for as much as was decent and not quite lying right down! He went without lunch that day because he was afraid to eat. No one wanted back to the hotel where he could change into a suit, more than he did that day.:lol::lol: