Shooting themselves in the foot??

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
...
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/columnists/94627Thomas Walkom
Think of it as hubris. Stephen Harper's governing Conservatives are so used to seeing the opposition parties back down that they think they can get away with anything.
It seems that this time the Conservatives are wrong.
The catalyst for this remarkable state of affairs, in which the opposition parties say they are planning to unite to bring down Harper's government and replace it with one of their own, is Finance Minister Jim Flaherty's economic update – a bizarre document that bears no relation to either reality or any of the current prime minister's recent statements.
In that update, Flaherty downplays Harper's fears of a lengthy economic depression, ignores his stricture not to cut back at a time when governments should be doing more and singles out seemingly random targets in an effort to solve problems that don't exist.
Flaherty says he would cut back public service pay at a time when no one is suggesting that it is out of control. He wants to suspend the right to strike for federal employees even as the country enters a slump in which such strikes are highly unlikely. And he would put a crimp in pay equity – a program that requires Ottawa to pay women equal wages for work of equal value – although there is no evidence that the current system is either iniquitous or expensive.
Here, as Toronto lawyer Mary Cornish explains, the key is his apparent decision to end the right to appeal pay equity cases to the quasi-judicial Canadian Human Rights Commission.
The only thing that links these targets is their place in the Conservative party pantheon of villains.
If there's anything a red-meat Conservative hates more than a civil servant, it's a unionized civil servant. Indeed, the only thing worse is an uppity, female, unionized civil servant who complains to a human rights commission (which red-meat Conservatives also hate) that she's not paid enough.
In short, Flaherty's update is a standard piece of hard-right Conservative ideology, released at a time when Harper is promising to be less ideological, and just days after the Prime Minister explained why he thought his party's usual cut-and-squeeze nostrums wouldn't solve the crisis.
It is this contradiction, as much as anything, that signals the Conservatives are neither serious nor united about tackling the economy. Putting off substantive action until February, as Flaherty has suggested, is arguably reasonable. Using recession as an opportunity to ride Conservative hobby horses is not.
So how did the famously clever Harper get himself in this bind? To answer that question, recall The Sopranos. In that television show, mob leader Tony Soprano occasionally felt compelled to whack innocent bystanders – particularly after he'd demonstrated some element of human understanding – just to remind his own supporters that he was ruthless enough to be their boss.
Keep this image in mind. Keep in mind also that when Tony Soprano became too outrageous, his equally venal opponents felt compelled to stop him.
With Flaherty's update, Harper has entered outrageous territory. The opposition parties smell blood. They also know that, thanks to the peculiarities of the parliamentary system, this is their last chance to replace Harper's minority government without triggering another election.
Thomas Walkom's column appears Wednesday and Saturday.
 
  • Like
Reactions: scratch

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
This one zipped by so fast with not too many comments, I thought a few things were worth repeating: full credit to the Toronto Stars', Thomas Walkom.

Some of you have never lived in Ontario, but, if you ever went through the Harris days as we did, you know where Flatulance gets his ideas. Hard right.

The Ont. Cons made a policy of creating problems where none existed, finding enemies where there weren't any, and attacking the weak, those unable to fight back.

Some of this is taken right from the old Tory Ont. game book:

...Cutting back public service pay, when no one thinks it's out of control
..Suspending the right to strike by Federal civil servants, when the country is entering a slump, and such strikes are unlikely.
..Put the brakes on pay equity; for women; equal pay for work of equal value.

Just about the only thing he left out was calling nurses "hula hoops", and restricting the number of nurses which could be trained. We now have a nursing shortage in Ont., Ever wonder why? Oh, yes, and taking a $34.00/month stipend away from single mums so they "wouldn't spend it on beer".......check it out. It's all there.

In my opinion, what we are seeing here is the tip of the Con iceberg of "hidden agenda" (the one which doesn't exist, of course.) I really do thank my lucky stars we weren't foolish enough to give these reactionary monsters a majority government. We're still feeling the repercussions of the Mulroney dictatorship, at least here in "have not" Ont. where factory closings are on a severe upswing.

Good luck to us, and good luck to any coalition government which can throw these fascist freaks out on their asses.

Just mho.
 

Spade

Ace Poster
Nov 18, 2008
12,822
49
48
9
Aether Island
The Nature Conservancy of Canada has just identified Conservatives and the subspecies Harperites as threatened and endangered respectively.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
847
113
69
Saint John, N.B.
Dion, Layton and Duceppe?

Shooting Canada through the head, is more like it.

I just hope the wound is not fatal.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
22
38
With due respect to both of you,

It does not have to be that way.
We all get caught up in who said what or who didn'r do what or how can we bring the idiots to realize that they are idiots.

Eventually, in the end,IMO, it comes out in the wash.
scratch
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
Nuggler; You do understand that fascism is actually a left wing ideology don't you? I also seem to remember a not so pleasant Ontario under Bob Rae.

Nope, sorry, all the fascists I've ever heard of were of the right wing variety....Nazis,.Hitler, Mussolini, just to name a couple.

Extreme leftists are usually known as Marxists, Commies, and the like.

So, no, I don't understand that fascism is actually a left wing ideology. Welcome to CC, by the way.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,336
113
Vancouver Island
Nuggler; You do understand that fascism is actually a left wing ideology don't you? I also seem to remember a not so pleasant Ontario under Bob Rae.
Since I come from BC I missed all the fun of Boob Rae'e induced depression. However we did get almost a decade of Dipper missmanagement here that turned BC into a have not province with a massive debt load while the rest of the country was enjoying a boom. Not a pleasant experience. Cost me a business that I ran for 17 years.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
22
38
I am truly sorry to hear that.

Obviously you feel that you can see where this coalition thing is going.

regs
scratch
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
2,262
28
48
Mountain Veiw County
Nope, sorry, all the fascists I've ever heard of were of the right wing variety....Nazis,.Hitler, Mussolini, just to name a couple.

Extreme leftists are usually known as Marxists, Commies, and the like.

So, no, I don't understand that fascism is actually a left wing ideology. Welcome to CC, by the way.

Thanx for the welcome. But the right wing variety of facists were actually labelled that by the Soviets, (remember them, they were our allies) to distance themselves from equally brutal regimes, in our eyes anyway. The Hitlers and Mussolini's would be right wing if you were in Stalinist Russia, (or modern day China).

If the idea that communism is left and fascism is right, where would a system like Sweden's fit? Where would a free society fit? Communism and fascism are socialist regimes that require the heavy hand of government in order to operate. Both are extremes, (but fascism is often referred to as middle class socialism). Sweden has a more right wing ideology but still requires an intrusive government. Further right and you get a system more like ours. The further right you go the lss intrusive the government, until of course you reach anarchy, then you get a swift return to totalitarianism.
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
2,262
28
48
Mountain Veiw County
Since I come from BC I missed all the fun of Boob Rae'e induced depression. However we did get almost a decade of Dipper missmanagement here that turned BC into a have not province with a massive debt load while the rest of the country was enjoying a boom. Not a pleasant experience. Cost me a business that I ran for 17 years.

Taxslave; I didn't personally enjoy the Rae Days, but had enough family there to hear about it often enough. I think I was enjoying the doofus Don Getty period which morphed into King Ralph's dynasty. I managed to miss the Grant Devine giveaways during that period but moved back to Sask in time to enjoy paying for them. It doesn't really matter if the party is left or right, anyone who thinks they can fix the economy by throwing money at it always ends up making it worse, it just seems the left parties are more adept at it.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
140
63
Backwater, Ontario.
Thanx for the welcome. But the right wing variety of facists were actually labelled that by the Soviets, (remember them, they were our allies) to distance themselves from equally brutal regimes, in our eyes anyway. The Hitlers and Mussolini's would be right wing if you were in Stalinist Russia, (or modern day China).

If the idea that communism is left and fascism is right, where would a system like Sweden's fit? Where would a free society fit? Communism and fascism are socialist regimes that require the heavy hand of government in order to operate. Both are extremes, (but fascism is often referred to as middle class socialism). Sweden has a more right wing ideology but still requires an intrusive government. Further right and you get a system more like ours. The further right you go the lss intrusive the government, until of course you reach anarchy, then you get a swift return to totalitarianism.

Fascism is usually used as a term (in Canada) to designate those on the far right, and Communism, the opposite. As to what fits where,(Sweden et al), your guess is as good as mine, but the modern day Conservatives are definitely not Communist. But they are extreme. On the (CDN) right, hence fascist.

Never have heard it referred to as middle class socialism; but perhaps only in the sense that the rich divide the cream amongst them, hence socialism. Middle class, nah!! Nothing much left to divide when the urine trickles down the flanks of the uber rich.

But, to each his own. You use your definition, and I'll use mine. So, when I refer to fascists, you know I ain't referring to the NDP. Incorrect though I are.

8O
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
Left, right, Conservative, Liberal, Good, Bad.... It's politics and every one of the gangs use words in their own pretty way to dress it up to attract suckers to the party. Conservatives aren't Conservatives any more because they've reformed into Conservatives. None of them are interchangable - for purposes of propaganda ... yet Ottawa is home to four horsemen of the Mike Harris apocalypse in Harper's cabinet. If I said it was day ... someone is bound to disagree and scream night - and someone else will interpret that to mean I'm flaming Stockwell. Somebody shoot something....
 

bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
2,262
28
48
Mountain Veiw County
Fascism is usually used as a term (in Canada) to designate those on the far right, and Communism, the opposite.

Nuggler; It is also patently inaccurate, as is communism being the opposite. Like comparing H2SO4 to HCL, that one has a lower Ph does not make them opposites. But such is the divisive and polarized nature of our society.

As to what fits where,(Sweden et al), your guess is as good as mine

Well, my guess would be somewhere right of fascism and left of our lot in life.

but the modern day Conservatives are definitely not Communist. But they are extreme. On the (CDN) right, hence fascist.

The problem with inaccurate labelling is that I'm not sure which Conservatives you're talking about. I fail to see where the CPC is extreme, however some who call themselves conservative are. Kind of like the "religious right", an oxymoron, the two can't co-exist by definition, they are simply fundamentalists or extremists. Much the same as Liberals and liberals, many are the most illiberal people or parties ever, hence the relatively new term classical liberal.

Never have heard it referred to as middle class socialism; but perhaps only in the sense that the rich divide the cream amongst them, hence socialism.

Marxist ideology envisages a classless, egalitarian society. Communism, socialism, fascism, statism, are all just varying degrees of leftist ideologies on the left - right continuum. True communism doesn't exist outside small microcosms such as Hutterite communities or the kibbutzim. There will be class distinction, it is just that the ruling classes will have the riches rather than the entrepreneurial class. And the farther left you get the less chance of class mobility, except downward.

Inaccurate branding is used to purposely obfuscate fact and truth to push an agenda. A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth, we would still have to take a hard left to enter into fascism.