Anti-kosher view = Antisemitic?


karrie
#1
Okay, I have to ask. We have the thread running right now in which a new member is complaining about having to pay for kosher food as it is so prevalent where he lives in Montreal. He doesn't want his hard earned dollars going to a religious organization without his having consented to it, and without him having what he perceives as a reasonable choice in the matter.

Because of this view, he is being accused of antisemitism.

Yet, this view is not much different from the views I've heard expressed on here regarding money potentially going to christian churches or organizations in sneaky underhanded ways. And the people expressing these views aren't always 'against' religion, or against christians. They just don't want to be supporting something which is of no direct benefit to them personally. We all want to hold onto as many pennies for ourselves as possible, or have a direct say in where we put them.

So what is it SPECIFICALLY that makes it different, makes it okay to lay a blame of 'antisemitic'?
 
lone wolf
#2
Nothing anti-semitic about it. It's more anti hidden tax. Too many folks use tag defense when they can't come up with a valid thought of their own.

Woof!
 
DurkaDurka
#3
Yup, the anti defamation league will crucify you for saying such things.
 
Nuggler
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

Yup, the anti defamation league will crucify you for saying such things.

Watch that "crucify" there, eh!!
 
darkbeaver
#5
What's a semite?
 
hermite
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

What's a semite?

That's a good question. People who use the "anti-" term should really understand what the pro word is first.

Salute!
 
jimshort19
#7
Karrie, "Yet, this view is not much different from the views I've heard expressed on here regarding money potentially going to christian churches or organizations in sneaky underhanded ways."

In sneaky and underhanded ways? You have disqualified your own comparator.
 
hermanntrude
#8
there's nothing anti-semetic specifically about anti-kosher views.

However, the way this fellow was presenting his views definitely gave me the impression he had a thinly-veiled stupidly-disguised and frankly really annoying agenda.
 
lone wolf
#9
Is thinly-veiled, stupidly-disguised and, frankly, really annoying anti-semitic?

Woof!
 
darkbeaver
#10
And maybe that in itself is what we should be examining. How have we been trained to go there immeadiatly, I have done it unawares all my life, and I know many others are senseative to the same conditioning.
 
karrie
#11
'Semite' refers to people and 'semitic' to culture and languages of the middle east... a wide assortment. Anti-semitism is however, the widely accepted term for a view which is against Jewish peoples specifically. While the two don't directly apply to one another, it's English. What else in it makes perfect sense? I'm not about to start making up new terms because the ones society uses now are odd.
 
lone wolf
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

'Semite' refers to people and 'semitic' to culture and languages of the middle east... a wide assortment. Anti-semitism is however, the widely accepted term for a view which is against Jewish peoples specifically. While the two don't directly apply to one another, it's English. What else in it makes perfect sense? I'm not about to start making up new terms because the ones society uses now are odd.

The term isn't odd ... it's the little-minds who adopted the word without knowing it's meaning - much like they who deride free thinking people as conspiracist or dismiss folks who don't believe as them as tin-hatters. People, eh? Living proof that God has a sense of humour....

Woof!
 
darkbeaver
#13
Actually anti-semitism has its roots in Zionism I believe, anti-Judaic is what is meant but anti-semite is what we have, while most Jews are in fact not members of the semitic race but eastern european for the most part I believe. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
 
karrie
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Actually anti-semitism has its roots in Zionism I believe, anti-Judaic is what is meant but anti-semite is what we have, while most Jews are in fact not members of the semitic race but eastern european for the most part I believe. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

I don't think you're wrong.... being nitpicky and skewing the point, yes, but not wrong.
 
MikeyDB
#15
The word Kosher now....isn't that a Yiddish word? And who speaks Yiddish?

Well actually Yiddish is "high-German" but the dialect spoken by Jews is a vernacular usage. Hebrew isn't Yiddish but does anyone know the etiology of "kosher"..? I believe it has something to do with Jewish dietary law.....

So is the focus on the costs superimposed on everyone to meet the requirements of one particular religious cult or is it as has been batted around about these parts a subtle form of racism?
 
Lester
#16
He has a reasonable choice, you cannot tell me that he can go to the largest shopping centre in Montreal and walk out with nothing because it's all Kosher that in no uncertain terms is crap - let's not get bogged down with semetic semantics
 
Zan
#17
Semetic semantics. Well done! I do enjoy a good word play.
 
Lester
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by ZanView Post

Semetic semantics. Well done! I do enjoy a good word play.

ty
get em once in a while
 
darkbeaver
#19
Semetic semantics are seminal in this situation sadly.
 
Lester
#20
sickenely so, sorry to say
 
darkbeaver
#21
sigh
 
karrie
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by LesterView Post

He has a reasonable choice, you cannot tell me that he can go to the largest shopping centre in Montreal and walk out with nothing because it's all Kosher that in no uncertain terms is crap - let's not get bogged down with semetic semantics

I agree, and I've told him that quite a few time if you recall. But, he wouldn't be the first lazy consumer to be pissed and expect others to fix the problem for him.

I'm just curious where the clear line is. He hasn't actually said anything against Judaism. Yet it's where the mind leaps, obviously.
 
karrie
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by jimshort19View Post

Karrie, "Yet, this view is not much different from the views I've heard expressed on here regarding money potentially going to christian churches or organizations in sneaky underhanded ways."

In sneaky and underhanded ways? You have disqualified your own comparator.

Not in the way the poster has perceived it, through the use of numerous nondescript symbols.

While I don't agree with him, it's clearly the way he's viewing it, and it strikes me as a big leap from that to antisemitism.
 
Pangloss
#24
Awesome thread, and I'll state clearly here that I am the one that accuses krakra of anti-semitism. It's the "elephant in the living room" argument: his avoidance of anything that can be tagged as anti-semitic while complaining of being victimized by Jewish practices (specifically, a kosher food monopoly/conspiracy) screams his point loud and clear:

"Damn, but the Jews and their practices are expensive, monopolistic, and expensive."

Not a quote, mind you, but a contextually accurate subtextual paraphrase.*

How difficult could it possibly be to buy non-kosher food in a city as big as Montreal?

I honestly believe that krakra has an agenda, and he wants us to go there on his/her behalf.

Pangloss

*How's that for an indefensible semantic mouthful? I should get an award for that sentence.
- p
 
karrie
#25
And see, perhaps it's my naivety, but I buy it the way he's put it, face value.

Here's where I get to extrapolate a bit.... He(?)'s immigrated, only to realize that we have 'kosher' everywhere. Religion's a much bigger deal in many countries than it is for us here, and suddenly, he's realizing he's paying for, essentially, a religious service that is of no use or sense to him. I think I might be confused and flustered by it too frankly. And in Montreal, I'd assume it's much more prevalent. His neighborhood may even be a huge contributing factor... some will be much more difficult than others to find non-kosher in. So, he's moved, food's more expensive, and all of it has labels of 'kosher' on it.

But perhaps I'm just extrapolating into a different direction than you lot. Perhaps I give people too much credit, I don't know.

But I get fatigued with the notion that religion and race can't be discussed, even in such a small a fashion as food practices, without bigotry and racism being tossed into the mix at every turn.
 
Pangloss
#26
Karrie:

I'd buy that argument if there was some evidence of an effort made to find non-kosher food.

Failing that, some evidence of the actual increased cost of kosher food.

Krakra seems a little too persistent, even in his/her lack of acknowledgment of alternatives, for me to give him/her the credit that you do.

Mind you, you could also simply be a nicer person than me. . .

Pangloss
 
Pangloss
#27
I remain skeptical of some sort of supermarket hegemony of kosher foodstuffs.

Pangloss.
 
Pangloss
#28
And yes, it is big word night for old Pangloss. . .

Pangloss
 
karrie
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by PanglossView Post

]
Mind you, you could also simply be a nicer person than me. . .

Pangloss

Yes, I think we've found the key right there. lol.
 
Zan
#30
alliteration abounds!

Karrie - you're right - we should keep as open a mind as possible before assigning such labels to people. We are so lucky to live in a place that is ready to leap up and take umbrage at the mere idea of racism in our presence. What a luxury that is for us - and not one to be taken lightly.

On the other hand, I do not believe it is all that difficult - even with a language barrier - to convey a clear assurance that racism is not at issue here. Without that assurance, the readers are left to use their own discernment. Apparently they have done so.
 

Similar Threads

189
why i have to pay more for kosher
by krakra | Jan 11th, 2008
9
The View
by s243a | May 4th, 2007
0
The view from here
by Blackleaf | Apr 29th, 2007
16
Koran : Nauseating Antisemitic Lampoon
by Curiosity | Nov 21st, 2006
no new posts