More single women than men?


Curiosity
#91
Again as with the homosexual thread - nobody mentions love unless they are relating their own personal experience in which they have been touched by that magic.

I don't see much 'love' within the polygamous household - other than regular love which families share and children prosper - but between man and woman there seems to be a ritualistic approach rather than a deep devotional one. That breathtaking 'can't live without you' feeling of one-ness.

And finally - I can't wrap my head around the demeaning (whether intentioned or self-ascribed) of women in this situation. As if they are brood mares.
 
Niflmir
#92
You should read Friday, Stranger in a Strange Land, Job: A Comedy of Justice, or For Us The Living by Robert Heinlein. The human capacity to love definitely goes beyond the bounds a polarised relationship which traditionally subjugates women to a subservient role. The love I have for my family, my friends, my exes and people that I won't have the opportunity to have a relationship with are not lessened by and do not lessen the love I have for my wife.

Certainly affirming polyandry to the subjugation of women is bad. I am with you completely on that, you must understand my mixed feelings here: traditional polyandry is terrible but if it opens the doors to alternate contractual relationships then large gain out of (small?) foul.

Of course, now that I think about the state of the world... and the prevalence of polyandry which subjugates women... I wonder if I really want Canada to be a Haven for that? Maybe we could improve their lot, maybe we would harm it?
 
Unforgiven
#93
Quote: Originally Posted by tamarinView Post

The RCMP are the law of the land in Bountiful. They are cowards in not using their authority to stop what most Canadians feel is illegal activity. The dumbass Charter should have been legitimized with a referendum in 1982. It was a pivotal moment in Canadian history and Canadians weren't at the table. Their reps were and they, as always, supported the party line, a line established by party insiders who are not accountable to the public.
What in hell is Bountiful doing in this country? As with comparable US centres for polygamy, the people involved are a huge drain on the public purse.
At least in the US, Warren Jeffs, a polygamist leader, has been indicted.

I think in all probability, you will find that most Canadians don't give a damn about how many people want to shack up. If they are happy and not interfereing with the rest of us, then probably the only people who are going to get upset about it are the usual bunch of nitpickers that can't stand their own life and have a hate on for anyone who is happy.
 
tamarin
#94
I doubt that. Polygamists don't pay their own way. Their wives don't earn keep sufficient for their households. They depend on public support.
Canadians in general, speaking for this corner of the country, are sick and tired of having to accept things they don't agree with. Pretty crappy form of democracy.
Polygamy doesn't belong here and those in a position to do something about it should. If they don't, they'll have to accept the cynicism attached to their impotence.
 
Niflmir
#95
Quote: Originally Posted by tamarinView Post

I doubt that. Polygamists don't pay their own way. Their wives don't earn keep sufficient for their households. They depend on public support.
Canadians in general, speaking for this corner of the country, are sick and tired of having to accept things they don't agree with. Pretty crappy form of democracy.
Polygamy doesn't belong here and those in a position to do something about it should. If they don't, they'll have to accept the cynicism attached to their impotence.

Oh! I think I got my definitions mixed up a little. Yeah, men having multiple wives who can't marry other men is ridiculous.
 
Niflmir
#96
Ok, to clear this up, since I seem to have used some terms badly...

polygyny - man having multiple wives
polyandry - woman having multiple husbands
group marriage - multiple spouses of any gender
polygamy - generic term meaning more than two spouses
polyamory - generic term meaning any relationship with more than two loving partners.

Traditional polygamy is polygyny to the exclusion of polyandry. I think we all feel that in its traditional form this is bad. However, a modern polygamy is something most of us accept, with the stipulation that there are no lesser or greater roles or coercion.
 
hermanntrude
#97
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Jealous bunch of people complaining is all.

Why do I only get one wife when he gets five? No fair!!! lol.


Personally, in this day and age, I see no real issue with polygamy or any of the related 'amy's' frankly.

I DO see issue with marrying off thirteen year olds into polygamous households in the name of religion, but, that's a whole different ball of wax, not necessarily related to the act of polygamy itself.

'

how do you feel about polyandry?
 
hermanntrude
#98
after all that confusion there's only one logical thing to do.

I propose to you all.
 
Curiosity
#99
I have only one reference to a group of polygamus people in a community in Utah - even shunned by their fellow Mormon followers.

The husband(s) rarely have work or make a pretense at farming while the women collect welfare payments for their children - all of whom are sired by the one father.

The State of Utah on occasion will put up some kind of defense but if the children are being schooled, fed, clothed and generally happy there is rarely anything done to break the cycle.

Cycle - being when some of the girl children reach the age of puberty father then marries them and they become another of his 'wives' along with their mothers.

Eventually, I can see the gene pool suffering, not to mention the intent of welfare for families...and finally the suffering of a crippled upbringing within the family unit cast upon the children.
 
Niflmir
#100
Quote: Originally Posted by CuriosityView Post

I have only one reference to a group of polygamus people in a community in Utah - even shunned by their fellow Mormon followers.

The husband(s) rarely have work or make a pretense at farming while the women collect welfare payments for their children - all of whom are sired by the one father.

The State of Utah on occasion will put up some kind of defense but if the children are being schooled, fed, clothed and generally happy there is rarely anything done to break the cycle.

Cycle - being when some of the girl children reach the age of puberty father then marries them and they become another of his 'wives' along with their mothers.

Eventually, I can see the gene pool suffering, not to mention the intent of welfare for families...and finally the suffering of a crippled upbringing within the family unit cast upon the children.

I present to you the Kaingang people (external - login to view). So you can see that not all polygamies are necessarily screwballs, incestuous or sexist. Left to their own methods outside of contractual relationships many people go through periods of polyamory as is, without the incest and sexism, many even inside of contractual relationships!
 
karrie
#101
Quote: Originally Posted by CuriosityView Post

Again as with the homosexual thread - nobody mentions love unless they are relating their own personal experience in which they have been touched by that magic.

I don't see much 'love' within the polygamous household - other than regular love which families share and children prosper - but between man and woman there seems to be a ritualistic approach rather than a deep devotional one. That breathtaking 'can't live without you' feeling of one-ness.

And finally - I can't wrap my head around the demeaning (whether intentioned or self-ascribed) of women in this situation. As if they are brood mares.

Well, to be fair, just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

And polygamy doesn't apply only to men having more than one wife. It also applies to wives having more than one husband.

It seems to me that if my husband or I met someone we were in love with, someone who meshed with our family life, who it felt logical for us to include in our family unit, that should be between us and no one else. Much like any other love.
 
karrie
#102
Quote: Originally Posted by tamarinView Post

I doubt that. Polygamists don't pay their own way. Their wives don't earn keep sufficient for their households. They depend on public support.
Canadians in general, speaking for this corner of the country, are sick and tired of having to accept things they don't agree with. Pretty crappy form of democracy.
Polygamy doesn't belong here and those in a position to do something about it should. If they don't, they'll have to accept the cynicism attached to their impotence.

rewrite tax and welfare laws to include the polygamous household so that they're not taking more than their fair share of the pot. I'd point out that plenty of monogamous marriages don't bother to support themselves adequately either, and few complain about their right to suckle at the public teat.

And, as I've mentioned before, much of that issue stems from the religious nature of those practising polygamy. Allowing polygamy doesn't mean everyone is going to practise it the same as the mormons. The idea of a three income household is intriguing to say the least! lol.
 
karrie
#103
Quote: Originally Posted by hermanntrudeView Post

'

how do you feel about polyandry?


Careful Herm.. you're treading on dangerous ground here. Keep in mind I adored your wife when I met her... I just might end up asking you guys to marry us! LOL.
 
hermanntrude
#104
LOL! What would happen if I accepted and she didn't? Anyway it's only your hubby I like.
 
karrie
#105
Quote: Originally Posted by hermanntrudeView Post

LOL! What would happen if I accepted and she didn't? Anyway it's only your hubby I like.

If you accepted and she didn't? I think I'd let the matter rest... she's a tough gal... I think she could kick my butt. lol. And I'll be sure to let hubby know that you're his friend not mine. I wash my hands of you hermanntrude.
 
Unforgiven
#106
Quote: Originally Posted by tamarinView Post

I doubt that. Polygamists don't pay their own way. Their wives don't earn keep sufficient for their households. They depend on public support.
Canadians in general, speaking for this corner of the country, are sick and tired of having to accept things they don't agree with. Pretty crappy form of democracy.
Polygamy doesn't belong here and those in a position to do something about it should. If they don't, they'll have to accept the cynicism attached to their impotence.

Ah well that's interfereing then isn't it. So go and show to the police and the welfare agency that you suspect fraud and the evidence that backs it up and then you can either watch the investigation or have the police investigated for failure to protect the public. Either way, something will happen.
 
hermanntrude
#107
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

If you accepted and she didn't? I think I'd let the matter rest... she's a tough gal... I think she could kick my butt. lol. And I'll be sure to let hubby know that you're his friend not mine. I wash my hands of you hermanntrude.

lol don't be too hasty. Maybe I could put up with you just for the sake of a happy household
 
karrie
#108
Quote: Originally Posted by hermanntrudeView Post

lol don't be too hasty. Maybe I could put up with you just for the sake of a happy household

Well, it's what my hubby does, I'm sure you could find a way as well. lol.
 
Niflmir
#109
I feel like I am already intruding on a private family affair here...
 
karrie
#110
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

I feel like I am already intruding on a private family affair here...

lol. sorry niflmir. I'm having one of those off days, where every chance for a light hearted laugh MUST be seized.

I'll try to stop highjacking this thread with my musings.
 
Niflmir
#111
Naw, I just wanted to be a part of the family too. Wife is in California and I am in Bonn. Lonely times.
 
karrie
#112
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

Naw, I just wanted to be a part of the family too. Wife is in California and I am in Bonn. Lonely times.

lol. well, feel free to declare yourself my extra hubby. the ones I have now are a bit troublesome, as you can see.
 
hermanntrude
#113
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

Naw, I just wanted to be a part of the family too. Wife is in California and I am in Bonn. Lonely times.

I know how you feel dude. You have my sympathy
 
Niflmir
#114
Group hug?
 
karrie
#115
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

Group hug?

lol... that's adorable! Nothing beats an afternoon cuddle puddle.
 
Niflmir
#116
Nighttime here.
 
hermanntrude
#117
 
karrie
#118
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

Nighttime here.

ha... well, they don't tend to stay cuddly when they happen at night. lol.
 
Niflmir
#119
One last post before I go to bed, new husband and wife of mine. Since I am going alone...
 
Niflmir
#120
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

ha... well, they don't tend to stay cuddly when they happen at night. lol.

You are on the money there!
 

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