The Sickness of Canadian Anti-Americanism


CDNBear
#181
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDBView Post

Bear
I think we've reached a parting of the way here. I'm Canadian because I was born here. If you take the time to read what I've written regarding the Canadian government I think what you'd find is as sharp a criticism for this government as the American government. I stopped being a citizen of Canada a long time ago..and started being a citizen of the world. It is the world that stands to lose in the upward spiral of conflict and destruction and it is in my opinion the United States of America that owns the lions share of pushing the limits on how long other nations will succumb to American lies and beligerance.
Even it you're "right" even if you're "king-o-the-hill" in a "moral" sense, the practices of both the market-economy as directed by the United States and the on-going militarism that's uniquely American in scope and effect....we're all dead....
It's kinda like art that way Bear...you might not have a discrete definition that will please everyone and have unanimity in what "art" really is.... but when our hearts rise at the glory of a sunrise or a sunset, when we watch our children playing in the backyard...when we manage our behaviors and our habits wisely..it is tomorrow that we have in mind...
America doesn't care if there's a tomorrow, what America care's about is that the wealthiest one percent of all human beings on this planet maintain their exclusive entitlement.

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
And where have I dissagreed with this side of you, nothing in that post is incorrect, well according to this Bear anyways. You seem to be preaching to the choir here.
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany have been eliminated, niether represents a threat to the planet of today, we must judge the present empire with the same criteria used to isolate and eliminate those of the past. The American Empire represents a clear and present danger over and above any other potential or extant peril. We must deal with the present and forge the future with the available criteria
of past wrongs gained with the lives of many millions of victims. The stupidity of imperialism is not a matter of debate but very much a forgone conclusion. The fact of American Imperialism is not open for debate even by the ruling class of the USA who have freely addmitted thier belief in and intent of global dominion.

Yep, but I noticed you didn't denounce the two other 'evil' entities either. Nor did you mention that the new 'evil empire was a contributing force in the vanquash of the other two.
 
darkbeaver
#182
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Yes we have agreed on said things, but I am challenging the validity of the claims that it is the actions of the US foriegn policy as it were, that is the essence of the issue of Canadas anti Americanism.

I have said it before and I'll say it again, it is based in the national inferiority complex, formulated and fueled by the socialist left trying to squash our natura and true history, to make it again in the rivisionist image.

My only other concern and the reason for my continued post regarding the likes of Russia, nazism and so on. Those that are trying valiantly to explain and or justify anti Americanism as solely the fault of the US and it actions, seem to be selective in what they find offensive and how they allow that to guide their commentary. I didn't just show up, I have read many of the old people stating the same old thing over and over.

The half baked notion of inferiority complex is an argument used by the present US administration
to explain global disapproval of American policy. In Canada we have a superiority complex if we have any complex at all.
 
CDNBear
#183
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

The half baked notion of inferiority complex is an argument used by the present US administration
to explain global disapproval of American policy. In Canada we have a superiority complex if we have any complex at all.

And that is exampled by Canadian Heritage (external - login to view) . You must be right. So right that we need a Ministry to tell us our heritage while it is left out of the history books.

I think you confused smug left elitist self righteousness for superiority. Don't worry, it's a common mistake. Hell even the Liberals and NDP can diferenciate between the two.
 
darkbeaver
#184
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

And where have I dissagreed with this side of you, nothing in that post is incorrect, well according to this Bear anyways. You seem to be preaching to the choir here.

Yep, but I noticed you didn't denounce the two other 'evil' entities either. Nor did you mention that the new 'evil empire was a contributing force in the vanquash of the other two.

Very observant of you Bear, you will no doubt have noticed I failed to denounce the Japanease Empire as well and I failed to mention Genghis Khan and Attila. When a shark eats a shark does it become a teddy bear?
 
CDNBear
#185
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Very observant of you Bear, you will no doubt have noticed I failed to denounce the Japanease Empire as well and I failed to mention Genghis Khan and Attila. When a shark eats a shark does it become a teddy bear?

Thanx hunny, I love it when the girls call me teddy.
 
CDNBear
#186
So when an elitist oozes anti US sentiments over the trangression of the US, but does not express the same outrage at the rest of the tyrannical regimes, does that not an elitist hypocrit make?
 
darkbeaver
#187
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

And that is exampled by Canadian Heritage (external - login to view) . You must be right. So right that we need a Ministry to tell us our heritage while it is left out of the history books.

I think you confused smug left elitist self righteousness for superiority. Don't worry, it's a common mistake. Hell even the Liberals and NDP can diferenciate between the two.

The topic is Canadian anti-Americanism, if you want to make simple minded jokes there is a comedy forum where clowns are appreciated.
 
CDNBear
#188
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

The topic is Canadian anti-Americanism, if you want to make simple minded jokes there is a comedy forum where clowns are appreciated.

Just another fine example of selected outrage, your hypocracy stinks, your failure to refute, hidden behind tears of indignation, I'm not buying it.
 
darkbeaver
#189
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

And that is exampled by Canadian Heritage (external - login to view) . You must be right. So right that we need a Ministry to tell us our heritage while it is left out of the history books.

I think you confused smug left elitist self righteousness for superiority. Don't worry, it's a common mistake. Hell even the Liberals and NDP can diferenciate between the two.

The topic is Canadian anti-Americanism, if you want to make simple minded under cooked observations there is a comedy forum where clownlike buffonery is appreciated.
 
CDNBear
#190
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

The topic is Canadian anti-Americanism, if you want to make simple minded under cooked observations there is a comedy forum where clownlike buffonery is appreciated.

Not only do perpetuate the stereotype, exude hypocracy at every turn, you highlite it.

When you can not refute, just insult...

12. When in doubt, insult: If you forget the other 11 rules, remember this one. At some point during your wonderful career as a Liberal troll you will undoubtedly end up in a flame war with someone who is better than you. This person will expose your lies, tear apart your arguments, make you look generally like a freaking retard. At this point, there’s only one thing to do: INSULT THE DIRTBAG!!! “Oh yeah? Well, your mother does strange things with vegetables.”

Hey you used rule 12 of the GUIDE BOOK FOR LIBERAL TROLLS, good for you. Whats next, point my spelling and grammarical errors.

Look out your cred and platform are falling apart.
 
darkbeaver
#191
I think you could become a little better at dissin with some practice. I might be wrong though. You should try the quality over quantity avenue. Anyway my old dial-up is to slow right now to let me play with you like I want to. You are lots of fun.
 
CDNBear
#192
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

I think you could become a little better at dissin with some practice. I might be wrong though. You should try the quality over quantity avenue. Anyway my old dial-up is to slow right now to let me play with you like I want to. You are lots of fun.

Still nothing, I always thought it was dogs that resembled their owners, not dial up connections?

I find it rather telling that in each tete et tete you and I have had, you are the first to fold and resort to the childish banter of the play ground. Although I will wallow in those mires, I do try to avoid straight up name calling, unlike yourself, I tend to mix my insults in with more facts. I guess when your factually bankrupt, like yourself, one has to go with what is easiest.
Last edited by CDNBear; Feb 7th, 2007 at 01:28 PM..
 
thomaska
#193
Well, I waited until page 11 of this silliness to post. So, here goes...

I think it must be kept in mind that the topic started to engage everyone in some debate. Good; Mission Accomplished.

Now it's turned into a flame fest of sorts, so in order to get everyone back on topic...you know American arrogance and whatnot...

Let me be the first gun-toting, member of the Imperial Marine Corps of Amerikkka to say:

I don't give a rats *** if Canadians don't like me or my Country. But don't worry, the lack of concern is global, it isn't just directed to you , our Northern neighbors.

But isn't it nice that we all live in societies where we have the choice to hate each others guts? At least we don't have to go to state sponsored "Death to _______<------insert flavor of the month country here" every friday afternoon.

As individuals, I'm sure there are those of you who I would like and those I wouldn't. Someone of you I would seek approval from. Others' approval I would avoid like hemmoragic fever.

So whatever. I know there are those that don't care if I dont care what people or nations think of me. All I have to say to that is...at least we have one similarity.
 
CDNBear
#194
Quote: Originally Posted by thomaskaView Post

Well, I waited until page 11 of this silliness to post. So, here goes...

I think it must be kept in mind that the topic started to engage everyone in some debate. Good; Mission Accomplished.

Now it's turned into a flame fest of sorts, so in order to get everyone back on topic...you know American arrogance and whatnot...

Let me be the first gun-toting, member of the Imperial Marine Corps of Amerikkka to say:

I don't give a rats *** if Canadians don't like me or my Country. But don't worry, the lack of concern is global, it isn't just directed to you , our Northern neighbors.

But isn't it nice that we all live in societies where we have the choice to hate each others guts? At least we don't have to go to state sponsored "Death to _______<------insert flavor of the month country here" every friday afternoon.

As individuals, I'm sure there are those of you who I would like and those I wouldn't. Someone of you I would seek approval from. Others' approval I would avoid like hemmoragic fever.

So whatever. I know there are those that don't care if I dont care what people or nations think of me. All I have to say to that is...at least we have one similarity.

Semper Fidelis

Je me souviens!
 
hermanntrude
#195
it's pretty dumb of any country to actually be anti-any-other-country since that just leads to poor relations and hatred and war. As for canada and the US, the two of you share a giant border and even sandwich each other (ok ok the US sandwiches canada if uw ant to be specific), so some co-dependance seems obvious so u may as well get along.
 
thomaska
#196
Don't see much America hate going on here...but then again, as I'm sure someone will point out...it is Ft Henry.


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7416d6b0ea



Sorry for the Blackleafesque post...
 
darkbeaver
#197
Quote: Originally Posted by hermanntrudeView Post

it's pretty dumb of any country to actually be anti-any-other-country since that just leads to poor relations and hatred and war. As for canada and the US, the two of you share a giant border and even sandwich each other (ok ok the US sandwiches canada if uw ant to be specific), so some co-dependance seems obvious so u may as well get along.

I agree, so you don't approve of the following, and think thier dumb, Anti Iraq, Anti Iran, Anti Syria,
Anti Somalia, Anti China, American forigne policy is based on negativism and false victimization of Americans.
 
darkbeaver
#198
Quote: Originally Posted by thomaskaView Post

Well, I waited until page 11 of this silliness to post. So, here goes...

I think it must be kept in mind that the topic started to engage everyone in some debate. Good; Mission Accomplished.

Now it's turned into a flame fest of sorts, so in order to get everyone back on topic...you know American arrogance and whatnot...

Let me be the first gun-toting, member of the Imperial Marine Corps of Amerikkka to say:

I don't give a rats *** if Canadians don't like me or my Country. But don't worry, the lack of concern is global, it isn't just directed to you , our Northern neighbors.

But isn't it nice that we all live in societies where we have the choice to hate each others guts? At least we don't have to go to state sponsored "Death to _______<------insert flavor of the month country here" every friday afternoon.

As individuals, I'm sure there are those of you who I would like and those I wouldn't. Someone of you I would seek approval from. Others' approval I would avoid like hemmoragic fever.

So whatever. I know there are those that don't care if I dont care what people or nations think of me. All I have to say to that is...at least we have one similarity.

If you didn't care Thomaska you would not have bothered to post. But you did.You want us to believe that you don't care what the world thinks about you or American policy. You made the effort to express your lack of concern for the anti-American sentiment. That is the problem, the general American lack of concern for the rest of the planet.
 
hermanntrude
#199
yes i think that all disagreements between countries are essentially dumb, but i also know that human nature is to fight bloody wars over such issues as religion and race hatred and i know i can';t stop it
 
thomaska
#200
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

If you didn't care Thomaska you would not have bothered to post. But you did.You want us to believe that you don't care what the world thinks about you or American policy. You made the effort to express your lack of concern for the anti-American sentiment. That is the problem, the general American lack of concern for the rest of the planet.

Beaver,

There can't possibly be anyone else on Canadian Content who seeks approval from everyone more than you.

See, I took that Psych 101 class too, so now I'm Freud. Just like you
 
darkbeaver
#201
Quote: Originally Posted by thomaskaView Post

Beaver,

There can't possibly be anyone else on Canadian Content who seeks approval from everyone more than you.

See, I took that Psych 101 class too, so now I'm Freud. Just like you

So are you saying that disapproval is what we should post for or should we all just be rugged individuals and piss in the wind and with no expectations. I like the Jungian stuff.
 
gopher
#202
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Anti-Americanism is a sign of healthy thinking and not a disease. To be aware of the empires crimes against humanity and still support its gluttonous bottomless greed is evil and counter to all that is good
and right.

Bingo! And the patriotic majority of the USA echoes those same sentiments every day. That is why we voted as we did last November.

For anyone to say that objecting to Bush's war or to the right winger's plans of world conquest is "America hatred" suggests that the majority of Americans are, somehow, unpatriotic. And that is a totally absurd idea.
 
I think not
#203
What? Losing steam?

Why anti-Americanism is as Canadian as maple syrup by W.T. Stanbury

Mar 31, 2003

There have been two recent, widely-reported examples of anti-Americanism by Canadians of some official stature. According to Francie Ducros, then director of communications for Prime Minister Jean Chrétien, U.S. President George Bush is "a moron." Liberal MP Carolyn Parrish's condemnation was far wider: "Damn Americans. I hate those bastards." These comments are not isolated, but are part of a wider and deeper phenomenon.

Anti-Americanism is a sort of "legitimate prejudice" in a world of increasingly stringent political correctness. "Substitute any other group for 'Americans' in Ms. Parrish's comments – "Damn Palestinians – hate those bastards' or Damn Africans – hate those bastards – and imagine the firestorm" (National Post editorial, Feb. 28, 2003). The U.S. is a wonderful whipping-person – so large, so rich, so many nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, such a powerful set of widely-shared values, and such a successful exporter of popular culture. What's not to "hate" (loathe) if one is an insecure Canadian?

In stark outline, here is my theory of the bases of the wide streak of anti-Americanism among some Canadians. The root cause is those Canadians' appreciation of their weakness, a serious inferiority complex if you will. Feelings of weakness or inadequacy – even if inchoate – generate a sense of insecurity and even of fear. Insecurity and fear, in turn, generate hostility to the country against which Canada is so evidently weak – the United States.

The sources of Canada's weakness are several. First, the U.S. has a population of 287 million to Canada's 31 million. Yet Canada's area is slightly greater than the U.S. More importantly, the real per capita GDP of the U.S. is over 20 per cent above that of Canada. This reality breeds resentment and even loathing by some Canadians.

The weakness of Canada is also partly due to its dependency on the U.S. in economic terms. Canada has long been dependent on the U.S. economy and this dependency has grown under the FTA and then, NAFTA. CanWest News Service (owner of the National Post) (Nov. 28, 2002) put it this way: In 1970, 65 per cent of Canada's exports went to the U.S.; today it is 87 per cent. That amounts to over 40 per cent of our GDP. "We trade more with the Americans than with each other," referring to inter-provincial trade. While Canada is the No. 1 export market for U.S. products and services, the relative dependency is highly asymmetric. We need them far more than they need us.

Second, the U.S. is now the only superpower and this fact alone is threatening to many Canadians. Such power is seen as immoral in itself and so its exercise is also immoral in the eyes of many of the critics of the U.S. Prime Minister Chrétien, for example, believes that the United Nations must play an important role in constraining the power of the U.S. Christie Blatchford (National Post, Feb. 14, 2003) quotes Prime Minister Chrétien in a speech in Chicago on Feb. 13, 2003: "The price of being the world's only superpower is that its motives are sometimes questioned by others. Great strength is not always perceived by others as benign. Not everyone around the world is prepared to take the word of the United States on faith." He clearly implied that Canada was one of those nations.

Being a superpower comes with many burdens and painful decisions. American taxpayers pay a big chunk of their taxes each year to support their military forces. For them, Canada is seen as a carping, free-rider benefiting greatly from the U.S. defence umbrella. Even Canada's role in peacekeeping has shrunken greatly. Jonah Goldberg, writing in the National Review in November, 2002, noted that, "Today, Canada ranks number 37 as a peacekeeping nation in terms of committed troops and resources, and it spends less than half the average of the skinflint defence budgets of NATO."

Since the early 1960s, Canada has systematically chosen to greatly expand social expenditures (health and income transfers including regional development) at the expense of defence and international expenditures. (Canadians should remember that in WWI and WWII, a larger proportion of the population fought and died than was the case in the U.S.) The self-righteousness of much of the elite on the international stage appears to have grown in inverse relationship to the declining relative importance of Canada's defence/international expenditures.

The U.S. is not only powerful economically and militarily, but its people are seen as aggressive, swaggering and self-confident. These characteristics are the antithesis of the Canadians most critical of the U.S.

Americans are also seen as insensitive due largely to having great power, but being inward-looking.

The third source of weakness lies in the easy acceptance/strong desire for U.S.-made products of pop culture by Canadians. For example, U.S.-made shows account for over 70 per cent the TV viewing of English-Canadians; American movies account for over 95 per cent of box office receipts in Canada. The export of U.S. cultural products is seen by Canadian cultural nationalists as a form of "cultural imperialism."

Why do they feel so threatened? They apparently believe that the importation of U.S. popular cultural products will lead eventually to the demise of Canada as an independent nation. According to Canadian playwright, director, and actor Mavor Moore (1997, p. 12, "Modern Americans have made a masterful discovery...a secret weapon enlisted in the Star Wars dialogue: popular culture. Camouflaging its armies as entertainers, America has conquered the world....What American leaders have grasped....is that politics, commerce and war are no longer the most effective methods of gaining or establishing power – and indeed often prove counterproductive."

There is an important element of elitism mixed into the nationalism. To a considerable extent, such elitism reflects Canada's colonial past (based on both the British and French heritage). The elites believe that they have both the right and duty to use the power of the state to guide the "masses" into the light. They implicitly believe that they have the patent on the definition of what Canada ought to be.

Fourth, the feelings of inferiority and insecurity that prompt expressions of anti-Americanism stem in part from a terribly weak sense of national identity among English Canadians. (Quebecers have a much stronger sense of who they are, in large degree based on hostility to the rest of Canada.) Since major changes in immigration policy in the 1960s, anglo identity has been strongly challenged by a long, large wave of non-European immigrants such that over the past six years over one-half of all immigrants to Canada came from Asia. Trudeau's policy of multi-culturalism within official bilingualism (announced in 1971) greatly strengthened the rise of the French fact in Canadian politics. It is possible, that the interaction of the two policies has channelled the frustration of anglos away from domestic targets (because any criticism will be denounced as racism), and onto the United States in a weird form of psychological displacement.

Finally, there seems to be the idea that the poor and weak, by definition, have morality on their side since they do not appear to benefit directly from the stance they take. Deputy Prime Minister John Manley put it this way: "I think it is a sign of our insecurity, that sometimes we feel that we have a moral conviction that we are somehow or another superior [to the U.S.]" (National Post, Dec. 4, 2002). The weak gain a perverse satisfaction from verbal barbs directed at the strong. The strong are inhibited from administering a physical or economic response. The weak see these barbs as "free" – they will not result in retaliation.

In summary terms, Canadians who are strongly anti-American appear to be a) fearful about the influence of the U.S. on Canada, b) insecure as to their own identity –­ they need reassurance from a variety government-created symbols (such as the CBC), and c) these Canadians are more than a little envious of our rich, powerful, southern neighbour. Contemplation of the American elephant – sadly – brings out the dark side of the character of the Canadian mouse – envy. It is a sort of national ***** (genital?) envy wrapped in a blanket of moral superiority that is the natural refuge of the woefully insecure and the truly weak. There are lots of good reasons to criticize various policies of the U.S. government, but surely reflexive anti-Americanism is unworthy of what Canadians want to be.

W.T. Stanbury is professor emeritus at the University of British Columbia.

www.friends.ca/News/Friends_N...es03310301.asp (external - login to view)

 
Curiosity
#204
ITN

Now you've done it again.....I hoped you'd never find Stanbury's old essay... when it was first published I managed to get through it with a prayer that nobody would reproduce it on a Canadian forum and here it is....

Nothing really new because I think in all of the "debates" and "fights" much of what he writes has been discussed in more personal terms by people on Canadian forums with the various U.S. intruders.... but one line is the thought which concerns me most....


Quote:

Contemplation of the American elephant – sadly – brings out the dark side of the character of the Canadian mouse – envy.



Is it merely envy or fear or disagreement with the path the U.S. has followed in its evolution from the early days of muskets and horseback.... ? Has Canada become the nanny of the western world, constantly serving a plate of bitter oatmeal instead of a fine long table of food and comeraderie celebrating our long peace and trade and sharing of untold benefits over our short histories - putting the Europeans and other nations to shame with their manic wars and land seizing and people capturing....and "colonialization of the savages" in less civilized places of the world.

Whatever the divisive feelings between the two nations is a problem for me because I think it is of great import for both nations to nurture and preserve the long border as one of peace rather than separation. The U.S. is not an elephant and Canada is not a mouse. They are unique, free, prosperous and forward-thinking peoples. For them to be competing is self-defeating.

Reading the commentary here by many however I think there is no compromise allowed and until every last American bone is scraped of substances and chewed upon and spit out... the majority of Canadians will continue this replacement for contact sport.... this "politics" kind of scenario which sadly feeds only the ego - and not the bank account.

A proud a poor but independent nation... is that how Canadians envision their future? The final separation having been served, shut the door, stop the flow of trade, defensive military cooperation, monetary benefits and then what?
 
jimmoyer
#205
It is too glib to pass of all Canadian criticism of United States as just jealous envy
or some inferiority complex.

I think it is a natural reaction to living next to a larger than life messy sprawling Giant .

Ever since the German who popularized Amerigo Vespucci's oversized map representing us,
we've had this larger than life gusto enshrouding our natural borne hypocrisies.

But those anti-American Canadians' logic backing up their emotion certainly requires further challenge, for they are quite selective in their indignation and rationalize it because we
are a nuclear superpower.

They feel almost smugly content that this reasoning is solid for their righteousness.
 
CDNBear
#206
Quote: Originally Posted by jimmoyerView Post

It is too glib to pass of all Canadian criticism of United States as just jealous envy
or some inferiority complex.

I think it is a natural reaction to living next to a larger than life messy sprawling Giant .

Ever since the German who popularized Amerigo Vespucci's oversized map representing us,
we've had this larger than life gusto enshrouding our natural borne hypocrisies.

But those anti-American Canadians' logic backing up their emotion certainly requires further challenge, for they are quite selective in their indignation and rationalize it because we
are a nuclear superpower.

They feel almost smugly content that this reasoning is solid for their righteousness.

Absolutely correct!!!

BRAVO!!!
 
TomG
#207
From several recent posts:

Renė Descartes walked into a bar. The bartender says ‘Hey Renė how you doing. Having a beer today?’ Renė says ‘well, er, um…no. I think not’ and disappeared.

The joke is contained in the book ‘The Know It All.’ Fitting perhaps. Quoting a Canadian professor emeritus at great length is similar to quoting a Canadian senator. Space that could be put to no better use. Not.

I’d say that it’s human nature to seek advantage and avoid disadvantage. I’m not sure it’s natural at all for humans to live in mass society nation states. Nations don’t have
conflicts because they are, well just nations—constructs that only exist in the mind. National leaders have illusions of advantage or disadvantage that frequently produce conflict and war. It’s leaders who have conflicts, perhaps because they believe they lead us and have duties and obligations.

To individuals or small bands advantage has immediacy. We know what we face. We can see what another has that may benefit us, and we also know the potential of injury or death for ourselves if we seek to take what another has. We temper what we want since the cost of it is immediate and apparent. However, we know nothing of immediacy in our national lives. Our individual advantage has all the reality of images of dancing light on phosphorescent screens or black marks machined on white paper. For that is how we participate in our national lives we consume that which has the same guarantee of reality as do fairy tales. Anything is possible in a fairy tale except that which can’t be imagined by the author. In fairy tales there are no guides for right and wrong and there are no reality checks. You just believe. In fairy taales. we allow our lives to be reduced to ‘Please tell me a story before I go to sleep.’ And who, you might ask, would tell those stories and why. Any what you might ask can we possible know of the tellers of stories whom we know only as dancing light or black marks. What can we possibly know of our leaders? What can we possible know of our advantage expressed through our national lives? We may as well dream it—which takes us back to Renė. Oh yes, some of us vote.

For god’s sake just take back ownership of your own lives by living them and being responsible for them. Nobody else can be responsible for them unless life really is just listening to bedtime stories. You’ll likely find that everybody’s life is valid and deserves respect, and our leaders have little more to offer than do each of us. All the anti’s in our national lives are fairly tales until we live them.

For military types who carry on and posture, reading Beowulf might be good. It’s a manly warrior’s tale, and warrior lessons abound. Lessons for us all abound. In its reading, warriors might ponder whether you serve Hrothgar or Beowulf, and what might await you. Some lessons I took from Beowulf were that a leader must lead and a hero must be heroic. Rich kingdoms are beset by nightmares. Rich kings who hire heroes to confront the nightmares loose that which they love best and their kingdoms are never heard of again. Heroes find that they must confront a nightmare themselves. There is no help, and once a nightmare is confronted, then the mother of that nightmare must be confronted. Heroes also learn that ultimately they must do it themselves. Weapons prove unreliable, age is relentless, and eventually there must be new heroes. Ultimately nothing changes. There always rumors of wars.

Beowulf seems the essential handbook for a western warrior. A warrior who can’t find themselves in the tale might do well to seek another occupation. But really, heroes belong in fairy tales. Do we know of any among our present leaders you might ask, or perhaps not ask? Read or perhaps not read. The Seamus Henney translation is good but the Norton Anthology version is OK too. And after Beowulf, The Rite of the Ancient Mariner is good. The literature and poetry from our culture carries more truth than does the network news. The truth is that our national lives remain little different from those of the Norse raiders, but in that view of life nothing eve changes. Wars and rumors of wars persist. Those who serve die and for no good purpose
 
look3467
#208
Not to mention that the US of A is probably the largest donor of monies to needy countries and builders of natural desastered countries.
We are truly a giving people.
My opinion.

Peace>>>AJ
 
ottawabill
#209
Quote: Originally Posted by look3467View Post

Not to mention that the US of A is probably the largest donor of monies to needy countries and builders of natural desastered countries.
We are truly a giving people.
My opinion.

Peace>>>AJ

yep!! It's funny how many people confuse Government policies of Nations with the people of the Nation. Are Canadains now more conservative since we have a Conservative Government..Do all the Liberals on these threads believe in everything their Conservative Government is doing....

There are More American's who disagree with Bush then Canadians alive!!!

It's also funny of how much U.S. bashing goes on while tons of Canadians head south every winter, watch mainly U.S. tv, adore American actors and singers...glues to American Idol, Cheer the Superbowl while eating a big Mac.. and if offered take the U.S. job and move within the month....

I don't personally think the U.S. is better or worse than Canada..just different.....just different...like the difference between Newfoundland and B.C...
 
jimmoyer
#210
I’m not sure it’s natural at all for humans to live in mass society nation states. Nations don’t have
conflicts because they are, well just nations—constructs that only exist in the mind. National leaders have illusions of advantage or disadvantage that frequently produce conflict and war. It’s leaders who have conflicts, perhaps because they believe they lead us and have duties and obligations.

To individuals or small bands advantage has immediacy.


We know what we face.

We can see what another has that may benefit us, and we also know the potential of injury or death for ourselves if we seek to take what another has.

We temper what we want since the cost of it is immediate and apparent. However, we know nothing of immediacy in our national lives.

Our individual advantage has all the reality of images of dancing light on phosphorescent screens or black marks machined on white paper. For that is how we participate in our national lives we consume that which has the same guarantee of reality as do fairy tales. Anything is possible in a fairy tale except that which can’t be imagined by the author. In fairy tales there are no guides for right and wrong and there are no reality checks. You just believe. In fairy taales. we allow our lives to be reduced to ‘Please tell me a story before I go to sleep.’ And who, you might ask, would tell those stories and why. Any what you might ask can we possible know of the tellers of stories whom we know only as dancing light or black marks. What can we possibly know of our leaders? What can we possible know of our advantage expressed through our national lives? We may as well dream it....

------------------------------------TomG------------------------------------------------

WOW !!

Incredibly insightful.

Absolutely interesting point.


 

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