UK settles WWII debts to allies


Daz_Hockey
#1
I was shocked to read this, did you know Britain owed so much in monetary terms to both the USA and CANADA?......in a way, as an Englishman, it sickens me because, however you cut it, Britain fought alone to save democracy in the world also I didnt realise we needed to loan money off our own empire to fight the most evil power in history.

Take note ITN, we dont owe you anymore lol

UK settles WWII debts to allies



Britain needed money for reconstruction and importing food

Britain will settle its World War II debts to the US and Canada when it pays two final instalments before the close of 2006, the Treasury has said.
The payments of $83.25m (42.5m) to the US and US$22.7m (11.6m) to Canada are the last of 50 instalments since 1950.
The amount paid back is nearly double that loaned in 1945 and 1946. "This week we finally honour in full our commitments to the US and Canada for the support they gave us 60 years ago," said Treasury Minister Ed Balls.
"It was vital support which helped Britain defeat Nazi Germany and secure peace and prosperity in the post-war period. We honour our commitments to them now as they honoured their commitments to us all those years ago," he added.
The last payments will be made on Friday, the final working day of the year.
Deferred
Under the lend-lease programme, which began in March 1941, the then neutral US could provide countries fighting Adolf Hitler with war material.
The US joined the war soon after - in the wake of the attack on Pearl Harbour - and the programme ended in 1945.
Equipment left over in Britain at the end of hostilities and still needed had to be paid for.
The US loaned $4.33bn (2.2bn) to Britain in 1945, while Canada loaned US$1.19 bn (607m) in 1946, at a rate of 2% annual interest.
Upon the final payments, the UK will have paid back a total of $7.5bn (3.8bn) to the US and US$2 bn (1bn) to Canada. Despite the favourable rates there were six years in which Britain deferred payment because of economic or political crises. There are still World War I debts owed to and by Britain. Since a moratorium on all debts from that conflict was agreed at the height of the Great Depression, no repayments have been made to or received from other nations since 1934."
 
RomSpaceKnight
#2
Britain did not fight alone! Canada was right there with them. By wars end Canada had the 3rd largest navy in the world. We did our part from day one to keep the N. Atlantic open and get supplies to Britain. We supplied many crews for Bomber Command and Fighter Command. We had our own beach on D-day. We had 10% of the allies population yet supplied 25% of the men who went ashore on D-day. Plus figured heavily in the Italian campaign. We had more men under arms per capita than any of the ex-colonies or the states.

War costs money plain and simple. Wage and price controls are enacted but companies are still paid for the arms and ammunition they supply to goverments waging war. People still expect to get paid during wartime.

You will notice that even with 10x the population and industry the states only loaned Britain 4x what Canada did.
 
Daz_Hockey
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by RomSpaceKnightView Post

Britain did not fight alone! Canada was right there with them. By wars end Canada had the 3rd largest navy in the world. We did our part from day one to keep the N. Atlantic open and get supplies to Britain. We supplied many crews for Bomber Command and Fighter Command. We had our own beach on D-day. We had 10% of the allies population yet supplied 25% of the men who went ashore on D-day. Plus figured heavily in the Italian campaign. We had more men under arms per capita than any of the ex-colonies or the states.

War costs money plain and simple. Wage and price controls are enacted but companies are still paid for the arms and ammunition they supply to goverments waging war. People still expect to get paid during wartime.

You will notice that even with 10x the population and industry the states only loaned Britain 4x what Canada did.


I will quote myself again, because you seem not to understand, I do not understand why Britain had to loan money off it's own Empire.....the US I understand the shylockian state that it is....and the Marshall plan was effectivly what we were after all along, we should have cried "communism" and we'd not have paid a penny.

But to force Britain to make it's pound exchangable to the Dollar was going to ruin us anyway...gratitude eh?.

in the end, it was my country being bombed to kingdom-come, not yours, no offense, and if we fell, you (in the words of Winston Churchill) would surely have fallen into the abyss too
 
Colpy
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_HockeyView Post

I will quote myself again, because you seem not to understand, I do not understand why Britain had to loan money off it's own Empire.....the US I understand the shylockian state that it is....and the Marshall plan was effectivly what we were after all along, we should have cried "communism" and we'd not have paid a penny.

But to force Britain to make it's pound exchangable to the Dollar was going to ruin us anyway...gratitude eh?.

in the end, it was my country being bombed to kingdom-come, not yours, no offense, and if we fell, you (in the words of Winston Churchill) would surely have fallen into the abyss too

Ah, I don't think so.

We are an ocean away. We could have abandoned you, and set up fortress North America. Considering that the United States surpassed the war production of Germany and Japan combined within 6 months of entering the war, it would have been simply suicidal for them to attack us.

Instead we did the right thing, and came to the aid of our friends............and, BTW, in real terms the "Empire" has meant SQUAT since the 1920s.

The Yanks, although it took them a couple of years to come around, helped in a number of ways......lend-lease and de facto if not de jure war on German subs in the Atlantic......

So pay up, and smile while you do it.

 
RomSpaceKnight
#5
Canada was an independent country in 1939. We had no obligation to follow England in to war. We went because it was the RIGHT thing to do. I was born in Hull, Yorkshire. My parensst were both evacuated during the early days of the bombing. Hull is a major port and took a good pounding. More so after Russia joined the allies as Hull was the starting point for convoys to Murmansk.

Canada would not have gone in to the abyss. The Atlantic would have protected us for quite a while. Lets leave it to the sci-fi writers to figure out how the world would be today if Hitler had beaten Britain.
 
Daz_Hockey
#6
When the whole world around you turned communist/facist you'd have had a problem, and no ocean could have saved your ignorance.

I dont mean to be rude, and I understand the massive help that Canada and the US brought to the free world (because, come on, it was about more than the UK) so in the space of 20 years Britain went from one-in-the-same to just another country to squeeze money from?...nice
 
RomSpaceKnight
#7
Oh yes it would have. Nazi germany would have been tied up for ageneration or so trying to subdue Russia fully. Racial hatred would have had them go to war with Japan long before they got around to North or South America. We would have had more than enough time to develop the bomb and the means to protect ourselves. There is nothing to say that the Nazis could have even beaten Russia. Russia won WWII. The Americans just stopped France from going communist. What's a few billion dollars compared to having you bacon saved. Pittance and lousy pittance.
 
Daz_Hockey
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by RomSpaceKnightView Post

Oh yes it would have. Nazi germany would have been tied up for ageneration or so trying to subdue Russia fully. Racial hatred would have had them go to war with Japan long before they got around to North or South America. We would have had more than enough time to develop the bomb and the means to protect ourselves. There is nothing to say that the Nazis could have even beaten Russia. Russia won WWII. The Americans just stopped France from going communist. What's a few billion dollars compared to having you bacon saved. Pittance and lousy pittance.

That "lousy pittance" crippled us.

Germany was very close to building the bomb, most south American countries were facist, a pseudo-British Vichy government would have been set up in britain and in it's colonies (although there was actually a large pro-nazi party in the US anyway, so would Canada toe the appeasement line?....probably, besides, Canada or the US probably wouldnt have gone to war with the Nazi's.

But the world would certainly have been very different.

it just makes most Briton's wonder who WERE our allies, the one's who no-doubt were envious and in a lot of ways mimicing us or the people bleeding us dry and crippling us as a nation.
 
darkbeaver
#9
Well now that you've got that out of the way you can start paying war reparations to Iraq.
 
RomSpaceKnight
#10
Canada has always been a loyal ally and friend to Britain. We are fully aware of our country's origin and history. You discredit that history and friendship. War is a nasty, brutal and totally unfair thing. Even the victor suffers to some extent. Be glad you aren't Polish.
 
Colpy
#11
I thought a bit about this......

I would imagine the war debt owed us by Great Britain was for arms and material used by British armed forces.

It is one thing for Canada to join in the struggle, and to go deeply in debt to arm, train, transport, supply etc. her own troops in aid of Britain........it is quite another for our people to go deeply into debt arming the British military.

Damn, if the USA and Canada hadn't charged the Brits for the things we sent them, they would have been much better off than us at the end of the war..........some thanks for helping out........

I think, Daz, you are looking at this from the wrong angle.......

Canada's military expenses incurred helping Britain fight Hitler? Canada pays.

British military expenses incurred fighting Hitler? Britain pays.

Makes sense to me.
 
RomSpaceKnight
#12
True. Canada and US at time were/are huge resource rich countries. We could just dig up some gold and/or oil and voila, cash in hand. Britains service and manufacturing based economy would take awhile to make the money and pay it back.
 
I think not
#13
WTF Daz.

All of the ex-colonies were sent to protect the defunct British Empire. You sent the Canadians half way around the world to Hong Kong to defend what? A mud city along the seashore. Almost ALL of the ex-colonies were sent to protect British acquisitions during the height of the British Empire. And you didn't want to lose them? Cry me a river. They were never yours to begin with.
 
tamarin
#14
Oh, come on. What agencies would usually do in such a situation is set up a sequestered fund, with the highest interest rate possible locked in, and then pay off a debt from this fund using the accrued interest. Two per cent!!! What a deal! It wasn't that long ago that the Brits could have locked in far higher rates of interest than that and then used that fund for payments.
 
Daz_Hockey
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by I think notView Post

WTF Daz.

All of the ex-colonies were sent to protect the defunct British Empire. You sent the Canadians half way around the world to Hong Kong to defend what? A mud city along the seashore. Almost ALL of the ex-colonies were sent to protect British acquisitions during the height of the British Empire. And you didn't want to lose them? Cry me a river. They were never yours to begin with.

The empire was ours as much as your states are yours, okay, ours was on a global scale and we pretty much left most of the populations alone and merely exploited them to kingdom come. So we didnt gather up all the the unwanted of this world, invite them on this massive party to all fall in and kick the crap out of the locals and whadayaknow?...we call it a union....nope we didnt do that...maybe that was wrong, maybe we'd have lasted longer if we hadn't of let the few we sent over decide their own destinies.

The "special relationship" was a Churchill thing, did you know that when he made his famous "iron curtain" speech, he was sent to the US to desperatly plead with them not to completly ruin us?, their allies, their last hope in that ancient continent that is Europe?....we knew most American's liked Churchill (again probably because of his largely wealthy American family.....they like their own).

And as for Hong Kong....they lost it in the war, along with Singapore...which was humiliating and should never have been lost with vastly superior numbers.....although they were colonial troops (Australians and Kiwi's) perhaps the reason Britain looked down at Washington as a colonial soldier and not up to much fighting for us could have been true?.
 
RomSpaceKnight
#16
Hong Kong was lightly defended by the Princess Patricia's Light Infantry of the Royal Canadian Army not the Americans. Considering that Chinese mainland was held already by Japaneses troops iot's no wonder the Princess Pats lost. The prisoners taken at Hong Kong were in Japanese custody for longer than anyone. 1 in 4 prisoners died in Japanese POW camps. 1 in 10 in German POW camps and that was late in war when even the Germans had not much to eat.

Careful, touchy subject with Canuck patriots.
 
I think not
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by RomSpaceKnightView Post

Hong Kong was lightly defended by the Princess Patricia's Light Infantry of the Royal Canadian Army not the Americans. Considering that Chinese mainland was held already by Japaneses troops iot's no wonder the Princess Pats lost. The prisoners taken at Hong Kong were in Japanese custody for longer than anyone. 1 in 4 prisoners died in Japanese POW camps. 1 in 10 in German POW camps and that was late in war when even the Germans had not much to eat.

Careful, touchy subject with Canuck patriots.

It was the Royal Rifles of Canada and the Winnipeg Grenadiers.
 
I think not
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_HockeyView Post

The empire was ours as much as your states are yours, okay, ours was on a global scale and we pretty much left most of the populations alone and merely exploited them to kingdom come. So we didnt gather up all the the unwanted of this world, invite them on this massive party to all fall in and kick the crap out of the locals and whadayaknow?...we call it a union....nope we didnt do that...maybe that was wrong, maybe we'd have lasted longer if we hadn't of let the few we sent over decide their own destinies.
The "special relationship" was a Churchill thing, did you know that when he made his famous "iron curtain" speech, he was sent to the US to desperatly plead with them not to completly ruin us?, their allies, their last hope in that ancient continent that is Europe?....we knew most American's liked Churchill (again probably because of his largely wealthy American family.....they like their own).
And as for Hong Kong....they lost it in the war, along with Singapore...which was humiliating and should never have been lost with vastly superior numbers.....although they were colonial troops (Australians and Kiwi's) perhaps the reason Britain looked down at Washington as a colonial soldier and not up to much fighting for us could have been true?.

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Daz, get over it. It was 60 years ago. You needed help, help came. WTF is the problem?
 
Daz_Hockey
#19
and you know why Hong Kong was untouched for so long right....of course you do.

Our colonies were untouched by Japan until we sided with the US
 
I think not
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_HockeyView Post

and you know why Hong Kong was untouched for so long right....of course you do.

Our colonies were untouched by Japan until we sided with the US

Yeah that's a good one. Read your history, Japan struck Hong Kong on December 8th. Think they were mobilized already? Duh!
 
Daz_Hockey
#21
ITN, I havent got a problem, you must realise this is all in jest right?....I dont seriously think Britain was in anyway screwed over by the US or that colonial troops were in any way infearior to anyone else. My name isnt Blackleaf, I'm just gageing a reaction and making conversation however heated.

I only brought it up because I've just been watching this rather funny and somewhat interesting program called "in debt to the yanks" narrated by the 2001 - 2006 British Ambassidor to the US.....I wouldnt let him back in, in future really!!!.

Hope no-one is offended...I'm just finding a way to stay awake thru this assignment and I like good wind-up.
 
L Gilbert
#22
UK settles WWII debts to allies

Shoulda spoke up a few years ago. ChRETIeN had a habit of forgiving the debts of 3rd world countries.
 
tamarin
#23
Well. I'm glad the debt is paid. You never know when a new one will have to be negotiated. We live in troubled times. As a boomer I was never asked to make the sacrifices my father's generation made. But that doesn't make sacrifice or its necessity obsolete. I think there'll come a day in the next twenty years when young Canadians and Brits and Yanks will be asked to do what their great granddads did in WWII. Something far more sinister than an Iraq or Afghanistan.
 
RomSpaceKnight
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by I think notView Post

It was the Royal Rifles of Canada and the Winnipeg Grenadiers.

I stand corrected. Sorry.
 
L Gilbert
#25
I bet you are not. I would bet you are sitting.
 
RomSpaceKnight
#26
I win then. My butt was sore so i stood for a sec. ha ha ha Please hand over your first born or best looking sister please.
 
Zzarchov
#27
See, Britain had to borrow money of "its" empire because it didn't own the empire as slaves anymore than the empire owned Britain. All the empire waged war, Britain was just incompentant in financial matters and was dragging the rest of the empire down.

The British empire did more fighting than Britain, and while many Brave tommies fought alongside the Empires forces, the incompentant British leadership meant it constantly had to be bailed out by India, Australia, Canada and the rest.

See, we can ALL have patriotically blinded accounts of history which still have solid basis in fact.
 
hermanntrude
#28
i'm just happy the debt is paid. It's always a good thing when a debt is paid off, it makes me feel good.
 
L Gilbert
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by RomSpaceKnightView Post

I win then. My butt was sore so i stood for a sec. ha ha ha Please hand over your first born or best looking sister please.

Can't have either of the kids and I'm a lonely child. I'll buy you a stout.

http://beer.trash.net/img/beers/1593.jpg

There ya go.
 

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