Suicide as an alternative?

[Curiosity]

Do you belive in suicide?

Almost every week I see an article or discussion on euthansia - which to me means others involved in the termination of life for various reasons - all of the compassionate and generally dictated under the auspices of some medical team...

But what about suicide? Is it unethical to consider that you would take your own life if you were about to lose your faculties in the near future, the ability to self-care, or even worse to use your rational mind?

Would you decide to take measures to end your life while you could still accomplish it without assistance?

My group debate this over and over with no decisions.

My feeling is we can abort routinely now - but we cannot choose to end our own lives - even within rational parameters. Why not?

 

[selfactivated]

My favorite subject and heavy on my heart as of late. Ive tried to commit suicide many many many times. Obviously I screwed up many many many times. Sometimes life hurts so bad that ending it feels like the only solution. I stopped wanting to end my existance 5 years ago. I met a man on line that made me see that I am a beautiful and Loving woman. He's my soulmate. We talk for hours and hours about this subject (until recently he's had a stroke, his wife let me know last week) Our conversations usually end in him extracting a promise that I'll never hurt myself again and I tell him I promise knowing he'll feel better. In his way of thinking if I hurt myself it will change the cosmic way our lives interact. He thinks we wont be together next life if I cut this life short. And he's right, in his reality we would be doomed to life after life of near misses. But thats not my heart. In my deepest belief I have the choice without retribution of some karmitic punishment. Its my choice. But within my choice I have to think, who would it hurt? Who would care? He would and I love him with all my heart and soul. I love him so much I'll continue in the pain. What happens if he dies? or worse he never remembers me? Well then theres my sister and my girls and those who I touch or will touch in the future. Theres a million ways to approach this question. You have no idea how you helped me with this post. Sometimes a single question can help a strange see the light in the darkness

Namaste

 

[tracy]

I've seen people in conditions who aren't really living, their bodies are merely surviving. In those cases, I don't see anything wrong with euthanasia. I don't know exactly where I'd draw the line, but I don't see why it's my place to prevent someone from ending their lives in the way they choose before a horrible or painful disease does it for them.

 

[Curiosity]

Tracy

But I was asking about suicide. Not involving any other humans (other than the poor clean up crew)....

Euthansia involves decision-making by others which puts them in a terrible place. If it were possible
to end one's life before devastating illness either physical or mental takes over... while one is still of
sound mind and body.... should suicide be accepted as an alternative to a wasting terrible time?

Cowardly or caring? Cowardly because it may be easier - caring because it rips up loved ones watching someone die.

Hospice increase morphine to ease end stages but....that isn't suicide either.

 

[Sassylassie]

I don't think I could ever commit suicide however I have a dear friend who's son committed suicide a year ago. He was molested as a child but he seemed to be coping well he had a girl friend a job and he seemed happy. One night after supper he told his Mother and his girl friend he was going for a walk and when he didn't return his little sister (12 years old) went outside to look for him she found him hanging from a rope attached to a tree. He was only 18 years old, his father, mother little sister and his girl friend are living under a burden of guilt so heavy they can't move on. Joey's pain may of ended but he transfered it to those who loved him, suicide effects those who are left behind. My best friend growing up mother committed suicide then her father committed suicide and when she reached the same age as her mother when she died she comitted suicide. So many healthy people killed themselves, but mental anguish isn't like illness you can't see it unless someone allows you to see the pain they are in.

 

[Curiosity]

Sassy

That was a sad story and so many teens are opting for this - getting drunk and having car accidents - your friend's hanging was a more personalized and organized method - many kids wouldn't bother to choose - they seem to do it on impulse when drunk or stoned....or overdosing

I have been schooled to remediate suicide but if death is impending for someone and there is no hope of
cure or turning back - would you include this kind of hastening death as a guilt trip on loved ones too?

I have thought it would lessen their troubles watching someone have a lengthy journey into death....

 

[Curiosity]

Selfactivated

I am a stranger to you and I don't have any right to say this, but it would seem you are making some habitual choices in your life which are not giving you anything positive.

Why not spend some time going over all the worthwhile traits you have - and how you treat people in your
circle of family and friends and go on a journey of self-discovery to find out where you decided you were unworthy of having an excellent and fulfilled life.

When you find out the cause - dump it. Pick yourself up and find a new path....because no matter where you have been nor what you have done - it's over. You have painful lessons learned. Now find the good
things because we are all promised them - but if we don't feel we are worthy of them - we cease to look.

Start looking and expecting.

 

[Sassylassie]

Sassy

That was a sad story and so many teens are opting for this - getting drunk and having car accidents - your friend's hanging was a more personalized and organized method - many kids wouldn't bother to choose - they seem to do it on impulse when drunk or stoned....or overdosing

I have been schooled to remediate suicide but if death is impending for someone and there is no hope of
cure or turning back - would you include this kind of hastening death as a guilt trip on loved ones too?

I have thought it would lessen their troubles watching someone have a lengthy journey into death....

That is a hard one to answers Curio, personally I don't think I would harbour the same feelings of guilt if a person is truely suffering and in pain and they decided to take there own life but whow it's a hard one to call. Most seriously ill people lack the strengh to commit suicide and often ask others to help them do it, and I cringe because suicide is such a drastic step to take what if a cure is around the corner-so many what ifs for me. Suicide carries such a stigma with it, it's awful when someone asks how did he/she die and you have to say Suicide.

 

[Curiosity]

Sassy

I know the pressures of society - even at the end. What do we want from each other I wonder?

We have a fit when someone who is in pain isn't given pain meds immediately - but when someone is dying with pain - we just sit there and wait?

Self-termination rather than suicide sounds like a decision was made by the deceased.

What a depressing topic! I think it was that stupid Macy's Parade made me think of suicide....punching pin holes in all those dumb balloons ...(sorry)....

 

[selfactivated]

Selfactivated

I am a stranger to you and I don't have any right to say this, but it would seem you are making some habitual choices in your life which are not giving you anything positive.

Why not spend some time going over all the worthwhile traits you have - and how you treat people in your
circle of family and friends and go on a journey of self-discovery to find out where you decided you were unworthy of having an excellent and fulfilled life.

When you find out the cause - dump it. Pick yourself up and find a new path....because no matter where you have been nor what you have done - it's over. You have painful lessons learned. Now find the good
things because we are all promised them - but if we don't feel we are worthy of them - we cease to look.

Start looking and expecting.

yes hun I know. Im on that journey now. Its a miricle after the death of my son and the abandonment of one of my best friends (chief) that I havent sliced my wrists let alone this recent developement with my soulmate. I was joking with my sister that it was a good thing all my knives are dull. She didnt laugh lol. Suicide is my past. Im in more pain now than Ive ever been in my entire life (Ive only share a fraction of it) thats saying something. Suicide is the absence of pain. mental, physical, emotional its all real and noone wants to continuously be in pain. Death is sweet, its slumber and peace. But it inflicts pain on others so can a Pagan that believes in her montra of Do no harm hurt others? No. Not unless shes a hypoctite. And shes not This pain never promised no pain, just truth.

 

[tracy]

Tracy

But I was asking about suicide. Not involving any other humans (other than the poor clean up crew)....

Euthansia involves decision-making by others which puts them in a terrible place. If it were possible
to end one's life before devastating illness either physical or mental takes over... while one is still of
sound mind and body.... should suicide be accepted as an alternative to a wasting terrible time?

Cowardly or caring? Cowardly because it may be easier - caring because it rips up loved ones watching someone die.

Hospice increase morphine to ease end stages but....that isn't suicide either.

Sorry, suicide when it's to avoid a long and debilitating illness doesn't offend me in any way. It may be selfish, but I don't see why someone shouldn't be selfish at that point. I do think suicide is wrong under other circumstances (like because of treatable issues like mental illness), but I can't judge those people. They are in such a terrible state that they can't be condemned for not making a rational decision. They are incapable of it at that point. The best we can do is try to help them.

 

[agentkgb]

I think people should have a right to commit suicide whenever they want, it's their right, though there should be hotlines and the like for people to call if they're thinking about it which would try to work it out.

 

[cortex]

There is no point to senseless suffering if the sufferer cannot find any sense in it. We only own our own lives ---thats in fact all that we really own--no one can say otherwise. All this of course assumes mental competance---a suicidally depressed person for example is in fact a medical emergency and cannot be allowed to terminate their life without at least some form of medical treatment to give their consciousness a chance to reconsider--but a rational choice by a sane individual is another matter.

 

[the caracal kid]

One can rationally decide to end one's own life. There is no ethics or morality involved in such a determination. We can not use arguments regarding the pain and suffering of others caused by a suicide. Such pain and suffering is a result of the "survivor's" manufactured expectations for the future. The reality is people die, no matter how much people protect themselves from this.

Suicide only has a stigma attached to it because of past edicts which were not about helping the individual who would commit suicide, but about preserving the functioning of the power structures.

 

[Curiosity]

CaracalKid

You said a great deal with your choice of words - but I got stuck on the last sentence. Can you enlarge about the "power structures"?

Do you mean religious/legal restrictions?

 

[temperance]

Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary - Cite This Source
Main Entry: 1sui·cide
Pronunciation: 'sü-&-"sId
Function: noun
1 : the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally <the legalistic concept of suicide while of sound mind, which psychiatrically speaking is not possible —Year Book of Neurology, Psychiatry, & Neurosurgery>
2 : a person who commits or attempts suicide
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.WordNet - Cite This Source
suicide
n 1: the act of killing yourself; "it is a crime to commit suicide" [syn: self-destruction, self-annihilation] 2: a person who kills himself intentionally [syn: felo-de-se]


It is a very personal thought and descion
and depending on your belief system ,its meaning could be totally diffrent ,not know what happens after the act it is really hard to answer if it is an alternative, and to what ,
Some find it a selfish act
but then is it not selfish to ask someone to live in pain because you cant stand them to die ?

 

[TenPenny]

I think people should have a right to commit suicide whenever they want, it's their right, though there should be hotlines and the like for people to call if they're thinking about it which would try to work it out.

I agree with that concept if you don't have family, but the problem of suicide is that it dumps the burden on your family. Suicide is really a coward's way out; it's easy to commit suicide, it's harder to deal with living.

 

[the caracal kid]

CaracalKid

You said a great deal with your choice of words - but I got stuck on the last sentence. Can you enlarge about the "power structures"?

Do you mean religious/legal restrictions?

Yes. We know of specific religious and legal motives, but I suspect that there were earlier undocumented examples of the same. As a social creature, early man would possibly have made tribal decisions to prevent suicide.

 

[Nuggler]

Sewer-cide

:grommit:Give it a try. Come back and let us know how it went:read2:

Personally, if I was terminally ill, in a lot of pain 24/7, and life was just a piece of sh@t, I would swallow the gun, preferably before I went into the hospital, cause they keep you there, and your control over your own life is gone.

It's what you call making a decision. Everyone dies alone and has to deal with it.

That's just MHO, for what it's worth. ukeright:

Ugg.:wave:

 

[agentkgb]

I agree with that concept if you don't have family, but the problem of suicide is that it dumps the burden on your family. Suicide is really a coward's way out; it's easy to commit suicide, it's harder to deal with living.

I mostly agree I think and certainly it's not a decision to make without an unimaginable amount of thought, but ultimately it's someone's right to do it I think. Maybe it's cowardly but in some circumstances I think maybe it could be the right decision. Either way there's going to be someone you're leaving behind (unless that's why you're committing suicide maybe), so I would want to discourage it but not outright say it's always the wrong choice.