Renters exceeding their means

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
4,558
48
48
Ontario
www.poetrypoem.com
CBC News
Although most Canadians are living within their means, many renters are spending more than they're making on housing costs, a new Statistics Canada study says.

The study measuring housing affordability found that 31 per cent of renters exceeded their budgets on shelter costs. By comparison, six per cent of homeowners lived outside their means.

"In some households, a high shelter-cost ratio stems from a choice based on spending priorities; in others, it is a valid indicator of housing affordability problems," author Jacqueline Luffman noted in the study, released Wednesday.

Renters who were spending much of their income to keep a roof over their heads were found to be individuals living alone, and low incomes earners. Canadians who relied on government assistance were also particularly vulnerable, the study found.

"Renters with housing affordability problems who had to rely on government transfer payments as their main source of income were almost six times more likely to be cost-burdened compared with wage and salary earners," Luffman said in the report.

The authors measured the concept of affordability using the ratio of housing costs compared with total household income. Typically, a household that spends more than 30 per cent of its pre-tax income on housing is defined as having affordability issues.

In 2004, the average cost for rent or mortgage payments, condo fees, utilities and property taxes was $9,400, about 15 per cent of the average household budget. People in Toronto and Vancouver spent the most on rent while Quebecers spent the least.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
In 2004, the average cost for rent or mortgage payments, condo fees, utilities and property taxes was $9,400,

:shock:

Did I read that wrong?
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
It was probably true in 2004 Jay, but I think it might fall a bit short in 2006.

We've only lived in our cuurent house about two years but the real estate agents are telling us that the place would sell for a hundred and twenty thou more than we paid for it. It's all a game really, because any place we would buy would have gone up buy a similar amount.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
In 2004, the average cost for rent or mortgage payments, condo fees, utilities and property taxes was $9,400, about 15 per cent of the average household budget. People in Toronto and Vancouver spent the most on rent while Quebecers spent the least.

Gross debt servicing is generally maximum 32% (mortgage/uts/tax etc) and qualified using two people so 15% each would be reasonable. However it's a funny way to look at the average. The average total family income is closer to reality (is reality). No way on earth the average single guy/girl would rent/buy at 15%.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
It was probably true in 2004 Jay, but I think it might fall a bit short in 2006.

I've owned this house for 4 years and my situation hasn't changed.....if anyone is getting away with paying $9400.00 for mortgage, taxes and utilities, count yourselves lucky. You can add on top of that another 10K for my bill.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
When we bought our first house, I had just finished university and we even borrowed the down payment. At that time, the banks were allowing twenty five percent of total gross income for mortgage, tax etc. It was heavy, but inflation would be your friend and in a few years, salaries went up but your mortgage didn't..
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
And that is true....my father-in-law bought his house for 35K, 35 years ago and it would sell for about 320K today.

I was just a little shocked by the numbers I suppose.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
The really "good" old days were when you could get a twenty five year mortgage at 5 % and the bank had to stick with it for twenty five years. One thing people looked for was a house with an existing, low interest mortgage that they could take over.

We haven't had a mortgage in about twelve years and I don't miss it.
 

temperance

Electoral Member
Sep 27, 2006
622
16
18
That deoes not make sense ,,even rent gear to income ratios are 30 % and mortgage is 32-36 % of income ,where did the figure come from ,

Renters in Ottawa pay average 750.00 one bedroom ,no frills

so average people make 135,000

12 x 750= 9000.00
Did I calculate right if 15 % was the income ratio ?????
B.S
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
That deoes not make sense ,,even rent gear to income ratios are 30 % and mortgage is 32-36 % of income ,where did the figure come from ,

Renters in Ottawa pay average 750.00 one bedroom ,no frills

so average people make 135,000

12 x 750= 9000.00
Did I calculate right if 15 % was the income ratio ?????
B.S

In a backwards way they are showing that the average couple pays $1500. It's rare for a single to be the sole income producer for a rental or buying unit.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48

I learned a lesson eleven years ago about what it is to be a Canadian. That lesson came in the form of a ruptured blood vessel in my brain. Paralyzed partially blind and unable to work, I was being advised by hospital staff to apply for Ontario Disability Support Program benefits immediately.

That lesson came way too late.

I’ve learned that those folk still capable of earning a living loathe and detest those of us confined to wheelchairs and left unable to earn our own keep. Ontarians happily greeted the government of Mike Harris who implemented policies to make damn sure that disabled people would be kept ever mindful of their second-class citizenship. For over ten years the people of Ontario have been either completely un-interested or believe that disabled people…since after all they’re non-contributors in the income tax area of Canadian commerce/government deserve to live dependent on food banks well below the poverty line (LICO’s).

58.9% of my ODSP benefit goes to the landlord and utility companies. I have no cable TV (hardly a necessity certainly) I have a dial-up connection to the Internet…and as someone here at Canadian Content intimated a little while ago…the fact that I spend $15.00 a month on my Internet service that “obviously” I was doing just fine and have no reason to complain. An insightful jab regarding “bandwidth” as this clod put it…..

But I digress….

Canadians tell themselves “I’m a humanitarian who believes that helping the Tsunami victims, the earthquake victims, the homeless in other nations and many other folk around the world is the right thing to do…”

The historical record says it all. If you’re not a Canadian and you’ve experienced a tragic event…then by golly Canadians will dole out the money….

If however you’re a Canadian who’s suffered a disabling condition or disease then….screw you…. you welfare bum!!!

And this is the essence of what it is to be a Canadian. Squawk run around in circles with your arms flapping and hold charity events when a family of Indonesians suffer but feel free to heap disdain and spit on every Canadian who’s been stupid enough to be victimized by a disease or injury. Canadians don’t want to believe they’re greedy and unsympathetic to tragedies that befall our distant neighbors, but who really gives a damn about someone in Canada who experiences a quality of life reduced to that of the disaster victim from a foreign nation?

“Indians”…hell we’ve been handing them money and giving them houses and schools for decades and all they do is Oka, Caledonia, Ipperwash….

“Welfare mooches”….they’re all just too damn lazy to get a job and when they get a few dollars ahead they spend it on booze or drugs….

“Homeless”….Everyone knows that homeless people are mentally deranged and incapable of responsible self-maintenance….these people live the way they do because they want to….

This thread just kills me.

What I didn’t learn is that Canadians will admire you for skimming from the tax coffers and will be happy to continue to pay hefty pensions to people who’ve lied and stolen from them but hey…we draw the line at lazy no-account disabled people….

What I didn’t learn is that throughout my working life I should have been charging far more than I did for everything I did….. I shouldn’t have cared about my friends my neighbours my community….I should have preyed on them to be a solid Canadian….

I should have made sure that I invested in commercial enterprises that reaped huge rewards at the expense of foreign men women and children in third world nations…..

I should have kept the donations and charity contributions I made for nearly fifty years to “worthy-causes” because in the final analysis my fellow countrymen regard me as a burden and a leech on their pay-cheques…

I’ve written I can’t really tell you how many letters to MPs, business leaders, everyone and anyone who could make a difference….

More often than not, I get no response of any kind.

Some responses I do get from government are lists of legislation and rules regarding how it’s perfectly OK for the disabled in Canada to live second-class lives and how my situation and the situation of thousands of other disabled Canadians reflects the desires of Canadians in general to make sure their taxes are protected from us scheming and blatantly dishonest cripples and handi-caps, aboriginal people and the sick and injured. Would I join an Islamic terrorist group, and FLQ terrorist cell, or some other group in Canada that would work to tear down the system?

In a heartbeat.





 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
I learned a lesson eleven years ago about what it is to be a Canadian. That lesson came in the form of a ruptured blood vessel in my brain. Paralyzed partially blind and unable to work, I was being advised by hospital staff to apply for Ontario Disability Support Program benefits immediately.

That lesson came way too late.

I’ve learned that those folk still capable of earning a living loathe and detest those of us confined to wheelchairs and left unable to earn our own keep. Ontarians happily greeted the government of Mike Harris who implemented policies to make damn sure that disabled people would be kept ever mindful of their second-class citizenship. For over ten years the people of Ontario have been either completely un-interested or believe that disabled people…since after all they’re non-contributors in the income tax area of Canadian commerce/government deserve to live dependent on food banks well below the poverty line (LICO’s).

58.9% of my ODSP benefit goes to the landlord and utility companies. I have no cable TV (hardly a necessity certainly) I have a dial-up connection to the Internet…and as someone here at Canadian Content intimated a little while ago…the fact that I spend $15.00 a month on my Internet service that “obviously” I was doing just fine and have no reason to complain. An insightful jab regarding “bandwidth” as this clod put it…..

But I digress….

Canadians tell themselves “I’m a humanitarian who believes that helping the Tsunami victims, the earthquake victims, the homeless in other nations and many other folk around the world is the right thing to do…”

The historical record says it all. If you’re not a Canadian and you’ve experienced a tragic event…then by golly Canadians will dole out the money….

If however you’re a Canadian who’s suffered a disabling condition or disease then….screw you…. you welfare bum!!!

And this is the essence of what it is to be a Canadian. Squawk run around in circles with your arms flapping and hold charity events when a family of Indonesians suffer but feel free to heap disdain and spit on every Canadian who’s been stupid enough to be victimized by a disease or injury. Canadians don’t want to believe they’re greedy and unsympathetic to tragedies that befall our distant neighbors, but who really gives a damn about someone in Canada who experiences a quality of life reduced to that of the disaster victim from a foreign nation?

“Indians”…hell we’ve been handing them money and giving them houses and schools for decades and all they do is Oka, Caledonia, Ipperwash….

“Welfare mooches”….they’re all just too damn lazy to get a job and when they get a few dollars ahead they spend it on booze or drugs….

“Homeless”….Everyone knows that homeless people are mentally deranged and incapable of responsible self-maintenance….these people live the way they do because they want to….

This thread just kills me.

What I didn’t learn is that Canadians will admire you for skimming from the tax coffers and will be happy to continue to pay hefty pensions to people who’ve lied and stolen from them but hey…we draw the line at lazy no-account disabled people….

What I didn’t learn is that throughout my working life I should have been charging far more than I did for everything I did….. I shouldn’t have cared about my friends my neighbours my community….I should have preyed on them to be a solid Canadian….

I should have made sure that I invested in commercial enterprises that reaped huge rewards at the expense of foreign men women and children in third world nations…..

I should have kept the donations and charity contributions I made for nearly fifty years to “worthy-causes” because in the final analysis my fellow countrymen regard me as a burden and a leech on their pay-cheques…

I’ve written I can’t really tell you how many letters to MPs, business leaders, everyone and anyone who could make a difference….

More often than not, I get no response of any kind.

Some responses I do get from government are lists of legislation and rules regarding how it’s perfectly OK for the disabled in Canada to live second-class lives and how my situation and the situation of thousands of other disabled Canadians reflects the desires of Canadians in general to make sure their taxes are protected from us scheming and blatantly dishonest cripples and handi-caps, aboriginal people and the sick and injured. Would I join an Islamic terrorist group, and FLQ terrorist cell, or some other group in Canada that would work to tear down the system?

In a heartbeat.


Mike, I can certainly understand why you might be bitter about the many inequities facing the disabled. The system is most definitely unfair for those who's ability to work and support themselves has been taken through no fault of their own. I wish I could change the system in the next minute, but I can't. I think, on another thread, you mentioned your children, and this implies a family. Do you get much help from your family? I don't begrudge you any help you can find fron the government at any level.


 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
Thanks Juan

Don't get me wrong here I'm not fishing for sympathy, Just trying to establish that maybe sometimes when people contribute to discussion forums they really do know a little about what they're talking about and how other people might feel.

My kids are grown married and gone....and doing well enough I suppose...

Thanks
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
I’ve learned that those folk still capable of earning a living loathe and detest those of us confined to wheelchairs and left unable to earn our own keep.


I'm having a hard time understanding where you got this idea from out of the few posts in this thread or what in this thread bothers you so much.

I don't feel that way, but I do think the civil service in Ontario is taking the tax payer for a ride...money that could be better spent on situations as you have described.

I think a lot of people in Ontario feel that way, hence Mike Harris and his fight with the Teachers unions (as an example).
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,643
128
63
Larnaka
I'm still trying to figure out where this 9.5K $ figure came from. Somebody in Barrie probably couldn't even live in the slums for that. Maybe they're including the (assumingly) low rents in the NWT? :p
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
And who won that fight Jay?

I suppose it depends on how you look at it, but I say the Liberals won it and their not giving up any of the money they are taking from the system.

Apparently paying high school teachers 85K a year (top salary) and having the provincial government guarantee their pension is all about the "kids".
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
I'm still trying to figure out where this 9.5K $ figure came from. Somebody in Barrie probably couldn't even live in the slums for that. Maybe they're including the (assumingly) low rents in the NWT? :p

I think what they're saying is that is the average contribution per person, however it takes more than one to buy/rent. It's not indicative of the actual cost per unit, only per person within a unit.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
How you’re prepared to let the vulnerable among you live.

Jay

I don’t know how computer ‘savvy” you may be but maybe you’ve heard of “interrupt requests”, an event that interrupts what it is that the CPU and various subsystems are “doing” to have a task executed. Think of it this way if it helps…

You’re watching a TV program and the phone rings….

If you decide to answer the phone, this event has “interrupted” your program watching.

When I participate in online forums, sometimes I run across a conversation in progress that piques my interest….

If I have some sense of the psychological or philosophical or metaphysical dynamic involved and/or exhibited in this observed dialogue I sometimes interject an opinion that is admittedly sometimes less directed at the topical content than it is in response to some dynamic perceived as taking place in through and during this segment of dialogue.

A dialogue that concerns/involves the perceptions and situations of the average Canadian with respect to how much of their income is gobbled-up by the expense of living indoors frequently skips over the relatively small number of Canadians who find themselves in very serious situations with respect to being able to maintain that luxury.

A lot of poor folk don’t have computers or access to the Internet. A great many poor folk have neither the time or energy to devote to something other than finding something to eat or a place to sleep. It makes this lesser number of Canadians easier to ignore and allows them to retain their invisibility.

Pan handlers can be ignored or depending on the neighbourhood…call the police and they’ll drive them off to the edge of town where maybe they’ll freeze to death….SOP in some western Canadian enclaves.

It’s a matter of perspective Jay.
 

snowles

Electoral Member
May 21, 2006
324
16
18
Atikokan, Ontario
That deoes not make sense ,,even rent gear to income ratios are 30 % and mortgage is 32-36 % of income ,where did the figure come from ,

Renters in Ottawa pay average 750.00 one bedroom ,no frills

so average people make 135,000

12 x 750= 9000.00
Did I calculate right if 15 % was the income ratio ?????
B.S

That's exactly right. I lived in Ottawa in two separate apartments with my wife; both were one bedroom, one living room, half-kitchen (if that) and a small bathroom, and cost between $750-$770 a month (about $9000-$9270 annually). If I wanted to park my car outside, it would have cost us an extra $50 a month. Bus passes cost $65 each per month. Considering it was small, in a somewhat sketchy area (the South Keys area on Downpatrick Rd.) and we had to pay for cable, internet, phone service and everything else, it was a pretty expensive venture to be an off-campus student (and strangely, it was cheap compared to living on campus). It was the cheapest apartment in that area for that price range; considering how little students have we were just scraping by; I knew of other students in that building that had 4 people in the same size room just to make ends meet.