For non soldier types

[Jersay]

So for the non-soldiers on this forum I was just posing about this question.

Now it is easy to say go to war or not to go to war and all this stuff but I want to pose the question, if you were in a soldier's shoes. Would you be able to kill another human being.

Because I can shoot at the range, and at the satrange, and I am a marksman I hit it dead on, but when I get the image in my head that I am shooting another human being who might have a family with small children who will never see their parent again is hard to visualize and I don't think that is realized by people who ask soldiers to protect them and ask them at times to kill another human being.

And if you were put into a soldiers shoes, would you be able to possibly shoot a civilian accidently as you are engaged with enemy combatants. Maybe a child possible that might look like one of your loved ones.

Would you be able to do it??

 

[Jersay]

Anyone

 

[BitWhys]

If I could its certainly not something I'd put on my calling card.

 

[Outta here]

nope. I don't think I could - but in saying that, I acknowledge that I think I'd turn into a beast straight outta hell if someone was threatening or hurting my kids. But I would never intentionally put myself in the position of having to make that choice.

 

[Jersay]

But this is in a battlefield. So I guess that would be a no.

 

[jimmoyer]

Jersay, I'm sure you know that for your own safety
you do not hesitate to kill any potential for danger
to you.

You certainly will know the rules of engagement
and you will do what you need to do to
protect yourself and those of your unit.

You won't have much time to debate it, and you
certainly know it will do no service to your brothers'
in the unit.

You'll do no one any good debating it. In fact
to hesitate or debate it does not honor the safety
of your group.

The question is bad for us here. We have no training.

Were we to have such training as you've had, our
answers would change.

And for those who have made the decision to be
in the military are to be considered
no better nor worse than we civilians
who make decisions in our own lives.

 

[Jersay]

It's hard though Jim having the image that a person I might kill will also have a family.

However, I am gettig better at it, and if bullets were flying at me adreniline will kick in so I would fire back.

However, the point I am trying to make is you are still killing a human being, and for most soldiers, its hard to kill a human being. And services are not equiped to deal with soldiers who might have ill effects to killing someone. I know it causes some to get depressed and kill themselves. And civies don't appreciate that I think to the fullest, because soldiers have emotions as well. They are not killing bots.

 

[jimmoyer]

Jersay, of course you will remember your training,
and so you must owe it to yourself to protect yourself
without hesitation.

Don't make me worry about you.

I understand your points, but don't you lose.

You will bear the pain of being a human being, and
no matter what you do, you'll not escape the moral
dilemna of avoiding regrets, hard decisions.

If a car is travelling hard fast at you at a checkpoint,
you might wonder why they have no concept of
danger and why they would be risking their lives
charging at you, but you won't have time to size up
the idiocy of the moment.

You ever wonder why a person would be so foolish
as to taunt a scared soldier ? And then maybe by
luck live to later whine about what you did to them ?

You certainly have not gone up to kick a bigger guy
in the shins and expect no reaction ?

There's no common sense out there.

I will not go out of my way to piss off a policeman.
If I did and he reacted badly to me, do I have the
right to whine about it? Well, maybe that policeman
should have followed a code of behavior no matter
what I said or did to him. But what kind of fool would
I be? And would it show I had a mature sense of
survival ?

That's what YOU should have.

A mature sense of survival.

 

[Nuggler]

Jersay:
I hope you listen to Jim. He's bang on the money.

Your training should tell you to identify the threat and to immediately react. If not the "threat" will react and you will be no more. Just like that. It won't be his family grieving. Philosophy doesn't enter into the equation on a battlefield.

Most soldiers go into battle wondering if they "could". They find out quickly they can. If you really feel you couldn't, find a way to get out.

Just my .02.

Ugg.

 

[BitWhys]

...And civies don't appreciate that I think to the fullest, because soldiers have emotions as well. They are not killing bots.

I think you might be underestimating more civilians than you realize with that statement.

 

[Colpy]

Yes, I could.

I wouldn't like to, but I do carry arms to defend myself, and I teach others to use arms to defend themselves, and I have thought about it.

I shot my first deer on my 20th birthday............and I was a tough guy, with kiddie-type Walter Mitty fantasies......but I remember thinking at the time......the violent end of that deer impressed upon me that I NEVER wanted to shoot a man.

Yet I still like to hunt.

And I read an article years ago about combat, which mentioned how much better ex-hunters do in the field.....the conclusion was they were used to shooting for blood.

 

[Jersay]

Jersay:
I hope you listen to Jim. He's bang on the money.

Your training should tell you to identify the threat and to immediately react. If not the "threat" will react and you will be no more. Just like that. It won't be his family grieving. Philosophy doesn't enter into the equation on a battlefield.

Most soldiers go into battle wondering if they "could". They find out quickly they can. If you really feel you couldn't, find a way to get out.

Just my .02.

Ugg.

I talked to one of my Sgt about this and he said, just forget about that image you get in your mind. He is trying to kill you or your buddies, and you kill him before he kills you. Then when you are back at base, reflecton it then in whichever way you feel is most effective to you.

So I think I can do that.

 

[Jersay]

Re: RE: For non soldier types

Jersay, of course you will remember your training,
and so you must owe it to yourself to protect yourself
without hesitation.

Don't make me worry about you.

I understand your points, but don't you lose.

You will bear the pain of being a human being, and
no matter what you do, you'll not escape the moral
dilemna of avoiding regrets, hard decisions.

If a car is travelling hard fast at you at a checkpoint,
you might wonder why they have no concept of
danger and why they would be risking their lives
charging at you, but you won't have time to size up
the idiocy of the moment.

You ever wonder why a person would be so foolish
as to taunt a scared soldier ? And then maybe by
luck live to later whine about what you did to them ?

You certainly have not gone up to kick a bigger guy
in the shins and expect no reaction ?

There's no common sense out there.

I will not go out of my way to piss off a policeman.
If I did and he reacted badly to me, do I have the
right to whine about it? Well, maybe that policeman
should have followed a code of behavior no matter
what I said or did to him. But what kind of fool would
I be? And would it show I had a mature sense of
survival ?

That's what YOU should have.

A mature sense of survival.

Thanks that makes me feel better.

 

[thecdn]

As a former 'soldier type' of course this is something I've thought about. But no one can really know how they will react in that kind of situation.

I believe I would be able to kill 'the enemy' on the battlefield because of the him or me (or my buddies) aspect of it.

But even the loudest, most aggressive peacetime soldier might balk at doing the deed in combat. And the quietest, meekest guy might be a one man wrecking crew.

As to inflicting injury on innocent civilians, shit happens in a battle situation. Would anyone want to do it? I certainly hope not. But if you let fear of making a mistake paralyze you, then you've lost already and might just as well sit in your hole and wait for the enemy to come to you.

If you make mistakes learn from them and don't repeat them. And you can ponder all the philosophy you want before the action. But you can't do that when you're in the fight. Just do what you think is best and hope for good results.

 

[Jersay]

Thanks thecdn.

 

[Jersay]

Thanks everyone for your comments, especially Jim.

 

[jimmoyer]

Thanks Jersay.

Sincerely.

You hit a chord with me.

Get more of the old soul inside you.

It's way too wrong to have those around you witness any moral dilemna raging war inside you. It's worrisome.

Be strong and hold your head up.

This crap here is childish kindergarten stuff.

I think most here on this forum wish you quite well
and appreciate your sincerety, if I could be so bold
as to speak for all of us.

Your loyalty should be to those around you, to those
closest to you, not to anyone else. Think of them
first before anything else. You owe it to them and
yourself to do only that.

Anyway, I can't help it. Gotta stop.

You know this anyway.

 

[Riyko]

To be honest, No I couldn't kill someone unless they really made me mad or we're someone I hated.

 

[Jersay]

Re: RE: For non soldier types

Thanks Jersay.

Sincerely.

You hit a chord with me.

Get more of the old soul inside you.

It's way too wrong to have those around you witness any moral dilemna raging war inside you. It's worrisome.

Be strong and hold your head up.

This crap here is childish kindergarten stuff.

I think most here on this forum wish you quite well
and appreciate your sincerety, if I could be so bold
as to speak for all of us.

Your loyalty should be to those around you, to those
closest to you, not to anyone else. Think of them
first before anything else. You owe it to them and
yourself to do only that.

Anyway, I can't help it. Gotta stop.

You know this anyway.

Thanks Jim for your comments. That is a perfect way to boil it down.