This is the Greatest Threat to Western Capitalist Democracy.


Sublime
#1
Wealthy Poeple that don't spend there money, they just keep on shoving it in there bank.

Anyone wanna debate?
 
annabattler
#2
How much can they spend? It's not like they'll go to the local 7/11 and buy up lots of snack foods?
I suppose they could,like Bill Gates,use large chunks to support international charities.Some donate big bucks to their favourite cultural institutions.
These folk didn't get rich by spending their money...they got rich by investing their money.
I DON"T get rich by buying lottery tickets...but the purchasing of them allows me to dream of being rich,lol.
 
Sublime
#3
I didn't say Rich, I said Wealthy.

Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Derek Jeter, Bruce Willis ....they are rich.

The guy who signs there paychecks...he's wealhy.

Wealthy people need to spend more money, has no one noticed the parallels of new entrepeneurs who make it into the comfort zone of wealthy and stop spending and just saved it, what are they saving it for, how many millions must one man need?

If they don't spend it, our western way of life is doomed.
 
Kreskin
#4
Wealthy people don't usually sit on cash. Some have very little of it. Most wealthy people have the majority of their net worth in real estate and business assets. Most wealthy have little to no registered market investments. They make money by refinancing real estate to buy more.
 
Sublime
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin

Wealthy people don't usually sit on cash. Some have very little of it. Most wealthy people have the majority of their net worth in real estate and business assets. Most wealthy have little to no registered market investments. They make money by refinancing real estate to buy more.

So what your saying is ..wealthy people only help wealthy people to become more wealthy?
 
Kreskin
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by Sublime

Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin

Wealthy people don't usually sit on cash. Some have very little of it. Most wealthy people have the majority of their net worth in real estate and business assets. Most wealthy have little to no registered market investments. They make money by refinancing real estate to buy more.

So what your saying is ..wealthy people only help wealthy people to become more wealthy?

I'm saying if the can access 500k in real estate equity they will borrow it as a down payment on the next borrowed investment. They are good for the economy. The wealthy aren't the ones doing the physical construction work. I'm saying they know how to leverage wealth to create more wealth, which is good for the economy.
 
Sublime
#7
Good for the economy, bad for the middle class and poor which make up about 99% of the population.

Profit over people?
 
Kreskin
#8
Sitting on cash is completely useless to someone with wealth. Cash makes nothing.

The last time I looked the middle class and poor benefitted from a good economy. Employment comes from a good economy.
 
Sublime
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by Kreskin

Sitting on cash is completely useless to someone with wealth. Cash makes nothing.

The last time I looked the middle class and poor benefitted from a good economy. Employment comes from a good economy.

Agreed sitting on cash is useless to everyone!

Create what kind of employment?
Tim Hortons, Mc Donalds.

Why don't wealthy employers give raises to there employee's, that would help even more, because they'l go out and buy more products which in turn will work it's way through the system and create more demand for the products that that the employee's manufacture or the services that wealthy employers provide.

Question Clearified: Why don't Wealthy Employers give more raises.
 
Kreskin
#10
These people invest a ton of their own money, money they could've sat on and did nothing with, to employ people and try to make a profit. I personally know a Tim Horton's owner than can barely pay the bills, yet his employees treat him as if he's a government social services program. Last I checked he wasn't Santa Claus.
 
Sublime
#11
shoot....work.....order from Pizza Nova i'l be knockin on yer door, we'l continue it then..
 
darkbeaver
#12
Healthy economys do not require healthy workers nor does that wealth trickle down through the other classes, the concentration of wealth at the top very much harms the society it occurs in. The creation of one-hundred new billionaires is good for no one but those one-hundred.
 
Kreskin
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Healthy economys do not require healthy workers nor does that wealth trickle down through the other classes, the concentration of wealth at the top very much harms the society it occurs in. The creation of one-hundred new billionaires is good for no one but those one-hundred.

Really. I know people who contracted to build Bill Gates house and it was the best home construction business they ever did. I'll bet the guys who built his boats, homes, cars, commercial buildings, work at Miscrosoft are all glad he became a billionaire, or they might be standing in soup lines complaining about the wealthy.
 
Alberta'sfinest
#14
I find it funny how people spout propaganda created by the wealthy elite. The trickle down effect is a complete lie. The wealthy elite don't save their money at all, my parents don't even save their money and were upper middle class. What they do is invest their money. The problem is that there is only so many industries to invest in. Usually there investments are really buying smaller companies. If people don't sell the business, the wealthy person starts their own, undermines the competition with deep pockets until the competition goes bankrupt. Once they are bankrupt, the wealthy guys new business jacks up the prices higher than the competitions and makes a killing on his new investment. Then they use their assets to acquire more businesses and the cycle continues. The best way to make money, even with little education, is to run a small business. Since these corporate giants owned by wealthy share holders are buying these up, and replacing these business owners with managers who make only a fraction of the pay compared to the profits, there is less money to be spent. That whole "it's good for the economy" line is total bull. The majority gets less money, while the wealthy get richer. And of course they use their money to sway governments to right legislation to reduce their taxes almost completely, making us little guys who now make less money pick up the tab. The small donations they contribute to charities are a drop in the bucket compared to what they take from society.

If you don't believe me that this is how it is, go to a small town with a wal-mart. The places look like ghost towns, most of the small companies are gone, and the only jobs left are at wal-mart. Usually these towns have more rampent drug problems too. A wal-mart propably makes around 10 million a year and employs 50 people. The employees will make about 20,000 a year at a cost of 1 million dollars. The other 9 million is extracted from the community and becomes money to build another wal-mart, or line investors pockets. Without that wal-mart, the area could have had 50 self-employed people making a 100,000 a year, with the same or comparable prices. It's not 200,000 a year because small businesses don't get the same supply price as larger companies, so they make less on the mark-up. As a bonus, those small businesses would also have 3-4 employees creating 200 extra jobs.

To sum it up. One wal-mart has 50 employees, and leaves 1 million dollars worth of profit in the town to be redistributed to the community. Unless travellers add 9 million dollars to the community by spending there, this is a net loss of a little under 9 million to the community.
50 small businesses would have 10 million dollars worth of profit to be redistributed to the community, and the money circulation would be greater, making the community richer. These businesses would also require 150-200 extra workers, and support secondary services like accountants and maintenance companies etc.
Which do you think is better for your community?

The wealthy elite could be taxed 50% of their profits to be put into the tax system, and they'd still be super wealthy, and the rest of us wouldn't even have to pay taxes. Instead, we make crap, and we pay through the nose so a few people can live the high life.

What they're doing is called exploitation. Corporations have created a new system of modern day slavery to benefit a few, and we let them. If you don't think this isn't the case, do some research on average incomes in correlation to small business numbers and their reduction as corporations expand. You'll find that as small businesses are reduced, so are higher paying jobs and average salaries. Corporations spend a lot of money trying to create this "we aren't bad" white-wash lie. The funny part is that we aren't even the ones getting the worst of it. The people in second world countries are the ones really getting screwed. They make peanuts for working harder than we do, and even more money is funneled out of their communities than ours. Free trade just allows for exploitation. governments sign it because they get kickbacks to do so. What we need is Fair trade.
 
Toro
#15
What the heck are you guys talking about?
 
Kreskin
#16
AF,

The corporate oil industry in Alberta isn't paying enough? What is Suncor paying these days for janitor, 60k?
 
Said1
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Sublime

Wealthy Poeple that don't spend there money, they just keep on shoving it in there bank.

Anyone wanna debate?

This is the threat?

I'd argue that governments are the biggest threats to any sort of democracy, but I'm wacky that way.
 
I think not
#18
The greatest threat to western democracy is darkbeaver and his ilk.
 
Alberta'sfinest
#19
Actually the corporate oil industry isn't paying enough and they damage the environment in almost every way possible. They also pay the lowest royalty fees in the world and hardly pay a cent for the infrastucture that needs to be implimented to support their industry. How much do those corporations make, and how much are they taking out of the Alberta economy and depositing in rich American share holders accounts. Are wealth is being extracted to allow foreigners to live high on the hog, while I work 56 hours a weak and make 40,000 a year. Housing is getting so expensive now that banks won't even give me enough to buy a house, so are wages are relative to our cost of living. It costs $300,000 to get a 1500 sq.ft. house built in a descent area here in edmonton, and that's if you can find a builder to build the damn thing. Waiting periods for homes are almost a full year now. The only janitors that make 60 grand a year work in camps in the middle of nowhere, away from their families. The only reason we even make the money we do is because there is an extreme manpower shortage that is driving up labour costs. I assure you that oil companies would pay us as little as necessary if there was no shortage, and maximize their profits for their wealthy investors. We are getting screwed big time, and being handed scraps.
I don't get why everyone else in Canada thinks that everyone in alberta is some rich tycoon. If the oil industry was completely canadian owned like it should be, this would be true, we wouldn't even have to pay taxes if we publicly owned the industry. You have no idea how much this misconception pisses me off. Meanwhile, 1 in 4 kids in my area has ahsma, and cancer and MS rates are sky rocketing from flaring off natural gas for soo many years. We're paying with our environmnet, our wallets, and our lives. Nothing is coming easy or cheap for the average Albertan. We've been sold out by the Klein government. Take your vacation here and see for yourself. Did I mention that pretty much everything is privatized too. my car insurance is 5 times as much as in BC or Saskatchewan.
 
Kreskin
#20
It's all supply and demand.

Look on the bright side. You're living in the good old days.
 
Jay
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

The greatest threat to western democracy is darkbeaver and his ilk.


That's right!
 
Sublime
#22
Wealthy

Rich
Upper Middle Class
Middle Class
Lower Middle Class
Poor

I'm talking about the Wealthy.
 
Sassylassie
#23
I'm upper middle class how am I a threat? I work hard, pay 53% income tax, work my **** off, haven't been able to find a Doctor in five years ego denied medical access, I have no kids but I have to pay School Tax, I live in a town but I have to pay Federal Road taxes. Please enlighten me how do I threaten society.
 
Finder
#24
The class structure leaks into itself these days. you can't use the terms in Western culture which Marx once used as the working class truly is the new middle class in most reguards. The lower classes are those in the service indestry these days, but even so this isn't always true.

The Globalization of the worlds markets have moved the true under classes to plasses like China, Africa and South East Asia were workers are paid next to nothing, a few cents on a product which sells for 20-200 dollars in north america. The profiteering in globalization today is the cause for the extreme wealth of the west and the extreme poor of the south east. It sickens me to see these workers work 9-16 hour days for Nike or a supplier for wal-mart and be paid a few dollars while there actual work had produced hundreds in profits.

So yeah being poor in Canada or the USA may suck but it isn't half as bad as the vast magority of the working class which is sweeting and dieing to make us cheap things so we can buy our crap at wal-mart for insanely cheap prices.

I guess all we have learned in the west is.... Out of sight out of mind! If we arn't the one's being exploted it is ok not to care as long as we have our house, our SUV's and our 42k's!!!

grrrrrrrrr

I'm not a Left wing extremist, and I believe in free trade, but faire trade were workers get at least a fare share of the profits!!! Not pennies!!! Not at a leave where they never see there loved ones, they don't get to see there kids grow they don't get health care or anything else!!! This sickens me so much.
 
Sassylassie
#25
I don't shop at Walmart! I buy at locally owned stores. I walk and rarely drive to protect the environment. I compost, recycle, shop at second hand stores. Stop blaming the middle class for the worlds ilks. It's not a valid argument, start complaining about the Oil Industry that care about no one-nothing except the almighty dollar.
 
Toro
#26
Thank God for globalization.

Its the best thing for lifting people out of poverty!
 
Sassylassie
#27
Yes, I agree with what Toro wrote.
 
Toro
#28
Gosh, Sassylassie is a bright woman!
 
Sassylassie
#29
Thank you Toro, Brilliant is what I am use to being called.
 
Said1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Finder


The Globalization of the worlds markets have moved the true under classes to plasses like China, Africa and South East Asia were workers are paid next to nothing, a few cents on a product which sells for 20-200 dollars in north america. The profiteering in globalization today is the cause for the extreme wealth of the west and the extreme poor of the south east. It sickens me to see these workers work 9-16 hour days for Nike or a supplier for wal-mart and be paid a few dollars while there actual work had produced hundreds in profits.

China is an interesting study since it has a growing middle class, which could cause serious problems in China. Some feel China is doomed given that some of the key components within successful democracies are a large middle class that is fairly educated and free(er) markets. This could mean possible reformation or stricter government domination.

The other nations you mentioned aren't so lucky economically and their literacy rates run as low as 40% in some cases. A poor, barely educated populace will always equate exploitation of the worst kind, by both their own leaders and multinationals. Education is key.
 

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