Feds: 1.5 Million Babies Born to Unwed Moms in '04


Nascar_James
#1
Troubling Numbers ...

USA Today - Unwed Families (external - login to view)

Quote:

USA Today:

Posted 10/31/2005 7:57 PM Updated 10/31/2005 8:34 PM

Feds: 1.5 million babies born to unwed moms in '04
By Sharon Jayson, USA TODAY

The old rhyme about love and marriage leading to the baby carriage isn't so true anymore. Now, the baby often precedes the marriage, the marriage might not happen, or it may be a short-lived union — all of which spells trouble for children, experts say.
New federal data showing a record high number of babies — 1.5 million — born last year to unwed mothers, with more of them in their 20s, has sparked concern about what the trend means for child well-being.

"It's really unfair to children," says David Popenoe, sociologist and co-director of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University. "It means more children are going to grow up without mothers and fathers."

Data from the National Center for Health Statistics found the unwed moms were more likely to be twentysomethings than teenagers: 55% of births for those ages 20-24 were to unwed mothers; almost 28% for ages 25-29. In just two years — 2002 to 2004 — births to unwed mothers ages 25-29 jumped more than 14%, and 7% over the same period for the younger twentysomething mothers. Teens accounted for 50% of unwed births in 1970 but only 24% in 2004.

An extensive review of marriage research released in September by the Brookings Institution and Princeton found that children fare best when raised by their married, biological parents. Still, more couples are cohabiting, which tends to be less stable for children. And for those who tie the knot, a new book about long-lasting effects of divorce written by a child of divorce suggests that an unhappy marriage without a lot of fighting is better than divorce, at least for the kids.

"Any kind of divorce sows lasting inner conflict in children's lives," says Elizabeth Marquardt, the Chicago-based author of Between Two Worlds, a book based on a nationally representative sample of 1,500 adults, half of whom had divorced parents.

Unwed celebrities may have popularized the single-mom baby boom, but experts say unwed mothers are more likely to be economically disadvantaged.

Young adults having children without being married isn't surprising to Sarah Brown, director of the National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy, who says federal data found that almost two-thirds of girls ages 15-19 agree it's OK for an unwed woman to have a child.

"Young adults are acting on their attitudes," she says. "They are doing what they think is OK."

It's a bad signal for children, says Kristin Moore, a senior scholar at Child Trends, a Washington, D.C.-based non-partisan research group.

"For children born into these relationships, the couple seems to have a positive relationship and a desire to marry, but as they are followed over time, not too many of these marriages happen," she says.

 
Reverend Blair
#2
So?
 
Nascar_James
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

So?

So don't you think something is wrong with this picture Rev? About 1.5 million babies were born in 2004 in the US that will grow up with no father figure.
 
no1important
#4
Teen Pregnancy Rate Said Down in Oklahoma (external - login to view)

Still 8th highest in USA.

Teen pregnancey and babies born to unwed mothers will not go away, that is a fact. I think birth control to whoever needs, reguardless of age it should be availble free of charge to anyone. Putting free condom machines in high school bathrooms and bars would be a start. People are going to have sex so you may as well make sure they are safe and have mechanisms to prevent unwanted pregnancy's.

Education is another factor. So many people are uneducated about sex and the consequences. Education should start in the 7th or 8th grade. Do they have sex ed in America or does, I hate to use this word but "religion" and "religious beliefs" prevent it?
 
Nascar_James
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

Teen Pregnancy Rate Said Down in Oklahoma (external - login to view)

Still 8th highest in USA.

Teen pregnancey and babies born to unwed mothers will not go away, that is a fact. I think birth control to whoever needs, reguardless of age it should be availble free of charge to anyone. Putting free condom machines in high school bathrooms and bars would be a start. People are going to have sex so you may as well make sure they are safe and have mechanisms to prevent unwanted pregnancy's.

Education is another factor. So many people are uneducated about sex and the consequences. Education should start in the 7th or 8th grade. Do they have sex ed in America or does, I hate to use this word but "religion" and "religious beliefs" prevent it?

Ahemmm ... well there is another solution. We could always turn back the clock 50 years.
 
no1important
#6
The thing is Nascar, what do you do? People go to bars or to parties get drunk and have sex. Education and birth control is just a part of it. Even though I am pro choice I would rather people have safe sex than abortionsa and thats why I feel in every country condoms, birth control pills, IUD's etc should be free, its not a solution but hopefully can reduce some unwanted pregnancies.

BUt the reality is the days of sending unwed mothers away to live with distant relatives or "aunts" is over.

What would you suggest to stop unwed mothers from having babies? Personally I do not think unwed mothers myself having babies is a big deal. Hell my sister had two, two of my brothers each had children born to unwed mothers, so what?

But I am interested in your thoughts on how to reduce this.
 
Reverend Blair
#7
Quote:

About 1.5 million babies were born in 2004 in the US that will grow up with no father figure.

What you mean is no immediate traditional father figure. There are grandfathers and uncles and friends and so on. Sometimes more than others, but you are getting hung up on what you consider to be the traditional family. Knowing people who live quite happily outside of that tradition, I think you are getting a little carried away.

Quote:

Ahemmm ... well there is another solution. We could always turn back the clock 50 years.

Yeah, because nobody got pregnant without getting married in 1955. Oh wait, they did. A lot. There were shotgun weddings, girls going to live with their aunts for the summer, illegal back-alley abortions...the whole bit.

Quote:

Teen pregnancey and babies born to unwed mothers will not go away, that is a fact. I think birth control to whoever needs, reguardless of age it should be availble free of charge to anyone. Putting free condom machines in high school bathrooms and bars would be a start. People are going to have sex so you may as well make sure they are safe and have mechanisms to prevent unwanted pregnancy's.

Education is another factor. So many people are uneducated about sex and the consequences. Education should start in the 7th or 8th grade. Do they have sex ed in America or does, I hate to use this word but "religion" and "religious beliefs" prevent it?

All very true, No 1. Education is the key. If you know how to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, then there is a far chance that you will prevent it. Religious interference has promoted a culture of ignorance.
 
unclepercy
#8
[quote="Reverend Blair"]
Quote:

About 1.5 million babies were born in 2004 in the US that will grow up with no father figure.

What you mean is no immediate traditional father figure. There are grandfathers and uncles and friends and so on. Sometimes more than others, but you are getting hung up on what you consider to be the traditional family. Knowing people who live quite happily outside of that tradition, I think you are getting a little carried away.
Quote:

Ahemmm ... well there is another solution. We could always turn back the clock 50 years.

Yeah, because nobody got pregnant without getting married in 1955. Oh wait, they did. A lot. There were shotgun weddings, girls going to live with their aunts for the summer, illegal back-alley abortions...the whole bit.

Quote:

Teen pregnancey and babies born to unwed mothers will not go away, that is a fact. I think birth control to whoever needs, reguardless of age it should be availble free of charge to anyone.

I am not going to say the traditional "I'm sorry, but...." All children deserve to have a father. Not a stand-in, part-time father. Adopted, OK. But absent - no. NO.

I will die never knowing who my father was. I cannot find out.
And although I had a wonderful father, my biological father never knew I existed. It does something to a person, Rev, to have your
father absent. Fathers set the standard in a family in a way that mothers just can't. Absolutely not - you are mistaken. Fathers are just as important as mothers, and their "being out of the picture"
does not promote perfectly happy offspring.

Ask a fatherless man if it matters. They may minimize it by saying their mother did a great job, but they get this look on their faces - and they look down at their feet, and you will hear in their voices that it does matter - very much.

Uncle
 
Ocean Breeze
#9
NJ.......don't know what the big deal is. Society has changed.. the family unit is no longer comprised of the traditional marriage, female. male and offspring. and in that order.

Single parents are single and parents by choice too. If marriage was such a great institution .......there would be no divorces. Many want children and yet no marriage. Some want a career and children.....no marriage. Some are still stuck in the traditional mode.......which is fine if that is their choice. But here again.....do not impose YOUR value system on anyone else.

one must adjust with societal changes , and the trends of a people. Staying in the 50's.....( not so innocent an era either) is just thwarting one's own personal progress.

Value systems change. as they should. Societies are dynamic and continue to evolve.

IF this number is meant to be UNWANTED pregnancies... ( a different situation ) then something is lacking in the education of both females and males.

Keep in mind : for every unwed mother , there is an unwed father.---who surprise, surprise is just as responsible...
 
Ocean Breeze
#10
Quote:

About 1.5 million babies were born in 2004 in the US that will grow up with no father figure.


who says???????? that is an assumption. Just because they are unwed..........does not imply that the parents aren't living together.


( might be an idea to think out of that narrow traditional mode......expand one's horizens..... and realize that the lifestyle choices have expanded a great deal in the past few yrs. Sadly it is religion and tradition that keeps many dumbed down.

who says one has to be married to have a family?? Procreation came long before "marriage" did........marriage being a man made institution.
 
Andygal
#11
I agree, lots of people live together without being married, what are the stats on babies born outside of *any* stable relationship? Hmmmm....
 
Nascar_James
#12
[quote="unclepercy"]
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Quote: About 1.5 million babies were born in 2004 in the US that will grow up with no father figure.What you mean is no immediate traditional father figure. There are grandfathers and uncles and friends and so on. Sometimes more than others, but you are getting hung up on what you consider to be the traditional family. Knowing people who live quite happily outside of that tradition, I think you are getting a little carried away.
Quote: Ahemmm ... well there is another solution. We could always turn back the clock 50 years.Yeah, because nobody got pregnant without getting married in 1955. Oh wait, they did. A lot. There were shotgun weddings, girls going to live with their aunts for the summer, illegal back-alley abortions...the whole bit.
Quote: Teen pregnancey and babies born to unwed mothers will not go away, that is a fact. I think birth control to whoever needs, reguardless of age it should be availble free of charge to anyone.I am not going to say the traditional "I'm sorry, but...." All children deserve to have a father. Not a stand-in, part-time father. Adopted,...

Quote has been trimmed
I sympathize with you Uncle. I could not imagine growing up without my real father, especially knowing that he was still around somewhere.

Many kids nowadays are in a far worse situation thou. Many will not only never know their real father but never even have an adopted father.
 
Reverend Blair
#13
Much of that is because of societal norms though, Uncle...all the other kids had fathers.

That is far less true today, especially in the context of what James means. I know mothers who had children out of wedlock, then went on to marry the father when the kids were older. I know lesbians that chose to have children. Since there was no SSM at the time, those kids were born out of wedlock. I know couples that have families but have never chosen to get married. Those kids were born to officially single mothers.

There is also far less stigma to not having a live-in father anymore. It is not unusual in this age of divorce etc.

I'm not saying that what you went through was easy or good. What I am saying is that James is trying to support his peculiar religious outlook by stating a statistic without taking any of the variables into account or addressing any of the other many issues that have an effect on that issue.

In the end, his misuse of that statistic is very likely to end up causing more children who never knew their fathers.
 
Ocean Breeze
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Andygal

I agree, lots of people live together without being married, what are the stats on babies born outside of *any* stable relationship? Hmmmm....

IF one did a survey in my neighborhood.......the ratio of unmarried partnerships to "married" ones is blatant. Seems that unwed (traditionally) are very committed to each other and their kids too. They don't need some paper to define things for them. No one thinks anything of this. They are a family unit as any other. Family units of single parents are accepted just fine too. It all depends on how the parent/parents handle the explanations with their kids.

sadly some who had a terrific long term relationship before getting married.........divorced soon after getting married. Papers have been written on this phenomena. In the first situation they felt they were committed by choice........in the second.....they felt it was no longer a choice but a "requirement'...


reality is that a father figure is not all that great in many situations, and the same can be said for the mother figure. Mothers have deserted their kids too. .....with the fathers bringing them up. Think one has to be understanding of each situation. ....... and for many stuck in a marriage might be the worst thing ever for the kids.
 
Ocean Breeze
#15
Quote:

Ask a fatherless man if it matters. They may minimize it by saying their mother did a great job, but they get this look on their faces - and they look down at their feet, and you will hear in their voices that it does matter - very much.

no such thing as a fatherless man. but if adults are still sensitive about whatever their upbringing was......then they have not resolved those issues within themselves....and moved forward. They are not doing themselves a favor by dwelling on something like this.......or being embarrassed by it. If they really want to deal with their "father"......then they have the option of finding him and talking it out. Kids brought up in totally dysfunctional families suffer much more.........(and many of these families present the traditional image for the world to see )
 
unclepercy
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze

NJ.......don't know what the big deal is. Society has changed.. the family unit is no longer comprised of the traditional marriage, female. male and offspring. and in that order.

Single parents are single and parents by choice too. If marriage was such a great institution .......there would be no divorces. Many want children and yet no marriage. Some want a career and children.....no marriage. Some are still stuck in the traditional mode.......which is fine if that is their choice. But here again.....do not impose YOUR value system on anyone else.

one must adjust with societal changes , and the trends of a people. Staying in the 50's.....( not so innocent an era either) is just thwarting one's own personal progress.

Value systems change. as they should. Societies are dynamic and continue to evolve.

IF this number is meant to be UNWANTED pregnancies... ( a different situation ) then something is lacking in the education of both females and males.

Keep in mind : for every unwed mother , there is an unwed father.---who surprise, surprise is just as responsible...

I suddenly respect your opinion. I wanted to say that too. VERY good point. Does Canada garnishee wages for child support? Not that it' s the cure for fatherless children, but it is still a way to show a child that you care.

Uncle
 
Ocean Breeze
#17
Quote:

Does Canada garnishee wages for child support? Not that it' s the cure for fatherless children, but it is still a way to show a child that you care.

not automatically........but yes, it does happen. ....when the "father" proves himself to be irresponsible .

Money seldom proves that anyone cares.......but it makes the situation more tolerable


each situation is assessed on its own uniqueness.
 
unclepercy
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze

Quote:

Ask a fatherless man if it matters. They may minimize it by saying their mother did a great job, but they get this look on their faces - and they look down at their feet, and you will hear in their voices that it does matter - very much.

no such thing as a fatherless man. but if adults are still sensitive about whatever their upbringing was......then they have not resolved those issues within themselves....and moved forward. They are not doing themselves a favor by dwelling on something like this.......or being embarrassed by it. If they really want to deal with their "father"......then they have the option of finding him and talking it out. Kids brought up in totally dysfunctional families suffer much more.........(and many of these families present the traditional image for the world to see )

You are rather flip about this. Adopted children have a higher rate of mental illness than biologically raised kids. I am not speaking of embarrassment - I had none of that. I am not talking about any of the scenarios mentioned.

I am talking about what it does to your heart. You feel like a kitten who was put out for adoption like an object. Are you adopted? Are you from a single parent family? Only abandoned children who grow up with a hole in their hearts, feeling unwanted, know what I am referring to.

Ask children what they want. They want a FAMILY of a mother and a father with a house. Period. I honestly feel they deserve it.

And as to your neighborhood, it couldn't be more different than mine. Everyone I know on my cul-de-sac is married. There are some re-marriages and blended families, but every single house has a mother and a father on this street of 33 houses.

Percy
 
Nascar_James
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by unclepercy

And as to your neighborhood, it couldn't be more different than mine. Everyone I know on my cul-de-sac is married. There are some re-marriages and blended families, but every single house has a mother and a father on this street of 33 houses.

Percy

Same thing here, Percy. I don't think there is any single parent family on my street. As far as I can tell, every household with kids has two parents ... the way it should be.

The family institution here is very well and alive.
 
tracy
#20
[quote="unclepercy"][quote="Ocean Breeze"]
Quote:

You are rather flip about this. Adopted children have a higher rate of mental illness than biologically raised kids. I am not speaking of embarrassment - I had none of that. I am not talking about any of the scenarios mentioned.

I am talking about what it does to your heart. You feel like a kitten who was put out for adoption like an object. Are you adopted? Are you from a single parent family? Only abandoned children who grow up with a hole in their hearts, feeling unwanted, know what I am referring to.
Percy

Whoa, speak for yourself. I'm adopted and never grew up with a hole in my heart or felt unwanted. My parents wanted me more than anything in the world and I was lucky that my birth mother loved me enough to give me a family. As far as I know, I don't have any mental illness issues... I probably would if I was raised by my bio parents though They would not have been able to provide me with the love and stability that my parents did.

Back to the topic though, I think it's pretty presumptuous to suggest that being born out of wedlock means that both parents aren't involved. Most families I see at work aren't married, but most fathers are still very involved with their babies. A legal formality doesn't make a man a father.
 
Jo Canadian
#21
 
manda
#22
Quote:

Same thing here, Percy. I don't think there is any single parent family on my street. As far as I can tell, every household with kids has two parents ... the way it should be.

The family institution here is very well and alive.

Let's not just blame fathers here in terms of child support....I happen to be very close to a situation where 2 kids live with their father, and the mother has not paid child support in 2 years....not to mention ran up bills in the fathers name when they were on opposite sides of the country.

I fail to see the problem with children born to unwed parents, as long as the parents take care of the child in all needs departments. I had my oldest when I was 17, and you can go ahead and try to find an area where you could call me a bad mother...you won't find one. But I do not appreciate the insinuation of otherwise James

I was also raised by my mother after my father ran off with his mistress. He was granted visitation rights, and my brother and I had to deal with the insecurities and emotional abuse inflicted on us by that woman. We would have been better off being raised without any input from our father considering the repercussions that we were faced with for many years afterward. Fortunately, my mother remarried a man who was able to act like a father should and show us that not all fathers are *******s
 
missile
#23
I'd never say there were no single parent families on my street! I'd be lying through my teeth if I did.On a personal note,my youngest daughter is an unwed Mom..and one of the fathers has not given her one penny in 10 years.She has taken him to court,too.
 
GL Schmitt
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Nascar_James

“. . . marriage might not happen, or it may be a short-lived union . . .”

“. . . It's really unfair to children,’ says David Popenoe, sociologist and co-director of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University. “It means more children are going to grow up without mothers and fathers. . . . ”

“ . . . children fare best when raised by their married, biological parents. . .”

“ . . . 'Any kind of divorce sows lasting inner conflict in children's lives,' says Elizabeth Marquardt. . . .”

“ . . . unwed mothers are more likely to be economically disadvantaged. . .”

“ . . . .federal data found that almost two-thirds of girls ages 15-19 agree it's OK for an unwed woman to have a child. . . .”

“ . . . 'For children born into these relationships, the couple seems to have a positive relationship and a desire to marry, but as they are followed over time, not too many of these marriages happen,' she says. . . .”

Why must I always be the one looking for the pony.

Here I thought Jimbo was totaling up all the reasons for the baby's sake to support ROE v. WADE
 
no1important
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by Nascar_James

Quote: Originally Posted by unclepercy

And as to your neighborhood, it couldn't be more different than mine. Everyone I know on my cul-de-sac is married. There are some re-marriages and blended families, but every single house has a mother and a father on this street of 33 houses.

Percy

Same thing here, Percy. I don't think there is any single parent family on my street. As far as I can tell, every household with kids has two parents ... the way it should be.

The family institution here is very well and alive.


Bible Belt Battles High Divorce Rates (external - login to view) This article is a couple years old.

The governor grumbles about how it is easier for Oklahomans to get out of a marriage than a Tupperware contract. The head of the Southern Baptist church complains that pastors are afraid to look love-besotted parishioners in the eye and tell them that they are too immature for marriage.

Here in Oklahoma, Gov. Frank Keating, also a Republican, diagnosed divorce as a principal cause of poverty in his state. He started a much-publicized, multipronged campaign, paid for with $10 million in federal welfare money, to cut the divorce rate by one-third in 10 years.

For the first time, the census showed that married couples with children made up less than a quarter of the American population (23.5 percent). In Oklahoma, the percentage of such nuclear families was even lower (23.2 percent).

Something else that caught my eye:

Massachusetts family values. (external - login to view)

President Bush and Vice President Cheney enjoy mocking "Massachusetts liberals" and casting my state as the scene of all sorts of anti-traditional behaviors. So it was with no small amount of joy that I read William V. D'Antonio's op-ed in the Globe this morning. Let's see: What does "Massachusetts liberalism" really mean in terms of family values?

The state with the lowest divorce rate in the nation is Massachusetts. At latest count it had a divorce rate of 2.4 per 1,000 population, while the rate for Texas was 4.1.

But don't take the US government's word for it. Take a look at the findings from the George Barna Research Group. George Barna, a born-again Christian whose company is in Ventura, Calif., found that Massachusetts does indeed have the lowest divorce rate among all 50 states. More disturbing was the finding that born-again Christians have among the highest divorce rates.

The Associated Press, using data supplied by the US Census Bureau, found that the highest divorce rates are to be found in the Bible Belt. The AP report stated that "the divorce rates in these conservative states are roughly 50 percent above the national average of 4.2 per thousand people." The 10 Southern states with some of the highest divorce rates were Alabama, Arkansas, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Texas. By comparison nine states in the Northeast were among those with the lowest divorce rates: Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont.

So I call "fraud and Bologna" (external - login to view) that religion or being religious makes for more stable families or that they have less single parent households.
 

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