What Happens After Death?


I think not
#1
One of the great certainty for everyone is death. Yet how many of us consider-let alone prepare for this major trauma?

What happens when we die? Nothing? Complete bliss-"eternal life? Or a vague, substantial something?

Materialists and atheists would answer nothing. For them life is a purely biological process; when the body dies the personality dies with it, just as electricity stops being generated when a battery fails, To such people life cannot "go somewhere else".

These rationalists frequently point out that the age-old belief in the afterlife is merely a reflection of Man's terror of death, of personal oblivion. Throughout history he has either avoided the unthinkable or surrounded it with ritual and a childish optimism. The materialist believes this to be craven and intellectually dishonest, we ought to face the "facts" - after all, it is true to say that the one fact of life is death.

What of the concept of "eternal life"? Nearly all religionists have preached that we survive the bodily death-in one form or another. It is probably true to say that the more sophisticated the religion, the more certainty it envisages some form of "life everlasting' for some deathless element of the individual, whether in a kind of paradise or amid the torments of hell.

If the materialist is correct, no further inquiry need be made. If the religionists are correct, then it surely behoves each individual to look to his or her salvation. But in the context of religion, belief in the afterlife must remain a matter of faith, and only the experience of our death can prove us right or wrong.

But what if neither of these rigid concepts is incorrect? What if something- some lifespark, vestige of the human personality, survives and enters a new kind of existence, not as a form of reward or punishment, but merely obeying natural law? Today many psychical researchers feel that the balance of evidence suggests that "something" does survive; not necessarily for very long after death, nor necessarily the whole personality. According to them, parts of an individual's memory-system and personality traits sometimes seem to survive for a time, enabling the disembodied self to be recognised by the living who knew him, but later perhaps to disintegrate forever.

In Western culture death is largely a taboo subject. Most of us don't like to think about the fact that one day we will die. Many people hold to the point of view that we live only once, and that after death there is either an eternal 'heaven' or 'hell' or there is 'nothing' at all. Both these points of view are something of 'an easy solution'. If we have some fixed prospect then there is no need anymore to think about it..

Philosophically speaking, the concept of 'heaven' and 'hell' as static states is a bit childish. Nature herself shows that everything is in a constant change of flux, motion, change. Change is the essence of life. Plato provides some interesting food for thought in his Phaedo. Socrates argues in that dialogue that everywhere in nature we can observe the play of opposites: day and night, sleeping and waking, life and death, etc. Regarding the pairs of opposites he notes that everything has the possibility to pass into its opposite state. Every pair of opposites has transitionary forms, e.g. good and bad have as transitions: getting better and getting worse. Night comes forth out of day via twilight, and day comes forth out of night via dawn.

Sleep comes forth out of being awake and being awake out of sleep. With each of these pairs of opposites one can find transitionary states or forms. Moreover, one can understand that these opposites and transitional forms are always a state of something and that the appearance of this something is only a transition from one state to another. If this applies to all pairs of opposites then the question arises whether life and death are also such a pair of opposites. If so, then it would be logical that there are transitionary states for life and death too. Death is certainly opposite to manifest life, so let's start searching for transitionary states. One gets into life through birth. One gets into the state of death by dying. One can only die because one lives now. Analogous, one can only get into life because one has been dead before.

Conclusion: life and death come forth out of each other and pass into each other via transitional states. A very plausible reasoning indeed! One has only to observe the processes of nature to see endless cycles going on and on. The key question is what is it exactly that is going through these changing states? Answer: it is CONSCIOUSNESS.

Man is consciousness, and specifically gifted with the power of reflection, thinking. The personality (persona = mask) is a temporary vehicle builded by the real human monad in order to express itself on the outer planes of life. The higher aspects of thinking can be brought into expression on this outer planes too, thereby providing the means of verifying the truth of reincarnation, or, as some prefer to call it: palingenesis
 
Reverend Blair
#2
When you die your body begins to decompose, first by the action of micro-organisms, then by the maggots the flies lay in your dead flesh. If you are left outside, animals (wild and domestic) will snack on your flesh.

It's actually an amazing process.
 
mps
#3
Nice perspectives you've got there.

My own perspective has much to do with the first law of thermodynamics - energy cannot be created, or destroyed. Everything is essentially a manifestation of energy - atoms comprise cells, which comprise bodies; and thought, or consciousness is essentially firing neurons, or more energy.

So when we die, our physicality obviously dissolves and becomes something else (compost, or whatever), but I also feel that our consciousness exists in some state. Maybe it's returned to some energy source, or an plane of anti-entropy. I'm not sure.

I also think there's a difference between consciousness and personality. Technically you no longer exist, but what you've come to know just might. If energy can't be created or destroyed then that seems plausible. Or maybe not.
 
Jo Canadian
#4
I'd have to smoke a few before answering that one.

All I can say is that the energy that runs our bodies must come from somewhere and probably goes back to where it came from before being recycled in natures endless cycle. I guess I'd be more partial to the native belief on our interconnection with nature and the world.
 
I think not
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

When you die your body begins to decompose, first by the action of micro-organisms, then by the maggots the flies lay in your dead flesh. If you are left outside, animals (wild and domestic) will snack on your flesh.

It's actually an amazing process.

I'm convinced Rev is related to Freddy Krueger
 
Jay
#6
Most people here know where I stand on this subject...

"Nature herself shows that everything is in a constant change of flux, motion, change. Change is the essence of life."

I think this is cool...if it were not for the chaos in our system, matter would be in state of perfection, and no life could exist.
 
I think not
#7
Let's set religion aside for a moment.

You're born and then you die.

Can we all think if the in between process should have a meaning or impact on anything? Society? Inventions? Innovations?

If it doesn't, what was the purpose of our existence in comparison with the universe?

Should there be a purpose?

I think so. Such as maggots and other forms of life serve a purpose to balance nature so should humans.

So when we close our eyes forever, everything we were, is gone?

I hope not.
 
Reverend Blair
#8
Quote:

Let's set religion aside for a moment.

Your born and then you die.

Can we all think if the in between process should have a meaning or impact on anything? Society? Inventions? Innovations?

We have the same purpose as every other organism...making more of us. That's the way that evolution works. All else is just the vanity of our species...an accident of the big brains that are our main survival adaptation.
 
mps
#9
* double posts eat my poo *
 
mps
#10
That's a pretty big question there.

Even the most nihilistic philosophers feel that people should act morally. The only real question is Who dictates morality? Some feel it is innate, some feel that soceity creates its own laws, some feel that we should all make our own. Hobbes is the only fence sitter really. He essentially states that we should only act morally if it benefits us. Now he's dead.

Having said that, one purpose of life could be to live virtuously.

Personally I think the purpose is expereince.
 
Laika
#11
An athiest would not necessarily reply "Nothing". An athiest does not believe in God; it does not follow that he does not believe in spirituality or an existence outside of the physical, three-dimensional plane.

Meaning is only a reflection of one's values and is subject to different interpretations and definitions of the individual.
 
Jo Canadian
#12
Quote:

We have the same purpose as every other organism...making more of us. That's the way that evolution works. All else is just the vanity of our species...an accident of the big brains that are our main survival adaptation.

Actually did anyone hear David Suzuki on Ideas last night on the Radio? He was on the topic of our brains being our survival adaptation in regards to using it in predicting and controlling our environment and how we've lost the foresight of that connection in our modern world. It was also a religious topic and if I had the speech it would fit in well here.
 
Jay
#13
"So when we close our eyes forever, everything we were, is gone?

I hope not."

I hope not too, hence my faith....

It is incomprehensible to me that this life if for not and nothing comes of it but death,even though… all things die, and the universe too will shed itself of life and die...and nothing will be visible, and nothing will see it….and death will reign forever….

The only hope we have is “oh death, were is thy victory; were is thy sting?” OT



John in the NT says, "Great is the mystery of God...”

Life is a mystery of profound proportions and the mystery remains. The question has not been answered by science, nor will it ever be, because it isn’t a rational thing in human terms.

Life as we know it cannot be for nothing, for if it was, what is of love, compassion and understanding; what propose does it serve?

Am I rambling here…?
 
Reverend Blair
#14
I heard that, Jo. I always check to see what's on Ideas.
 
Knightman
#15
What Happens After Death?

Nothing, we are dead, like any mammal.

Humans seem to have some built in arrogance that makes them believe the species is special, its not, we really need to get over it.......
 
mps
#16
Quote:

Humans seem to have some built in arrogance that makes them believe the species is special, its not, we really need to get over it.......

It might have something to do with all the "special" things the species can do. When other mammals start utilizing logic and sciences to progress their species, your argument might be relevant.
 
Reverend Blair
#17
Those same logic and sciences have done absolutely nothing to indicate the existence of an afterlife, mps.
 
Jay
#18
It would be impossible to do so.
 
Knightman
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by mps

Quote:

Humans seem to have some built in arrogance that makes them believe the species is special, its not, we really need to get over it.......

It might have something to do with all the "special" things the species can do. When other mammals start utilizing logic and sciences to progress their species, your argument might be relevant.

Yes, we are very good at devising ways to kill each other and over concepts that humans invented, most mammals are much more civilized...........
 
Jay
#20
like rats for instance....
 
Reverend Blair
#21
Rats are more social than most humans.
 
Jay
#22
OK, Lions...the male lions will instantly kill off spring that isn't theirs...now that's not to say that the thought hasn't crossed my mind, but....
 
Vanni Fucci
#23
I had a pet rat when I was a kid...his name was Percy...

In my opinion, he was far more intelligent than many of the dogs that I've had over the years, and easier to train...

Unfortunately, he was as free a spirit as I was, and he decided to go his own way...

Even more unfortunate is the fact that my mother had several cats in the house, and Percy's bid for freedom met with his untimely demise...

Poor, poor Percy...
 
Jay
#24
Poor Percy...

Rats do make fine little pets...
 
no1important
#25
Nothing happens after you die other than your body decomposing.

The concept of heaven, hell, reincarnation, after life etc were created by man out of their fear of dying. And over time, some people became brainwashed to actually believe in some sort of afterlife. It makes them feel better and offers some sort of false hope.

Not to mention how some found out they could make loads of money, from pushing ancient myth's that are all unfounded.
 
Twila
#26
Quote:

When other mammals start utilizing logic and sciences to progress their species, your argument might be relevant.

Animals do use logic (they think and problem solve). Many animals self medicate. I'm not sure what you mean by Advance their species. Humans seem to have created more problems then those they've solved. IT may just be that animals already know the problems inherent in "advancement" and so don't.


Vanni, I too had pet rats....Several. The first was Ratchard the turd, aka Ratturd. Had 9 others after him.
And they do make wonderful pets......Scared the hell out of my cats.....


As to what happens after we die....I believe that's it. This living that we're doing now (or at least suppose to be doing now) is IT. That's all...
 
mrmom2
#27
Meat for the worms or fuel for the furnace :P
 
Jay
#28
I suppose it is sad for me to see so many people feel that way....
 
Twila
#29
Why's that Jay?
 
mrmom2
#30
Are you religious Jay I'm probably this way bacause I was force fed religion when I was younger pissed me right off I'll never do that to my kids but if they want to learn about it then I'll help
 

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