Do you believe fate??
- Thread starter cindy1217
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Actually, Cindy, I'm interested in hearing what people have to say about this. I haven't decided yet whether I believe in fate or not. For the moment, while I'm unsure about fate and what control I have over it, I am sure about one thing: It is my responsibility to deal with whatever comes my way.
A quote from one of my favourite philosophers:
"Everything can be taken away from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedom -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."
Author: Viktor E. Frankl 1905-, Austrian Psychiatrist, Neurology, Writer, ''Man's Search for Meaning''
He was in a German concentration camp when he wrote that. Makes me reconsider when I start whining about the things in my life I don't like!
Being sad is ok ... I think my "negative" emotions are just a way of indicating what areas of my life need a little renovation. If I get too comfortable I miss out on stuff.
A quote from one of my favourite philosophers:
"Everything can be taken away from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedom -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."
Author: Viktor E. Frankl 1905-, Austrian Psychiatrist, Neurology, Writer, ''Man's Search for Meaning''
He was in a German concentration camp when he wrote that. Makes me reconsider when I start whining about the things in my life I don't like!
Being sad is ok ... I think my "negative" emotions are just a way of indicating what areas of my life need a little renovation. If I get too comfortable I miss out on stuff.
I believe in fate. Why? I'm not sure except that I believe things happen for a reason. And we can only control so much in our lives. I also think we bring a certain amount of circumstance onto ourself, kinda like what goes around comes around.
Not very insightful, but that's my thoughts on the subject.
Not very insightful, but that's my thoughts on the subject.
I'm not really sure what anyone means by fate. Usually it seems to mean that some things are going to happen that were decided by some supernatural agency and there's nothing anyone can do about it. If that's what you mean here, Cindy, I'd have to say no, I don't believe in fate, nothing is fated to happen. It has certain religious overtones that I just don't accept. I don't believe everything is possible either; reality does set some limits.
I'm very curious though. From your two messages in here, it seems that some situation in your life has made you very sad, you're trying to decide what to do about it, and what Cosmo said helped you make a decision. Would you like to share a little more of the details with us?
I'm very curious though. From your two messages in here, it seems that some situation in your life has made you very sad, you're trying to decide what to do about it, and what Cosmo said helped you make a decision. Would you like to share a little more of the details with us?
Dexter Sinister said:
Good point Dex. I don't believe some "supernatural agency" is sitting up there pulling strings, having us dance like the wooden guy on the Robaxcet commercial. I believe that there are situations in life that are inevitable convergence of a multitude of singular actions and choices of both ourselves and the people around us. I believe there are times in life when we end up in a particular place or circumstance as a result of a culmination of these divergent conditions. That is how I see "fate".
I also believe there is some power greater than us mere humans in play. I think this "power" helps me end up exactly where I need to be for my greatest good. Sometimes it takes me a while to see the good, but without circumstances being precisely what they have been in my life, I would not be who/where I am today. Personally, I see this "power" more like nature -- more indifferent than maternal or paternal -- but I have faith that it continually guides me toward my best purpose. Kinda like Darwin's evolution in that I am continually evolving toward the most useful and efficient state of spiritual being.
Unlike evolution, though, the fly in the ointment is free will. I have the choice as to whether or not I choose to use the circumstances in my life to move up the spiritual evolutionary chain. Sometimes it feels easier to stay static or even to devolve, but ultimately it doesn't pay. "Fate", if you will, repeatedly offers me the opportunity to do what is in my best interest. I have found the longer I resist, the more difficult the situations I get myself into.
As Dexter mentioned, Cindy, perhaps you would like to share a bit more of your situation with us? Sometimes just putting it into words helps clarify it.
First off, Cindy, you give your location as China. Where in China? I've been to Beijing, Nanchang, Ningbo, Shanghai, and Hangzhou (sp?)......
With regards to Fate, yes, to a certain extent I believe in Fate. But, take note of the following tale about faith in God as told from a Christian point of view:
A man was in a great flood, and as the waters rose, he climbed up onto his roof. Soon enough, two men in a rowboat came by, and offered him a ride. "No thanks, he said, "God will provide." So they continued on their way to rescue others. A short time later, a power boat with three firemen came by, and they offered him a rescue.
"No thanks, he said, "God will provide." So they continued on their way to rescue others. Then a helicopter hovered over his head, and the firemen inside demanded that he get onboard. "No thanks, he said, "God will provide."
As the water continued to rise, he drowned. When he met God, he asked why he died; after all, he had total faith in God's ability to help.
"Look," said God. "I sent you a rowboat, a power boat, and a helicopter. What more did you expect?"
That sums up how I feel about Fate; some things are going to happen, but that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility to try.
With regards to Fate, yes, to a certain extent I believe in Fate. But, take note of the following tale about faith in God as told from a Christian point of view:
A man was in a great flood, and as the waters rose, he climbed up onto his roof. Soon enough, two men in a rowboat came by, and offered him a ride. "No thanks, he said, "God will provide." So they continued on their way to rescue others. A short time later, a power boat with three firemen came by, and they offered him a rescue.
"No thanks, he said, "God will provide." So they continued on their way to rescue others. Then a helicopter hovered over his head, and the firemen inside demanded that he get onboard. "No thanks, he said, "God will provide."
As the water continued to rise, he drowned. When he met God, he asked why he died; after all, he had total faith in God's ability to help.
"Look," said God. "I sent you a rowboat, a power boat, and a helicopter. What more did you expect?"
That sums up how I feel about Fate; some things are going to happen, but that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility to try.
First, thanks to all who is interested in my thread and give me some suggestion. I would like to share my story with you and hope you don’t laugh at me after that. Just we plan our future after we graduated fm college, my BF got a eye disease—retina pigmentation which is very terrible chronic disease and it’s final result is blind. When my parents heard the news, they stop me from contacting him. My bf is an excellent boy. He has an unhappy childhood and got little care fm his parents. So I told a lie to my parents in order to continue to be with him. But his eyes come to be worse. He can’t see clearly in the dark at first, now, his sight is down and he can’t see very clearly even in the day. Unluckily, the doctor told us that there is no effective way to cure this kind of disease up to now.
Now, he loses confidence to do everything. Actually he wants to do a lot of things that he had done but now could not done. I really don’t know what I should do to help him. He is still very young (only 24) and have a long way to go.
What Cosmo said give me a little encouragement to face the problem in a good attitude. Crying is no use.
Now, he loses confidence to do everything. Actually he wants to do a lot of things that he had done but now could not done. I really don’t know what I should do to help him. He is still very young (only 24) and have a long way to go.
What Cosmo said give me a little encouragement to face the problem in a good attitude. Crying is no use.
Aw Cindy, I'm so sorry to read that. It's actually called retinitis pigmentosa in English, which is obviously not your first language, but good for you for trying hard.
For the information of those not familiar with it, retinitis pigmentosa is an eye disease that first affects a person's night vision and then peripheral vision. It's a genetic disorder, and usually hereditary. Symptoms start with decreased night vision and progress to a diminishing of peripheral vision, until the victim of it sees the world as if through a narrow tube. It doesn't always lead to complete blindness, but it's still a very serious visual handicap. There's no treatment, and no cure, but it's not hopeless either. Check this out:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001029.htm
Nice story TenPenny, I like that one. I first heard it years ago, and passed it on to a friend of mine who's an Anglican minister. He reported that he used it to good effect in a sermon, to make the point that just because you have faith, don't assume you really know what's going on.
I have to disagree with you a little, Cosmo, I see no reason to believe, or even suspect, there's some greater power in play. As far as I can tell, we're alone on this little planet and we're completely responsible--to each other--for what we do with it. I iimmediately agree completely with your first paragraph, if I've understood you correctly. What you seem to me to be saying there is that we can't control the circumstances of our own lives completely because there are other players on the stage, but I am unable to make the leap that starts your second paragraph. I think all we have is each other, there is no higher power paying any attention to us. I often wish there were, but the evidence I see doesn't justify such a conclusion.
Dex
For the information of those not familiar with it, retinitis pigmentosa is an eye disease that first affects a person's night vision and then peripheral vision. It's a genetic disorder, and usually hereditary. Symptoms start with decreased night vision and progress to a diminishing of peripheral vision, until the victim of it sees the world as if through a narrow tube. It doesn't always lead to complete blindness, but it's still a very serious visual handicap. There's no treatment, and no cure, but it's not hopeless either. Check this out:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001029.htm
Nice story TenPenny, I like that one. I first heard it years ago, and passed it on to a friend of mine who's an Anglican minister. He reported that he used it to good effect in a sermon, to make the point that just because you have faith, don't assume you really know what's going on.
I have to disagree with you a little, Cosmo, I see no reason to believe, or even suspect, there's some greater power in play. As far as I can tell, we're alone on this little planet and we're completely responsible--to each other--for what we do with it. I iimmediately agree completely with your first paragraph, if I've understood you correctly. What you seem to me to be saying there is that we can't control the circumstances of our own lives completely because there are other players on the stage, but I am unable to make the leap that starts your second paragraph. I think all we have is each other, there is no higher power paying any attention to us. I often wish there were, but the evidence I see doesn't justify such a conclusion.
Dex
Cindy; encourage bf to do everything (except perhaps drive a car or motorcycle). What the hell; life is here for the living. In the words of my roommate back in the old UNB days: GIVE 'ER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a difficult thing to have to deal with, Cindy. My heart goes out to you. My partner has MS (multiple sclerosis) so Ido understand what it is like to live with someone who has a physical problem. All I can tell you about it, Cindy, is that if the two of you love one another, you can get through anything. As simplistic as that sounds, I have found over the past 2 years that looking past the disease is not that difficult when the person behind it is someone I love and admire.
One thing I would mention, though. When we found out my partner had MS, I sat down and took a long, hard, realistic look at whether or not I would be able to cope with it, no matter how bad it got. MS can be very bad, can even cause people to die. I had to be sure I would be able to see it through, that the disease would not be too much for me to handle eventually.
I thought it was only fair to her to be absolutely sure I had the ability to live with her disease. If I said I would be there, I wanted to make sure I could keep that promise. There is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting it is too difficult to deal with if you have doubts about your ability to live with his retinitis pigmentosa. It does not reflect badly on you to admit you cannot do it. It is not an easy road. I think it is more honourable to step away immediately if you have doubts, before your partner comes to depend on you as an ally against his condition. That kind of self honesty is not easy, but I think owning up to what I can and can't do is the greatest gift I can give those I love. Just a little page from my own experience book.
Good luck to you. It appears to me that just by coming here to this forum you are seeking a way to think and talk about your situation, that you are not just rushing ahead without thinking it through. I have learned that reaching out for a little help and support goes a long way to dealing with things. I hope you find what you need here in the forum. Great bunch of thinkers here -- not to mention just plain nice people.
We can't control everything but we end up right where we're supposed to be.
My own personal experiences have led me to the conclusion I'm not the smartest thing in the Universe. I guess I would be one step removed from agnostic ... there is a power that I cannot understand. But like electricity, it does not stop me from using it to enhance my life.
I'm not so sure our opinions are that radically different, Dex. I believe in a god that is mostly indifferent which means we end up relying on ourselves and our fellow humans. You believe there is no god which means we end up relying on ourselves and our fellow humans. Like the TenPenny's anecdote, I think that "divine assistance" comes through other people. The whole burning bush thing isn't likely to happen and if it does, they just lock you up in a psych ward somewhere.
Egad, I do yap, don't I!!
Again, Cindy, the best of luck to you. All I can suggest is to follow your heart and not let any sense of duty (either to your parents or to your boyfriend) drag you off your correct path. In the end, doing what we most want to do (not what we "should" do) makes us and everyone around us happiest. I've heard it referred to as "enlightened self interest". What makes me happy makes me more able to bring some good stuff into the lives of the people around me. Or at least that's been my experience.
One thing I would mention, though. When we found out my partner had MS, I sat down and took a long, hard, realistic look at whether or not I would be able to cope with it, no matter how bad it got. MS can be very bad, can even cause people to die. I had to be sure I would be able to see it through, that the disease would not be too much for me to handle eventually.
I thought it was only fair to her to be absolutely sure I had the ability to live with her disease. If I said I would be there, I wanted to make sure I could keep that promise. There is absolutely nothing wrong with admitting it is too difficult to deal with if you have doubts about your ability to live with his retinitis pigmentosa. It does not reflect badly on you to admit you cannot do it. It is not an easy road. I think it is more honourable to step away immediately if you have doubts, before your partner comes to depend on you as an ally against his condition. That kind of self honesty is not easy, but I think owning up to what I can and can't do is the greatest gift I can give those I love. Just a little page from my own experience book.
Good luck to you. It appears to me that just by coming here to this forum you are seeking a way to think and talk about your situation, that you are not just rushing ahead without thinking it through. I have learned that reaching out for a little help and support goes a long way to dealing with things. I hope you find what you need here in the forum. Great bunch of thinkers here -- not to mention just plain nice people.
Ain't that what makes this forum so very interesting, Dex? I love hearing others views on this stuff. It either helps me see a better alternative to my own way of interpreting things or it gives me the opportunity to articulate what I think and solidifies it in my own mind. Either way, I love the diversity. The whole "god" debate delights me. I thoroughly enjoy learning the perspective of others.Dexter Sinister said:
Yep. That's what I meant. Sometimes I get all wordy.Dexter Sinister said:
We can't control everything but we end up right where we're supposed to be.No leap to make. Just an expression of what I believe. I don't think "fate" and the existance of "god" (for lack of a less loaded term) are mutually exclusive. As for evidence, well, I don't have any real, first-person evidence that electricity exists either. I've been told about it, told how it works, etc. etc. but in reality it's faith that the coffee maker is going to do its thing when I turn it on. I have no direct personal proof that it's some invisible form of energy harnessed through a wall socket that actually makes my morning brew possible. Of course the argument to that is that science can measure and quantify electricity, but because I have no such skill, I must take it on faith that it is true. Just like they used to take it on faith the world was flat.Dexter Sinister said:
My own personal experiences have led me to the conclusion I'm not the smartest thing in the Universe. I guess I would be one step removed from agnostic ... there is a power that I cannot understand. But like electricity, it does not stop me from using it to enhance my life.
I'm not so sure our opinions are that radically different, Dex. I believe in a god that is mostly indifferent which means we end up relying on ourselves and our fellow humans. You believe there is no god which means we end up relying on ourselves and our fellow humans. Like the TenPenny's anecdote, I think that "divine assistance" comes through other people. The whole burning bush thing isn't likely to happen and if it does, they just lock you up in a psych ward somewhere.
Egad, I do yap, don't I!!
Again, Cindy, the best of luck to you. All I can suggest is to follow your heart and not let any sense of duty (either to your parents or to your boyfriend) drag you off your correct path. In the end, doing what we most want to do (not what we "should" do) makes us and everyone around us happiest. I've heard it referred to as "enlightened self interest". What makes me happy makes me more able to bring some good stuff into the lives of the people around me. Or at least that's been my experience.
Cosmo said:Egad, I do yap, don't I!!
Yeah, you do, but you have the great virtue of being interesting and entertaining while you're doing it, so yap away.
Very touching message about your partner's MS. I've never had to face anything like that in my life, my wife and children and all my brothers and sisters and their spouses and children, and me too, are all strong healthy people with no known medical problems. I've no idea how I'd respond to a test of my goodness and decency like that. I hope I'd respond as you did, and I'd certainly like to think I would, but I don't know. And because of that, your support of Cindy carries a lot more weight than mine. I have only an intellectual understanding, but you're living it. Blessings upon you and your household for sharing it here. You sound like somebody I'd like to meet in real life.
And you're completely right, this is the stuff that makes these forums so interesting and useful. Diversity of opinion, intelligent people whose views differ from mine, help keep my own mind active. Besides, as I wrote in some other thread here not long ago, if we agreed on everything we'd have nothing to talk about.
I've been surfing the Internet almost since it began, and I've observed that the general level of discourse is not high. This is a good place.
Dex
Dex, thank you so much. What lovely compliments. And the blessings are gratefully accepted. I have many that I frequently count.
I agree ... this is a good place. Thoughtful, insightful and highly entertaining people. I'm glad peapod pointed me here!
And the blessings are gratefully accepted. I have many that I frequently count.I agree ... this is a good place. Thoughtful, insightful and highly entertaining people. I'm glad peapod pointed me here!