Assumptions

Haggis McBagpipe
#1
Do we make too many assumptions, all the while thinking we don't?

Do you assume a beautiful young woman is 'stuck up'?

Do you see very old people and assume they are kindly?

Do you assume that the driver of an old beater is poor?

If a person speaks poorly, do you assume they are stupid?

If a person is dressed like a bum, do you assume he is?

Can you tell whether an unseen writer is a man or a woman by what and how he/she writes?
 
Diamond Sun
#2
I think we all make assumptions. What really matters is if you allow those assumptions to govern your attitude towards that person and not allow their real personality to come out.

While we might assume that a beautiful woman is stuck up, she may just be shy. It is hard for beautiful people to make friends because of the intimidation factor (that Haggis mentioned in some other thread), and if you don't make friends you don't get social skills and you become afraid of being in public settings. Thus shy translates into stuck up.

P.S. Haggis..I like the last one. I try to guess when on these forums, but sometimes it is very hard.
 
Haggis McBagpipe
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Diamond Sun

While we might assume that a beautiful woman is stuck up, she may just be shy.

P.S. Haggis..I like the last one. I try to guess when on these forums, but sometimes it is very hard.

I like your answer. As for the last one, sometimes it is hard to know. Most people on forums quickly identify themselves as one sex or another, but some do not, which makes the assumptions that are inevitably drawn quite interesting.

As for the beautiful young woman, I know of one who works in a local coffee bean shop. Oh my, she is a stunner. She is treated with awe by most, but I have always just treated her as a person rather than as a goddess. She is, with others, quite aloof... with me, she is warm and talkative.
 
American Voice
#4
Question: would you online chat, i.e., MSN instant message with someone with whom you were not already well-acquainted socially in the conventional sense? Does the ethereality of the medium not require imagination to compensate for the absence of physical cues that are present in physical interaction? Memory from familiarity fills the deficit where physical proximity is missing. What fills the void when any history of physical familiarity is lacking? A projection of expectations? Just curious.
 
peapod
#5
posting deleted
 
American Voice
#6
Thank you, Peapod, that was a very gratifying thing to read. I admire your frankness. It was brave of you to tell.

My assumption is: you are a young woman.

I have had only one experience of instant-messaging. I brought to it an emotional development commensurate with my age, but I found myself lost at sea, because I could not see her face, her eyes, the inflection in her voice, her smile, her scent, and so on. When I expressed a desire to meet her, my casual expression of desire was misinterpreted as an intention to travel. I made the mistake of conversing as I would have done on a date with a woman I had met at a party. I assumed--and wrongly--that there was a person of more or less equal emotional sophistication at the other end. Two problems: the internet as barrier, rather than as bridge; compounding a rather large difference in age.

Honestly, now I have this oddly compelling desire to make the same mistake with you. I lived in a college dorm for a year, and I know the kind of a hothouse atmosphere that can be, socially. It was co-ed by room. All those beds, all those doors, no parents and no brothers around--some things are inevitable. Is that the way it is here? I'm not saying that internet friendships are not legitimate, but they are distinctly different from conventional ones.

Haggis, you've hit another homerun with this thread.
 
peapod
#7
posting deleted
 
researchok
#8
I never get hit on, peapod.

I'm afraid of baseball bats.

Happy Canada Day!
 
American Voice
#9
It was certainly not my intention to "hit on" anyone, I only thought that Peapod and I might explore this brave new world a little more immediately, that's all.

To "flood" a thread is an imposition on the group, like two people monopolizing the dining room at a dinner party. Take the conversation out onto the porch. That's what PM means to me. If it's comfortable, chat is like a date--private conversation across a booth table, that's all. No one learns social skills on the internet, but can mature social skills be pressed through the wire? That's the issue here.
 
Haggis McBagpipe
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by American Voice

To "flood" a thread is an imposition on the group, like two people monopolizing the dining room at a dinner party. Take the conversation out onto the porch. That's what PM means to me. If it's comfortable, chat is like a date--private conversation across a booth table, that's all. No one learns social skills on the internet, but can mature social skills be pressed through the wire? That's the issue here.

You have made good points here, AV. The only thing I'd wonder about is this, a forum is, for many, a rather time-consuming habit. To quickly post on the forum is one thing, but to get caught up with private messaging to even a few members could push one's forum usage right out of sight.

I think the occasional bantering back and forth is fun and not particularly unpleasant for 'bystanders', as it were, and in keeping with your analogy of the dinner party, often the most enjoyable parties do involve a short session of two people running a bit of an amusing tete a tete.

So, I think you're partially right, but I also think things are going swimmingly on this forum, don't you? I wouldn't want to see restrictions on such momentary diversions to which you refer. At the risk of sounding a bit maudlin, I seriously do feel enriched for the pleasure of getting to know you all.
 
Diamond Sun
#11
I know another assumption. If you see a woman in a high ranking position (under a male boss) it's assumed either

a) She's the boss's daughter
OR
b) she's sleeping with the boss

Most people have trouble believing a woman can be successful on her own merit.
 
American Voice
#12
Which is why I made the change from $16.95 USD for 150 hours a month, to $21.95 USD for unlimited hours, taking effect July 12. I agree wholeheartedly, Haggis.
 
American Voice
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by Diamond Sun

I know another assumption. If you see a woman in a high ranking position (under a male boss) it's assumed either

a) She's the boss's daughter
OR
b) she's sleeping with the boss

Most people have trouble believing a woman can be successful on her own merit.

The moderating presence of a woman! Thank you, DS. Talk to us! We are behaving like a herd of jackasses!
 
Diamond Sun
#14
Yes, but I'm used to that. A little eyelash batting goes a long way.

So, to get back on track, for now, why do you think people make these assumptions. I'm guilty of it. I don't know anyone who isn't.
 
researchok
#15
Part of the human condition.

"The truly free man is self controlled"- Tallyrand
 
Diamond Sun
#16
You say it's part of the human condition, does that make it acceptable?
 
researchok
#17
No, it doesnt-- but we learn from self examination.

We overcome our weaknesses and become better, I would hope
 
Haggis McBagpipe
#18
Can you tell a man from a woman simply by how he/she writes?
 
Diamond Sun
#19
no. I think we make the assumption that men write better than women, even though it's patently not true. (current company excepted of course)
 
researchok
#20
I dont think so-- I work everyday with excellent women writers.
 
Haggis McBagpipe
#21
Aside from writing well or not, are there phrases, nuances, tones, whatever, that women, not men, use? And vice versa? What, for example, makes you all assume I am a man? Is it the way I write? The words I use? What makes you assume Research is a man, not a woman? And American Voice? Etc.? What is it we do/say/write that identifies our sex when we are not visible and/or have not stated our sex?
 
Diamond Sun
#22
Perhaps the tone of the writing. Very strong and opinionated writing tends to gravitate towards males while women write softer and more balanced. Maybe?
 
researchok
#23
Not always, DS.

The women I work with and others I know do write very opinionated and strongly worded essays/reports.

But in general, Id have to agree. Women tend to be more descriptive and nuanced.

Men tend to be more graphic and direct.
 
American Voice
#24
I am a male. I believe it is crucial in this medium to be as forthcoming as is prudent, and to leave as little to the imagination as is necessary. Otherwise, this medium, lacking conventional, physical cues, cannot but fail as a quasi-social medium, and will become the stalking-ground of the eagerly, overly imaginative. MSN has a reputation for being the medium of--excuse my French--dirty talk and masturbation. It might be a hybrid of the telephone and the typewriter, but it has become the modus operandus of the voyeur and the sadist. Can the internet be claimed for good?
 
Diamond Sun
#25
I have met some very wonderful people via the internet, and similarily I have met some very not wonderful people. I think it's up to us as individuals to trust our gut on what people are saying, and obviously never to meet in a dark alley.
 
researchok
#26
Just let common sense prevail, as with all things.

The internet is like a bar, church or anywhere else.
 
Haggis McBagpipe
#27
To state one's gender sometimes sets off small but unmistakeable changes in the way people act.

As with so much that is anonymous about this form of interaction, anonymous gender simply means being treated as a person, rather than as a man or woman (with all the flirtations, et al, that go with it).

So then, is it wrong to allow others to make assumptions about gender? About appearance? About employment? About social status?
 
researchok
#28
Wrong?

Isnt that more of a personality thing-- the inquisitiveness?
 
American Voice
#29
Is it wrong to force others to make assumptions? I think it is discourteous, and manifests a lack of respect. Relationships are founded on honesty and respect. It's hard enough when we are face-to-face. Deprived of the normal physical cues, it becomes irrational. The technology has outstripped our capacity for adaptation.
 
researchok
#30
Assumptions are rarely forced.

We make them om our own.

As for technology, we adapt-- its not a substitute for real interaction-- just another form.
 
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