Government's Plan For Indiginous People

davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
2,084
0
36
Southern Ontario
Government is forging ahead with plans to spend billions to improve conditions for indigenous people. I agree that education is the best way to go. But consider the following:

Some of the communities in which these indigenous people live are so remote from the hubs of civilization that education, delivered in their habitat will be useless. Here's why.
Think about what it would be like to be born and raised in a community so far from the general population that there is no exposure whatsoever to other races and cultures, no theaters to attend, no sports centers, no shopping malls, no decent living conditions, no ready access to health care and no industry by which to work and earn a living. What does a young man or woman raised in such an environment do with his/her life?
If they stay in their community there is nothing for them but to marry a local person and have babies and carry on in the same lifestyle as previous generations. If they leave and go where there might be opportunities of some kind, they will almost certainly face discrimination, abuse or find themselves unqualified for whatever positions are available. They will be like fish out of water.

I don't know how it came about that they were ever isolated in such remote locations. Perhaps many decades ago it was an acceptable existence they eked out there. But times have changed and it is no longer reasonable in today's world to expect people of those remote areas to be able to cope.

The only thing I can imagine that would bring about real positive change would be to shut down those locations and move the entire community to a location close to a hub of high population. Then provide modern, well equipped schools where they can get the kind of education and exposure to modern day lifestyles that is necessary.
School children need to be able to form athletic team and compete with each other. They need the opportunity to form a school band, a drama club, a debating team, take field trips. So much more than academics! What chance will the children of indigenous people have to form and compete in those activities in their present settings?
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
If the fur trade hadn't become so vilified, there were lots of opportunities. Funny thing about "progress".... It puts people out of work while giving others another reason to denigrate them
 

davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
2,084
0
36
Southern Ontario
Are you suggesting we forcibly relocate people?

No. I am suggesting that they be given that option. If their living conditions are so very poor as reported to be and if the advantages of relocation were presented to them it is reasonable that they would want it.
I'm not suggesting that they should be suddenly dumped into the midst of a society that is foreign to them; just that they be relocated closer so that they could become enured to today's mainstream society gradually. Sort of like a 'half way house'.
Do you have any better ideas? Or can you think of any reasons why this could not be of benefit?

Governments have not been good at projects like this unification plan they are talking about for First Nations. In the past they have invariably dished out countless millions on projects and then abandon them to work out as best as can. Once they have put the money out, their attitude is always, 'mission accomplished' with no follow up or making necessary adjustments if they appear to be needed.
It would be good to see this as a worthwhile project that yields positive results.
 

Ludlow

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 7, 2014
13,588
0
36
wherever i sit down my ars
No. I am suggesting that they be given that option. If their living conditions are so very poor as reported to be and if the advantages of relocation were presented to them it is reasonable that they would want it.
I'm not suggesting that they should be suddenly dumped into the midst of a society that is foreign to them; just that they be relocated closer so that they could become enured to today's mainstream society gradually. Sort of like a 'half way house'.
Do you have any better ideas? Or can you think of any reasons why this could not be of benefit?

Governments have not been good at projects like this unification plan they are talking about for First Nations. In the past they have invariably dished out countless millions on projects and then abandon them to work out as best as can. Once they have put the money out, their attitude is always, 'mission accomplished' with no follow up or making necessary adjustments if they appear to be needed.
It would be good to see this as a worthwhile project that yields positive results.
Why don't ye just leave them the fook alone? Just a thought
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
Would you want to be relocated away from the only home your family has known - a place where ancestors are buried and where new generations have risen? The concept of "of the land" isn't an easy one for many to understand
 

davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
2,084
0
36
Southern Ontario
Would you want to be relocated away from the only home your family has known - a place where ancestors are buried and where new generations have risen? The concept of "of the land" isn't an easy one for many to understand

I'm saying what I said. Options! Read carefully!
Do you think they would prefer to stay where they are with their present conditions? If so, that's their choice. I just don't see what can be done to make conditions better for them without drastic changes. Bu it's their choice.

Fortunately I'm not faced with that choice. But my ancestors were and made the sacrifice as did hundreds of thousands of other immigrants who left their homelands, ventured into a strange new land knowing they would never see their family again. It was their choice and they did what they had to do for a better way of life.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
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63
In the bush near Sudbury
They already have that option - and it doesn't seem to work well. Attitudes are still the greatest of stumbling blocks - some of them attitudes like yours. Tell me ... do you read up or down 'cuz you sure like to TALK down.

A friend once pointed out his nice shiney pickup truck, and his well maintained snowmobile, a beautiful classic car ... and his rough-looking, repairs-necessary reserve house. His reason? He owned the pickup, the snowmobile and the car. The house belonged to someone else
 

davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
2,084
0
36
Southern Ontario
They already have that option - and it doesn't seem to work well. Attitudes are still the greatest of stumbling blocks - some of them attitudes like yours. Tell me ... do you read up or down 'cuz you sure like to TALK down.

A friend once pointed out his nice shiney pickup truck, and his well maintained snowmobile, a beautiful classic car ... and his rough-looking, repairs-necessary reserve house. His reason? He owned the pickup, the snowmobile and the car. The house belonged to someone else

Then if I am to believe you, the government is concocting untrue stories about the need for unification? And the First Nations voted overwhelmingly for the Liberals based on their campaign promise to do more for them? And the Chiefs who appear on television speaking of their high hopes for change are spinning fairy tales?
Are you saying that all is fine the way it is and the First Nations want things to stay as they are?
Is all they want is the billions of dollars the government is going to give them without changing anything?
If that is the case then this whole plan is nothing but a sham.

I hope I am wrong, but I get the impression that you are being negative about this thread just to be mean. You seem to be taking this as an opportunity to hurl criticism.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
Believe whatever you choose to believe. A government plan for indigenous people flies in the face of the self government that's been flagged about. First Nations made it pretty clear when they chose to vote for a change it wasn't a vote FOR anyone as much as it was a move to get rid of Harper.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
Government is forging ahead with plans to spend billions to improve conditions for indigenous people. I agree that education is the best way to go. But consider the following:

Some of the communities in which these indigenous people live are so remote from the hubs of civilization that education, delivered in their habitat will be useless. Here's why.
Think about what it would be like to be born and raised in a community so far from the general population that there is no exposure whatsoever to other races and cultures, no theaters to attend, no sports centers, no shopping malls, no decent living conditions, no ready access to health care and no industry by which to work and earn a living. What does a young man or woman raised in such an environment do with his/her life?

I tend to think that their chances may be better in the locations you describe than in the crime and dope infested 'jungles'. Actually these "jungles" today were once like what you describe in the hinterland and now they've returned to being a barren wasteland covered with asphalt and concrete. The trick to develop the remote areas and in most of them there are natural resources (unlike the concrete jungles) that can be mined or harvested. The cultural aspects can be brought in easily enough. I know a lot of the professionals tend to cling to the 'jungles' but that can be changed. There just needs to be a requirement that as soon as doctors, nurses etc. get their papers, service in a remote location for five years is prerequisite. The infrastructure in the existing 'jungle' is already stretched to the max. We lived in a huge country where 95% of the population if concentrated in about 4 or 5 congested locations.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
If I am right you equate education as an avenue to make a living. Part of that is
the objective education is a tool to self fulfillment and it has a prime purpose.
To teach a child to learn how to learn. All the facts and equations are useless
unless one know how to arrive at answers.
Education anywhere is a good thing and worth the effort. Ignorance can be
anywhere and everywhere and thrives it doesn't need to be in a specific place
and neither does education.
In every part of this country there have been problems and downturns and we
didn't and don't ask those living in these places to move unless there is a
serious threat to safety so why should these people be denied an education
because they don't live where we think they should? if that were a serious
thought Newfoundland would be a ghostown
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Leave them in their current locations but make sure they have some of the newer phones so the digital world can come to them.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
Leave them in their current locations but make sure they have some of the newer phones so the digital world can come to them.

Fancy phones are the least of the problem, what's needed is to get some industry happening! Farming is a good one, it feeds people!
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
Government is forging ahead with plans to spend billions to improve conditions for indigenous people. I agree that education is the best way to go. But consider the following:

Some of the communities in which these indigenous people live are so remote from the hubs of civilization that education, delivered in their habitat will be useless. Here's why.
Think about what it would be like to be born and raised in a community so far from the general population that there is no exposure whatsoever to other races and cultures, no theaters to attend, no sports centers, no shopping malls, no decent living conditions, no ready access to health care and no industry by which to work and earn a living. What does a young man or woman raised in such an environment do with his/her life?
If they stay in their community there is nothing for them but to marry a local person and have babies and carry on in the same lifestyle as previous generations. If they leave and go where there might be opportunities of some kind, they will almost certainly face discrimination, abuse or find themselves unqualified for whatever positions are available. They will be like fish out of water.

I don't know how it came about that they were ever isolated in such remote locations. Perhaps many decades ago it was an acceptable existence they eked out there. But times have changed and it is no longer reasonable in today's world to expect people of those remote areas to be able to cope.

The only thing I can imagine that would bring about real positive change would be to shut down those locations and move the entire community to a location close to a hub of high population. Then provide modern, well equipped schools where they can get the kind of education and exposure to modern day lifestyles that is necessary.
School children need to be able to form athletic team and compete with each other. They need the opportunity to form a school band, a drama club, a debating team, take field trips. So much more than academics! What chance will the children of indigenous people have to form and compete in those activities in their present settings?
I don't know how First Nations people reside in Ontario. In BC, reserves are close to towns and cities. They have their own school bus system but they go to the same schools as everyone else and they do the same stuff everyone does. Living on a reserve here is not really any different than living in a different neighbourhood.. Aside from what I see as a sense of entitlement to things like not paying taxes, They don't live any different than anyone else. They have equal access to everything we do. Some bad bad stuff happened to SOME of them. Those are the only ones in this day and age that should receive restitution. Reserves should be abolished and First Nations should integrate and pay what the rest of us pay.

Leave them in their current locations but make sure they have some of the newer phones so the digital world can come to them.
They have as many digital things as we do. You guys talk about First Nation people like they are foreigners. When they go home ( most of them), they step across an invisible line stating they are on reserve land. They get more privileges than we do but beyond that, there simply isn't any difference. I live in a small city of 100,000 ppl. and I see lots of First Nations people daily. They do the same things we do!

Fancy phones are the least of the problem, what's needed is to get some industry happening! Farming is a good one, it feeds people!
You're either a farmer or you're not. Yes, like anyone they could farm but they can do anything they choose to put their minds to. You live in Vernon. Have a lookup of the Penticton Band. No slouches there. They take care of themselves and they do it very well.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
You're either a farmer or you're not. Yes, like anyone they could farm but they can do anything they choose to put their minds to. You live in Vernon. Have a lookup of the Penticton Band. No slouches there. They take care of themselves and they do it very well.

You bet! Not all bands have the advantage of a leader like Clarence Louie. :)
 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,844
93
48
When I see gubmint and plan side by side I know nothing good will come of it.
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
2,197
113
when one looks at the amount of money raped out of indian land and the toxic wastes dumped on them, and then the people who begrudge paying for it, one gets sick in ones mouth a little

thanks for the reddie waltie
enjoying your ill gotten gains at the liquor store this morning?
i'll take my thanks for the greenie from someone else thanks
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
when one looks at the amount of money raped out of indian land and the toxic wastes dumped on them, and then the people who begrudge paying for it, one gets sick in ones mouth a little

thanks for the reddie waltie
enjoying your ill gotten gains at the liquor store this morning?
i'll take my thanks for the greenie from someone else thanks

You're just seeing the negative side of Walter! :)
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,337
113
Vancouver Island
Are you suggesting we forcibly relocate people?

NO. Just quit making the taxpayer sustain them where they are.

If I am right you equate education as an avenue to make a living. Part of that is
the objective education is a tool to self fulfillment and it has a prime purpose.
To teach a child to learn how to learn. All the facts and equations are useless
unless one know how to arrive at answers.
Education anywhere is a good thing and worth the effort. Ignorance can be
anywhere and everywhere and thrives it doesn't need to be in a specific place
and neither does education.
In every part of this country there have been problems and downturns and we
didn't and don't ask those living in these places to move unless there is a
serious threat to safety so why should these people be denied an education
because they don't live where we think they should? if that were a serious
thought Newfoundland would be a ghostown

Oh yes we have. White People are forced to relocate when their one horse town dies. Tjeir option has been relocate or be cut off welfare.