Just Where Is That Neglect Line?

SLM

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Mar 5, 2011
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‘Free-range’ family again at center of debate after police pick up children




Danielle Meitiv and her daughter, Dvora, 6, walk home from school in Silver Spring on Jan. 16. (Sammy Dallal for The Washington Post)




A familiar debate over how much freedom parents should give their children ignited Monday with the news that a Montgomery County couple had, once again, tangled with Child Protective Services for allowing their youngsters to take a walk on their own.
A couple of months after Danielle and Alexander Meitiv were found responsible for “unsubstantiated neglect” for letting Rafi, 10, and Dvora, 6, walk home from a park close to where they live in downtown Silver Spring, they gave the children permission to do it again.
Responding to a call from a citizen, police collected the children and took them to CPS in Montgomery where, 5 1/2 anxious hours later, they were reunited with their parents.
The chain of events has again electrified parents, parent educators and lawmakers, but the debate has shifted from overwhelming support for the Meitivs and outrage at county officials to support mixed with some wariness over which side went too far this time.


The police and CPS for turning the children’s walk home from a park into an hours-long ordeal? Or the Meitivs, who knew CPS would be watching them closely for at least the next five years and chose to let their children walk alone again?
“I feel [county officials] are just going to the extreme with this,” said Patti Cancellier, education director of the Parenting Encouragement Program in Kensington, Md. “The law is not 100 percent clear here. Perhaps they’re trying to make an example of this family. It seems to me they could have gotten better results without scaring the parents and the children half to death.”
But some parents thought it was the Meitivs who went too far.
“What they did was terrible,” said Elizabeth Hernandez, a stay-at-home mother in Alexandria, Va. “They received an alert. That means don’t do it again. And they did it again? Unbelievable.”


In Montgomery, CPS officials have said they are guided in part by a state law that says children younger than 8 must be left with a reliable person who is at least 13. But the law refers only to enclosed spaces such as buildings or cars, and makes no mention of children outside, in a park or on a walk.


Count officials question whether police and CPS had handled the case correctly in failing to notify the Meitivs for two hours that their children were in custody.
“This is a ‘What were they thinking?’ moment,” Marc Elrich (D-At Large), chairman of the Montgomery County Council’s Public Safety Committee, said of the police failure to notify the parents. He also questioned whether this was the best use of police time. As a child, Elrich walked more than a mile on his own to school and farther to a ballfield. “All of our parents would have been in jail,” he said.


Council President George L. Leventhal (D-At Large) noted that he was concerned about the “timeline of events.”
“As the father of two sons, I can relate to the feeling of concern you get when your child doesn’t check in as expected,” he said.
Danielle Meitiv said they were panicked when they didn’t hear anything from the children, who were expected home at 6 p.m., until CPS called at 8. The children were released to their parents at 10:30 pm after the parents signed papers agreeing not to leave the children unattended.
“They were both scared they would never see us again. They were scared they were being taken away from us. I was scared of that, too,” Danielle said in an interview with a Washington Post reporter. “This is surreal. I can’t believe that anyone who claims to care about children would put children through this.”
On Sunday evening, the Meitivs were on their way home from visiting relatives in Ithaca, N.Y., Danielle Meitiv said. The children were getting restless and the weather was beautiful, so the parents decided to drop them off at Ellsworth Park..
The children were familiar with the area, Danielle Meitiv said. The park is next to a library they frequent, she said, and the children have played there many times.


Danielle said the children decided to leave the park shortly before 5 p.m. and were within a few blocks of their Woodside home when they were stopped by police. Rafi told the police they were not lost, she said, but the officer insisted on taking the children home.


According to the Montgomery police report, police received an anonymous call about unattended children and found them in a parking garage on Fenton Street where a “homeless subject” was “eyeing the children.”
The police officer notified CPS at 5:16 pm. At 6:10, he called another CPS employee. At 6:41, the officer was told a CPS decision had yet to be made. So at 7:18, the officer decided to take the children to the CPS offices in Rockville.
One child had to use the bathroom, the report noted, and had to wait through the 20-minute drive to CPS before being allowed to go. The children also were hungry, and the report notes that the officer brought out his personal lunch to share, but took it away after the children said they had food allergies.
CPS and the police’s Special Victims Investigation Division are continuing to investigate, police officials said.
CPS officials would not answer direct questions, but issued a statement Monday afternoon: “Protecting children is the agency’s number one priority. We are required to follow up on all calls to Child Protective Services and will continue to work in the best interest of all children.”
In December, the Meitivs allowed their children to walk home from Woodside Park, another park about a mile from their home. After a two-month investigation, CPS found the Meitivs responsible for “unsubstantiated neglect,” when insufficient or contradictory information keeps investigators from either making a report that neglect is “indicated” or finding it is “ruled out.”
The Meitivs said they are appealing the finding. Currently, CPS said it would keep a file open on the Meitivs for five years.

That event, called by some “The Walk Heard Around the World,” sparked heated debate about child safety, parenting standards and independence that reverberated on social media and in communities around the globe.
Danielle is a climate-science consultant and Alexander is a physicist at the National Institutes of Health. They support “free-range” parenting, with its ideas that children learn to be self-reliant by progressively testing limits, making choices and exploring their surroundings without hovering adults. They’ve said they feel that they are being “bullied” by the government, and those who’ve anonymously called police and CPS on them, to accept a style of parenting they “strongly disagree with.”


Russell Max Simon, who also lives in the Woodside neighborhood, started Empower Kids Maryland to support childhood independence and freedom to roam after the Meitivs’ December run-in with the law. He said that he and other free-range parents started a petition on Change.org to address Maryland’s unattended-children laws, and that people have been contacting his organization and asking to donate to a defense fund for the Meitivs.
“I commend the bravery of the Meitivs for continuing to parent the way they think they should parent,” he said. “Anyone who stands up and says that we’ve gone too far on this issue risks becoming a target. And that’s what’s happened to them.”
On the day they received word of the unsubstantiated-neglect finding, Danielle Meitiv said she would continue to allow her children to play on their own. She appeared to change her mind after the incident Sunday.
“The only people who have threatened or abducted my children were the people in CPS and the police, so I do not believe random people are a threat,” Meitiv told NBC’s Today.com. “But I signed the safety plan and I’m not going to violate it. I’m certainly not going to risk them taking my kids again. We’re going to have to fight this in a different way.

‘Free-range’ family again at center of debate after police pick up children - The Washington Post

When letting your kids out of your sight becomes a crime - The Washington Post

Free-range parenting discussion misses the bigger picture - The Washington Post
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
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The part that baffles me is the previous finding of "unsubstantiated neglect". I can only assume that's a finding of neglect simply because, given that it's 'unsubstantiated'.

I don't necessarily know that I'd make the same choices given the ages of the children involved but then again, I don't know the children involved and the maturity of a ten year old can vary greatly. Also, it doesn't appear as though these parents have made this decision in a reckless manner.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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The part that baffles me is the previous finding of "unsubstantiated neglect". I can only assume that's a finding of neglect simply because, given that it's 'unsubstantiated'.
See, NOW you're getting it. CPS has three findings available to it: neglect, unsubstantiated neglect, and clearance. I assume the meaning of neglect and clearance is obvious. "Unsubstantiated neglect" is the multisyllabic, politically correct version of the old cop's warning, "You may have gotten away with it this time, but I've got my eye on you." It allows CPS to keep the file open on people for whom it cannot show any wrongdoing.

I don't necessarily know that I'd make the same choices given the ages of the children involved but then again, I don't know the children involved and the maturity of a ten year old can vary greatly. Also, it doesn't appear as though these parents have made this decision in a reckless manner.
Interestingly, Montgomery County itself does make the same choice. In Montgomery County, children who live less than a mile away from their schools are not provided with transportation (school buses). So, in MoCo, children walking unattended two blocks from home can be abducted by agents of the state and held for hours without their parents' knowledge or consent, but children who fail to walk a mile to school are truants, and their parents can be charged with neglect.

Because it takes a village.
 

Ludlow

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Seems like I remember when I was a kid my cousins and I roamed all over the neighborhood and then some. Sometimes we'd take off on our bikes and be gone all day. However when I became a parent I was petrified and over protective of my kids. There were simply too many instances of child abductions by freaks. That's one of the reasons I moved from the big city to a safer place for the kids. I guess my attitude is better safe than sorry but the downside to that is the kids feel like they're on a chain. You don't know what to do because the world is such a dangerous place. Anyone who thinks they have the solution is simply full of it.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Seizing children has always been a tactic to punish people the State disapproves of. Here's another one.


State seizes 11-year-old, arrests his mother after he defends medical marijuana during a school presentation


By Radley Balko April 17
On March 24, cannabil oil activist Shona Banda‘s life was flipped upside-down after her son was taken from her by the State of Kansas. The ordeal started when police and counselors at her 11-year-old son’s school conducted a drug education class. Her son, who had previously lived in Colorado for a period of time, disagreed with some of the anti-pot points that were being made by school officials. “My son says different things like my ‘Mom calls it cannabis and not marijuana.’ He let them know how educated he was on the facts,” said Banda in an exclusive interview with BenSwann.com. Banda succesfully treated her own Crohn’s disease with cannabis oil.
After her son spoke out about medical marijuana, police detained him and launched a raid on Shona Banda’s home. “Well, they had that drug education class at school that was just conducted by the counselors… They pulled my son out of school at about 1:40 in the afternoon and interrogated him. Police showed up at my house at 3… I let them know that they weren’t allowed in my home without a warrant… I didn’t believe you could get a warrant off of something a child says in school.” Banda continued, “We waited from 3 o’clock until 6 o’clock. They got a warrant at 6 o’clock at night and executed a warrant into my home. My husband and I are separated, and neither parent was contacted by authorities before [our son] was taken and questioned.”


The police apparently found 2 ounces of cannabis oil in her home. She fears that the state will now attempt to take her son away. She has a custody hearing on Monday.
I contacted the Garden City Police Department to verify some of the details that have been reported online. A spokesman confirmed that officers had searched Banda’s home, though he denied it was a raid. He also said the initial anti-drug program was put on entirely by the school — the police had no involvement. At that event Banda’s son apparently contradicted some of the claims made about marijuana. The school then contacted the child protection agency, which then contacted the police. Officers from the department showed up at Banda’s at home and asked her permission to conduct a search. She refused. They then obtained a warrant and searched her home. The spokesman wouldn’t comment on exactly what was found, except to say that there was “evidence” of drug activity. Banda was then arrested and her son was seized from the home. Currently, there are no criminal charges against her. The spokesman wouldn’t comment on whether charges may be forthcoming. He added that possession of marijuana is illegal in Kansas, without exception.
The absurdity here of course is that a woman could lose her custody of her child for therapeutically using a drug that’s legal for recreational use an hour to the west. It seems safe to say that the amount of the drug she had in her home was an amount consistent with personal use. (If she had been distributing, she’d almost certainly have been charged by now.)
This boy was defending his mother’s use of a drug that helps her deal with an awful condition. Because he stuck up for his mother, the state arrested her and ripped him away from her. Even he is eventually returned to his mother (as he ought to be), the school, the town, and the state of Kansas have already done a lot more damage to this kid than Banda’s use of pot to treat her Crohn’s disease ever could.

State seizes 11-year-old, arrests his mother after he defends medical marijuana during a school presentation - The Washington Post


What do you expect from a state like Kansas, eh, Walter?
 

petros

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From what I understand it is twice as safe to play shinny two blocks over until the streetlights come on than it was when I was a child.

To me, kids are being robbed of their childhoods for no valid reason whatsoever.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Oh I can one-up you on that one.

Kitchener dad arrested at school after daughter draws picture of gun | Toronto Star

Arrested and strip searched because of a drawing his child did.

Of course, these stories all make the headlines and then get juxtaposed with real tragedies where the child protection agencies didn't do enough, like with Jeffery Baldwin.

Death of Jeffrey Baldwin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's hard to blame the people in the social services agencies. Or teachers. I'm sure that at some point "damned if you do, damned if you don't" leads them to think "If I'm only going to be harassed, punished, and have my career harmed by exercising my education and good judgment, I might as well just follow the rules blindly. The pay's the same." It's a management problem, and unfortunately government management rewards CYA above all.
 

petros

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It's hard to blame the people in the social services agencies. Or teachers. I'm sure that at some point "damned if you do, damned if you don't" leads them to think "If I'm only going to be harassed, punished, and have my career harmed by exercising my education and good judgment, I might as well just follow the rules blindly. The pay's the same." It's a management problem, and unfortunately government management rewards CYA above all.

There is some truth to that and when they really do want to make a difference their hands are tied or told they are going beyond the mandate.

On one side you have those that want to take kids away and one the other you have social workers who bring groceries and toiletries paid for out of their own pocket to say there is food and toiletries in the home instead of tearing a family apart when doing an inspection.
 

SLM

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It's hard to blame the people in the social services agencies. Or teachers. I'm sure that at some point "damned if you do, damned if you don't" leads them to think "If I'm only going to be harassed, punished, and have my career harmed by exercising my education and good judgment, I might as well just follow the rules blindly. The pay's the same." It's a management problem, and unfortunately government management rewards CYA above all.

I don't blame them necessarily, the front line workers I mean. I think we all shoulder the blame when it comes to the extremes between what the Kitchener father/family endured, due to over involvement, as juxtaposed with what Jeffery Baldwin had to endure, due to lack of involvement. And I'm not so foolish as to believe that we can eradicate all problems with child protection but we can do a hell of a lot better of a job.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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There is some truth to that and when they really do want to make a difference their hands are tied or told they are going beyond the mandate.

On one side you have those that want to take kids away and one the other you have social workers who bring groceries and toiletries paid for out of their own pocket to say there is food and toiletries in the home instead of tearing a family apart when doing an inspection.
While social workers, like everybody else, bring their ideologies to work with them, I'll bet the former skew young and the latter skew old. That's the burnout factor.
 

Sal

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I was a latch-key kid I was making my own lunches from tiny onward...in the summer I rolled out of bed, grabbed some toast, grabbed my bike, ran across the road, got my girlfriend and away we would go...no one knew where we were for hours...

a few weeks ago a parent gave verbal permission for her kid to walk home, she landed in the school a half hour later screaming at us for negligence and saying her kid wasn't home yet...."where the hell is my kid"...I almost puked...kid had gone into another kid's house...it's a different world and parents respond differently....my mum wouldn't have noticed I was gone for hours and by then I was always home...that's how you knew you had kids....they banged through the door and threw themselves into the chairs proclaiming hunger

I get why social workers are cautious...after the bell goes at school we have only so many hours to verify the location of our students...otherwise there could be legal ramifications and thus there is massive pressure upon us to ensure we contact every number we have, document every call, etc.

I am curious about the person who phoned the cops...what kind of a busy body are they?

otherwise none of this would have gone down...vendetta
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Apparently it was a guy walking his dog. He also followed the kids at a sufficient distance not to scare them, to make sure they were OK.

I got no problem with him. My problem is with the allegedly responsible police and CPS.