what if the Inca had won....

[hunboldt]

http://www.incaempire.org.uk/collapse.PDF
The rash, young, courious but intelligent Emperor of the Inca was captured by Pizzaro, while a much larger expedition against Florida failed when the Natives resorted to guerilla tactics, ambushing the Spanairds in the swamps.

Suppose the Inca had gained the Horses, & Iron working knowledge of the Spaniards. could they have held their empire?

 

[Sal]

It certainly is interesting once one is capable of viewing history less from a might is right perspective and more from a what if perspective.

 

[tay]

What if Ponce De Leon had found the Fountain of Youth?

 

[hunboldt]

It certainly is interesting once one is capable of viewing history less from a might is right perspective and more from a what if perspective.

Teh fall of the Inca was a 'strange victory'.They were a 'highly controlled' society capable of mobilising a lot of people - facing a small band of individualistic, well, ' brigands'. 180 menand 27 horses. Lead by three illiterate brothers , street fighters, wanted on charges back in Panima city.

After the Sapa Inca was captured, you had 80, 000 men milling around without a fall back plan or fall back plan - in a highly developed , carefully planned Inca world.


Ciezo de Leon, a conquistador himself, wrote of the astonishing surprise the Spaniards experienced upon reaching Cuzco. As eyewitnesses to the extravagant and meticulously constructed city of Cuzco, the conquistadors were dumbfounded to find such a testimony of superior metallurgy and finely tuned architecture. Temples, edifices, paved roads, and elaborate gardens all shimmered with gold.
By Ciezo de Leon's own observation the extreme riches and expert stone work of the Inca were beyond belief: "In one of (the) houses, which was the richest, there was the figure of the sun, very large and made of gold, very ingeniously worked, and enriched with many precious stones. They had also a garden, the clods of which were made of pieces of fine gold; and it was artificially sown with golden maize, the stalks, as well as the leaves and cobs, being of that metal. Besides all this, they had more than twenty golden (llamas) with their lambs, and the shepherds with their slings and crooks to watch them, all made of the same metal. There was a great quantity of jars of gold and silver, set with emeralds; vases, pots, and all sorts of utensils, all of fine gold - it seems to me that I have said enough to show what a grand place it was; so I shall not treat further of the silver work of the chaquira (beads), of the plumes of gold and other things, which, if I wrote down, I should not be believed."

http://www.crystalinks.com/inca2.html

Where in Florida it was - 'you WANT MY village? bring it on'!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Florida

 

[Sal]

thanks, an interesting read. Mayans Incas and Aztecs, when I retire I would like to spend time looking into all three.

 

[hunboldt]

It certainly is interesting once one is capable of viewing history less from a might is right perspective and more from a what if perspective.

Good point.

The Inca seemed to have seen the Spaniards as a 'new corperate management' - ok, we get back to doing our jobs for the new bosses....

the Spaniards were like the Hell's Angel's taking over government.

An Anglican vicar once pointed this out to me. He said that us Catholics have a Knights of Columbus org. - without really stopping to think about who Columbus REALLY was - a pretty sadistic slaver...who deserted his wife, left his mistress behind in Spain, and cavorted through the New World..

The same childhood friend reported in a letter that Columbus had provided one of the captured indigenous women to him. He wrote, "While I was in the boat, I captured a very beautiful Carib woman, whom the said Lord Admiral gave to me. When I had taken her to my cabin she was naked - as was their custom. I was filled with a desire to take my pleasure with her and attempted to satisfy my desire. She was unwilling, and so treated me with her nails that I wished I had never begun. But - to cut a long story short - I then took a piece of rope and whipped her soundly, and she let forth such incredible screams that you would not have believed your ears. Eventually we came to such terms, I assure you, that you would have thought that she had been brought up in a school for *****s..

Christopher Columbus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Love hurts..

 

[Sal]

Love hurts..

more for some than for others... we've come a long way baby, oh wait...some have, others not so much

I just remember sucking back all that crap in grade school...discovery of the new world etc...YAY us. Then I had to do a speech in grade 3 or 4 and some book at home...might have been called "golden encyclopedia" or a history book that my dad had, gave me a whole new look at things like small pox put into blankets for one. I remember being confused about feeling "right" when it was clear even to a kid in Catholic school that what they taught us in religion class in the morning didn't quite jive with what they taught us in history class in the afternoon.

I remember asking my dad about it and he and my mum exchanged "the look". I always knew when they gave "the look" that I had exceeded expectations...that also meant keep my thoughts to myself outside of the house...especially at school.

I also remember thinking that Europe looked quite dirty and smelly and "infested" while South America seemed cleaner and less crowded and more colourful...but then they were after all just "savages" so it was okay to do whatever...

kids are good that way if you don't crush it out of them in time

 

[Tonington]

The Spanish force had more than just 180 men, they had allied with natives in the region who had been conquered by the Inca Empire. They had tens of thousands of allies. The Spaniards even had tens of thousands of renegade Incans fighting with them, when their puppet Emperor Manco Inca turned against them.

There is no way the Spanish could have overthrown the Incan empire without the allies they made in the region.

 

[Sal]

seems back then they learned to speak each other's language super fast... motivation to live is a wonderful thing

 

[Tonington]

Yes, the Spanish thrived on guile more than on brute force.

 

[Sal]

Yes, the Spanish thrived on guile more than on brute force.

I can probably respect that more, at least marginally...

 

[L Gilbert]

"What if the Inca had won"
We would all likely have cool, unpronouncable names.

 

[hunboldt]

more for some than for others... we've come a long way baby, oh wait...some have, others not so much

I just remember sucking back all that crap in grade school...discovery of the new world etc...YAY us. Then I had to do a speech in grade 3 or 4 and some book at home...might have been called "golden encyclopedia" or a history book that my dad had, gave me a whole new look at things like small pox put into blankets for one. I remember being confused about feeling "right" when it was clear even to a kid in Catholic school that what they taught us in religion class in the morning didn't quite jive with what they taught us in history class in the afternoon.

I remember asking my dad about it and he and my mum exchanged "the look". I always knew when they gave "the look" that I had exceeded expectations...that also meant keep my thoughts to myself outside of the house...especially at school.

I also remember thinking that Europe looked quite dirty and smelly and "infested" while South America seemed cleaner and less crowded and more colourful...but then they were after all just "savages" so it was okay to do whatever...

kids are good that way if you don't crush it out of them in time

Chris Columbus was 'Whitewashed' back in the day when the Spanish Archives were sealed, first by royal Perogative, then by Order of Franco. After 1976, the spanish archiveswere opened....

Amasing - we have "British Columbia", district of Columbia, Columbus Ohio,, etc.- all named for a guy who got dragged back in Chains in 1500 to Spain- to answer brutality charges under their lax 'Standards'.

History is funny...

 

[gopher]

"What if the Inca had won"
We would all likely have cool, unpronouncable names.

We would begin by calling them by their real name: Tawantinsuyu

 

[hunboldt]

The Spanish force had more than just 180 men, they had allied with natives in the region who had been conquered by the Inca Empire. They had tens of thousands of allies. The Spaniards even had tens of thousands of renegade Incans fighting with them, when their puppet Emperor Manco Inca turned against them.

There is no way the Spanish could have overthrown the Incan empire without the allies they made in the region.

I fully agree . The Inca Empire's ruling strategy was 'religious Stalinism' when the Spaniards invaded.

They ahd evolved a robust workign pre literate economy based on communal responsibility. An interesting alturnative state - cut short.

 

[EagleSmack]

What if Ponce De Leon had found the Fountain of Youth?

What if De Soto found cities of gold?

 

[hunboldt]

What if De Soto found cities of gold?

Hernando DeSoto did. Check your history....thoroughly.

 

[EagleSmack]

Hernando DeSoto did. Check your history....thoroughly.

He found cities of gold? lmao

You can't be serious. Finding some gold in cities was NOT what De Soto was looking for.

Check your history... thoroughly.

 

[hunboldt]

He found cities of gold? lmao

You can't be serious. Finding some gold in cities was NOT what De Soto was looking for.

Check your history... thoroughly.

Hernando De Soto was one of the commanders of the 1532 Expedition which conquored the Inca empire.

You are having a rather slow morning ,

 

[Sal]

I'm just looking for bushels of gold and a mere 1.5 million would keep me happy