Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

no more drugs

#1Feb 19th, 2013

In December 2012, allegedly, Derek Jensen committed a triple murder suicide.

He was described as a loving young man, and his actions totally shocked anyone who had known him for most of his life.

Before his crime, he was just about to start his adult life, and become an EMT.

It was alleged in W5's story (Feb 15, 2013 called "Road to Murder") by the reporter that Derek Jensen had been on Antipsychotics........

A few of the reported adverse reaction to antipsychotics are: loss of reality, delusion, aggression, violence and suicidal and homicidal ideation to name a few.

Is it possible that his actions were the result of an adverse reaction to the legal mind altering prescription drugs he was taking?

Friends of killer Derek Jensen shocked at his actions - Local - The Guardian

watch the report here...

Friends of killer Derek Jensen shocked at his actions - Local - The Guardian

watch the report here ...

Exclusive: tragedy of Alberta murder-suicide revealed by survivor & text messages

no more drugs

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

W5 did a story on this tragedy last week... It was confirmed for the first time by LLoyd Robertson that Derek Jensen was on antipsychotics! go figure!

karrie

#3 Top Rated Post

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

someone with psychosis issues killed people. It's a shocker!!!

no more drugs

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

someone with psychosis issues killed people. It's a shocker!!!

yep Karrie, ...and it says right in the monograph of antipsychotics

may induce psychosis mania suicide homicide ..........etc

Get more discussion results

karrie

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

So which came first. He just decided to start popping anti-psychotics? Or he was having mental health problems first?

And yes, I expect verified sources, not your opinion.

no more drugs

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

So which came first. He just decided to start popping anti-psychotics? Or he was having mental health problems first?

And yes, I expect verified sources, not your opinion.

lol, You can watch W5 on line yourself..the episode is called " Road to Murder" ...

Karrie I think you should be aware that anything on the net should always be verified ..

Its not hard to pick up the phone and call the Health Canada and ask for their madates and to call the College of Pharmacists... and ask their madates and requirments.. call stats canada to see what information is available...

Are you suggesting you believe everything you read? especially on a forum of peoples opinions..

karrie

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

ah, so you're not willing to back any of it up yourself. good to know.

petros

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

someone with psychosis issues killed people. It's a shocker!!!

And if the psychois was induced by the meds?

SWITCHING!!!

Manic/hypomanic switch during acute a... [J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI It's a reality!

Manic/hypomanic switch during acute antidepressant treatment for unipolar depression.

Wada K, Sasaki T, Jitsuiki H, Yoshimura Y, Erabi H, Hada Y, Yama****a M.
Source

Department of Psychiatry, Hiroshima City Hospital, Hiroshima, Japan. kenwada@hbs.ne.jp

Abstract

A significant proportion of patients with unipolar depression clinically develop manic or hypomanic switch during acute antidepressant treatment. Elucidation of its prevalence and predicting factors is of clinical relevance during acute antidepressant treatment of such patients. We retrospectively studied patients with unipolar depression who were admitted to our department during the 6-year period from 1997 to 2002 and who had fewer than 3 previous episodes before admission. The clinical background of the consecutive patients with manic/hypomanic switch (n = 37) who met Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition criteria was compared with that of patients without manic/hypomanic switch (n = 245). The prevalence rate of manic/hypomanic switch was 13.1%. The switch group was composed of 23 men and 14 women, whose average age was 48.8 +/- 12.3 years (range, 26-78 years). Manic/hypomanic switch was most frequently observed between 2 and 3 weeks after the antidepressant was increased to the ongoing dose. Antidepressants were decreased in 13 patients and discontinued in 23. Manic/hypomanic episodes lasted from 1 to 8 weeks. The patients in the switch group included a greater proportion of male subjects and had a higher frequency of family history of bipolar disorders than those in the nonswitch group. The mean doses of antidepressants were not significantly different between these groups. The higher frequency of manic/hypomanic switch occurring around the period when antidepressants begin to show clinical effects and the higher frequency of family history of bipolar disorders might suggest a biological susceptibility to antidepressants in patients of the switch group.

karrie

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

I'm aware, painfully aware, of the side effects of these meds petros.

But, that doesn't make it a foregone conclusion. no more drugs is making a huge claim, I'm asking him to back it up with more than supposition.

History is riddled with men who've seemed great to society, but been controlling murderous bastards with their women. Trying to lay it all at the feet of anti-d's just because it's his singular cause is flawed.

no more drugs

#10

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

I'm aware, painfully aware, of the side effects of these meds petros.

But, that doesn't make it a foregone conclusion. no more drugs is making a huge claim, I'm asking him to back it up with more than supposition.

History is riddled with men who've seemed great to society, but been controlling murderous bastards with their women. Trying to lay it all at the feet of anti-d's just because it's his singular cause is flawed.

Karrie you say you are aware of the side effects yet your writing reflects that you are requiring a link to positive blood test proving it was the drug before you will consider that all these murder suicides (which have the common trend of pschopharmaceuticals) MAY be adverse reactions that are being swept under the carpet...

It would be foolish to expect such scientific proof, however until the many problems of lack of transparency in many different areas are changd, we can never hope to learn how dangerous these drugs really are..

You havent been open to discussing or checking for yourself how these phamaceutical could be getting away concealing the dangers because the set up around them allows them to fly under the radar, while society is being fed that mental illness is the problem..

karrie

#11

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

no more drugs,

the fact is, anti-depressant use has sky rocketed, and these sorts of crimes haven't. So even if they are in someone's blood, it doesn't mean they caused it.

Human history is littered with bodies.

some information from those dastardly psychiatrists about murder rates and antidepressant usage for anyone who's curious. Those who aren't will ignore it I'm sure

Real Psychiatry: Homicide Debate Goes Further Off the Rails

petros

#12

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

I'm aware, painfully aware, of the side effects of these meds petros.

But, that doesn't make it a foregone conclusion. no more drugs is making a huge claim, I'm asking him to back it up with more than supposition.

History is riddled with men who've seemed great to society, but been controlling murderous bastards with their women. Trying to lay it all at the feet of anti-d's just because it's his singular cause is flawed.

The rate of coincidence is just far too freakin' high to deny a link between meds and people deep ending through switching or withdrawl.

Throw in abuse of the SSRIs that aren't shown in clinical studies and things jump. These compounds set off the same serotonin/dopamine neurological chain of events of street drugs like ecstasy, DA, MDMA do with a molecule or two modified and low dosage to keep from being a Schedule I narcotic.

karrie

#13

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

The rate of coincidence is just far too freakin' high to deny a link between meds and people deep ending through switching or withdrawl.

Throw in abuse of the SSRIs that aren't shown in clinical studies and things jump. These compounds set off the same serotonin/dopamine neurological chain of events of street drugs like ecstasy, DA, MDMA do with a molecule or two modified and low dosage to keep from being a Schedule I narcotic.

the rate of coincidence is bound to be high given the high rate of usage.

Have you also correlated the rates of murder suicide with depression?

Have you correlated it with potatoe consumption?

correlation/coincidence are not proof of causation.

Murder rates have dropped while anti-d usage has risen, that makes it hard to blame anti-d's for murder.

Tonington

#14

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

no more drugs,

the fact is, anti-depressant use has sky rocketed, and these sorts of crimes haven't. So even if they are in someone's blood, it doesn't mean they caused it.

Human history is littered with bodies.

some information from those dastardly psychiatrists about murder rates and antidepressant usage for anyone who's curious. Those who aren't will ignore it I'm sure

Real Psychiatry: Homicide Debate Goes Further Off the Rails

But facts and numbers are so misleading Karrie.

This is the same type of nonsense that anti-vaccine folks use.

petros

#15

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

correlation/coincidence are not proof of causation.

Murder rates have dropped while anti-d usage has risen, that makes it hard to blame anti-d's for murder.

All crimes have dropped 20% in 20 years is that because of the antidpressants?

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington

This is the same type of nonsense that anti-vaccine folks use.

Have you mainlined any shellfish lately?

no more drugs

#16

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

no more drugs,

the fact is, anti-depressant use has sky rocketed, and these sorts of crimes haven't. So even if they are in someone's blood, it doesn't mean they caused it.

Human history is littered with bodies.

some information from those dastardly psychiatrists about murder rates and antidepressant usage for anyone who's curious. Those who aren't will ignore it I'm sure

Real Psychiatry: Homicide Debate Goes Further Off the Rails

Petros,

Who says that these type of crimes havent skyrocketed? Suicide and murder suicide has absolutley gone up...

I agree that a blood test would not tell us anything on their own as medical history is vital. Was the person in withdrawal? And he been describing suicidal homicidal ideation did he just have a change in meds, was there an an increase in the dose? vs was he ever on pschopharmaceuticals before...

The truth is unless this type of information starts being collected and assessed, it would be foolish to ignore what we already know are adverse reactions.. just ho0w rare are they? and who is at more risk than someone else? If no one speaks out how will we ever hope to have better knowledge that may be life saving to mall goers and elementary children.... and spouses

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

the rate of coincidence is bound to be high given the high rate of usage.

Have you also correlated the rates of murder suicide with depression?

Have you correlated it with potatoe consumption?

correlation/coincidence are not proof of causation.

Murder rates have dropped while anti-d usage has risen, that makes it hard to blame anti-d's for murder.

Wrong again Karrie....

"Overall, the homicide rate was 1.73 per 100,000 population in 2011, seven per cent higher than in 2010, Statistics Canada said."

Homicide rates in Canada rise 7% - Canada - CBC News

karrie

#17

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Answer me a very important question.....

How did 'suicidal ideation', psychosis, etc., end up on the list of side effects?

no more drugs

#18

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

the rate of coincidence is bound to be high given the high rate of usage.

Have you also correlated the rates of murder suicide with depression?

Have you correlated it with potatoe consumption?

correlation/coincidence are not proof of causation.

Murder rates have dropped while anti-d usage has risen, that makes it hard to blame anti-d's for murder.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karrie,

It seems like you are the one with credibility problems.. and (as well as not provided a link..)
What gives????

"Overall, the homicide rate was 1.73 per 100,000 population in 2011, seven per cent higher than in 2010, Statistics Canada said."
Homicide rates in Canada rise 7% - Canada - CBC News

karrie

#19

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by no more drugs

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Karrie,

It seems like you are the one with credibility problems.. and (as well as not provided a link..)
What gives????

"Overall, the homicide rate was 1.73 per 100,000 population in 2011, seven per cent higher than in 2010, Statistics Canada said."
Homicide rates in Canada rise 7% - Canada - CBC News

I provided a link ages ago about the drop in murder rates over the history of antidepressant usage. (yeah, I know, you ignored it)

One year of rise versus decades of drop is unconvincing

no more drugs

#20

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

I provided a link ages ago about the drop in murder rates over the history of antidepressant usage. (yeah, I know, you ignored it)

One year of rise versus decades of drop is unconvincing

lol Karrie..

excuses excuses...

Bottom line Karrie.... you stand to be corrected ..

Murder in Canada has increased not decreased!

karrie

#21

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by no more drugs

lol Karrie..

excuses excuses...

Bottom line Karrie.... you stand to be corrected ..

Murder in Canada has increased not decreased!

lol, the crux of your assertion isn't that murder increased over a one year period.

The crux of your opinion is that anti-depressants cause murders.

By that logic, one should be able to see, with the high increase in anti-depressant use over the last three decades, a steady climb in te murder rate as well. But it's not there, instead there was a drastic decrease over decades, and only one year where it rose.

no more drugs

#22

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

lol, the crux of your assertion isn't that murder increased over a one year period.

The crux of your opinion is that anti-depressants cause murders.

By that logic, one should be able to see, with the high increase in anti-depressant use over the last three decades, a steady climb in te murder rate as well. But it's not there, instead there was a drastic decrease over decades, and only one year where it rose.

------------------------------------------
Karrie,

What purpose does it serve for you to dictate what a fellow members opinion is?

The reason your credibility is questioned is because you put words in peoples mouths, and have a double standard system.

My opinion is that there may be a link in murder suicides and pschopharmaceuticals, and it has been a tireless journey in trying to find out.

You apparently have not read my posts and continue to misrepresent my writing.

I have shared my experience in noting my opinions in this forum, the journey I have taken to try and find some some answers in determing if there is a link.

If you dont believe there is a link, then you are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. Its OK if you disagree..!

karrie

#23

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

So long as you're on here posting multiple threads on the subject, expect people to disagree and offer the counter argument.

L Gilbert

#24

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing research that suggests a direct link saying there's an actual causal effect, one that says there's an exaggerative effect, or whatever. Otherwise it's just as good to guess that global warming or increased petroleum consumption or increased use of sugar-alternatives is causing rises in murder suicides.

no more drugs

#25

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

Anyway, I'd be interested in seeing research that suggests a direct link saying there's an actual causal effect, one that says there's an exaggerative effect, or whatever. Otherwise it's just as good to guess that global warming or increased petroleum consumption or increased use of sugar-alternatives is causing rises in murder suicides.

Huh?

Im not sure what you are asking .. Lets start here...

Do you know that suicide and homicide ideation agressive and violent behavior (to name a few) are named adverse reaction on antidepressanst and antipsychotics?

L Gilbert

#26

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by no more drugs

Huh?

Im not sure what you are asking .. Lets start here...

Do you know that suicide and homicide ideation agressive and violent behavior (to name a few) are named adverse reaction on antidepressanst and antipsychotics?

I'd like to see the research on it.

Which ones, how many of them, etc. And I am not interested in the ones that are no longer used. I`d also like to see research showing that other factors are not also involved (like was booze ingested with the drugs, any recent traumatic events in their lives, or anything else that may have triggered the results).
Research is all about thoroughness. Not just hitting on an idea, making a conclusion, and then looking for anything to support the conclusion. Real researchers hit upon an idea and then collect facts from hell to breakfast and let the evidence from those facts steer them to a conclusion.
Label warnings are just that. All kinds of possibilities can occur.

karrie

#27

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by no more drugs

Huh?

Im not sure what you are asking .. Lets start here...

Do you know that suicide and homicide ideation agressive and violent behavior (to name a few) are named adverse reaction on antidepressanst and antipsychotics?

I'm confused as to how they got to be named side effects given what you said about the medical community ignoring patient input, autopsy results, etc.

SLM

#28

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

I'd like to see the research on it. Which ones, how many of them, etc. And I am not interested in the ones that are no longer used. I`d also like to see research showing that other factors are not also involved (like was booze ingested with the drugs, any recent traumatic events in their lives, or anything else that may have triggered the results).
Research is all about thoroughness. Not just hitting on an idea, making a conclusion, and then looking for anything to support the conclusion. Real researchers hit upon an idea and then collect facts from hell to breakfast and let the evidence from those facts steer them to a conclusion.
Label warnings are just that. All kinds of possibilities can occur.

I'm just going to bold that and increase the font size. Just because.

taxslave

#29

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

NMD is a one trick pony on a mission. From Gawd. Like all people on a mission facts are secondary to the mission's success. Cerry picking facts to support your conclusion is also an acceptable practice.

karrie

#30

Re: Claresholm, AB Killer - Were Antipsychotics to Blame?

Feb 28th, 2013

When I started Paxil back in 2001, they were NOT listed side effects, and have since been added. How did that happen?

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