POLL: Should a Grade 12 Education Be Mandatory?


View Poll Results: Should a Grade 12 Education Be Mandatory?
Ya 10 40.00%
Nah 15 60.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

petros
+1
#1
Yes? No?

Voice your pros and cons.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to live in a world where you can pay $2.02 for a $1.27 item and get an even 75 cents back without being told it will "screw up the till"?

YES and higher standards to Graduate!!!
 
karrie
+4
#2  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Yes? No?

Voice your pros and cons.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to live in a world where you can pay $2.02 for a $1.27 item and get an even 75 cents back without being told it will "screw up the till"?


A grade twelve education can't force people's brains to work a certain way. All it can do is make them pass tests, but if they don't want to know the curriculum, they won't once they've finished writing said tests.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#3
Often I give .02 extra to round it and after long though and grinding wheels I wind up with an extra $.10 cents back or something. Of course, those are the bright ones that don't hear me say or ignore me saying 'I think I have 2 cents' and just punch in the $20 I have already given them.
 
Machjo
+1
#4
I voted 'nah' because you can't force a person to pass a grade. You can mandate compulsory education for a specified age group. For instance, you could say education is compulsory between the ages of X and Y; beyond that, you can't guarantee that they'll reach grade Z.
 
petros
+2
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

A grade twelve education can't force people's brains to work a certain way. All it can do is make them pass tests, but if they don't want to know the curriculum, they won't once they've finished writing said tests.

A good point but as counter point there are kids who are never taught how to learn. Education can be fine tuned to fit a child's learning style and children (adults too) can be taught how to learn using the best style that suits them.

Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

I voted 'nah' because you can't force a person to pass a grade. You can mandate compulsory education for a specified age group. For instance, you could say education is compulsory between the ages of X and Y; beyond that, you can't guarantee that they'll reach grade Z.

Call it a proficiency level and don't tie a person down who can achieve more faster than another.

If a child can knock off that level by age 14 let them do it. If it takes other's longer so be it.
 
damngrumpy
+1
#6
The reason I voted yes is with the provision that society provide an education system that
is interesting to people. Students by the time they get to grade twelve are young adults and
not children anymore. The reason many leave and we had two grand kids that did was due
to the fact the programs offered were boring as hell . Not a case of poor babies, if you think
how many jobs did you leave before you found one that you liked?
Both these young fellows did get their grade twelve and both are doing extremely well in the
trades. One is a carpenter the other at 26 is an electrician with all his tickets residential,
commercial and industrial.
The whole thing is teachers treat them like children instead of responsible adults. In some
prison systems inmates have to complete grade twelve. this is a good policy
Its not about forcing young people to do something its more about older people inspiring the
young to want to do their best.
 
DaSleeper
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

Often I give .02 extra to round it and after long though and grinding wheels I wind up with an extra $.10 cents back or something. Of course, those are the bright ones that don't hear me say or ignore me saying 'I think I have 2 cents' and just punch in the $20 I have already given them.

Most businesses have smart registers that register the total, the amount paid in and calculates the change that any dummy can operate.
 
petros
+3
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

Most businesses have smart registers that register the total, the amount paid in and calculates the change that any dummy can operate.

ALMOST any dummy.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+2
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

Most businesses have smart registers that register the total, the amount paid in and calculates the change that any dummy can operate.

That is certainly the theory yet appearantly some find a way to not operate it correctly.
 
petros
#10
It's sad when you need to explain how $2.02 rounds it off and how the till still balances. That's Grade 4 at the max.

The 24hr clock seems to baffle people as well. Why?
 
Machjo
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

If a child can knock off that level by age 14 let them do it. If it takes other's longer so be it.

Agreed on that. While I recognize different abilities, we could say that each child should get the best education possible during his compulsory years, and depending on his ability, we teach each the skills they'll need before they reach the age of maturity. If he's really smart, you teach him astrophysics. If not, you teach him whatever he could be good at. And let's not look down on anyone as long as tehy do their best.

But, no point teaching astrophysics to someone who would rather learn something else.
 
JamesBondo
#12
What do you mean by 'mandatory'? Mandatory for what?
 
petros
+2
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondoView Post

What do you mean by 'mandatory'? Mandatory for what?

Exactly!
 
JLM
#14
For brain surgering I would think yes, for digging post holes a guy might get by with grade 11.

How would you propose to do that with someone with the I.Q. of a stump?
 
petros
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Agreed on that. While I recognize different abilities, we could say that each child should get the best education possible during his compulsory years, and depending on his ability, we teach each the skills they'll need before they reach the age of maturity. If he's really smart, you teach him astrophysics. If not, you teach him whatever he could be good at. And let's not look down on anyone as long as tehy do their best.

But, no point teaching astrophysics to someone who would rather learn something else.

Quote:

What the numbers say
For years Scott Murray crunched numbers on illiteracy and administered two major international surveys at Statistics Canada. And what his numbers say is that Canada's situation is particularly shameful when you look at the two worst categories:

  • Nearly 15 per cent of Canadians can't understand the writing on simple medicine labels such as on an Aspirin bottle, a failing that could seriously limit the ability of a parent, for example, to determine the dangers for a child.
  • An additional 27 per cent can't figure out simple information like the warnings on a hazardous materials sheet, the kinds of warning that set out workplace dangers such as risks to the eyes and skin.
In total, 42 per cent of Canadians are semi-illiterate. The proportion is even worse for those in middle age. And even when new immigrants are excluded, the numbers remains pretty much the same.

That's horrid. WTF is wrong?
 
darkbeaver
#16
There are too many factors aligned against any improvement in education results in the western world. The first and foremost being the design of the bankers who have spent the last hundred years getting us this stupid. We will get a lot dumber before any improvements are initiated or noticed. Of course I support higher education initiatives such as direct hands on tactile work place educations preferred the world over from time immemorial. is that the right word? No body can learn while disconnected from nature. That's why they stuffed us in square rooms in the first place, to break us and our bond with nature. The windows were designed to torture inquisitive young minds and turn us into switch trippin rats. Every school should be attached to a functioning farm and iron works and every subject should be fully explored with hands minds and noses. We've paid billions in taxes to have our brains destroyed by synthetic education.
 
taxslave
+2
#17
Our education system is run by people more interested in their pension than in passing on knowlege
 
petros
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

For brain surgering I would think yes, for digging post holes a guy might get by with grade 11.

How would you propose to do that with someone with the I.Q. of a stump?

What have we been doing with stumps all along?

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Our education system is run by people more interested in their pension than in passing on knowlege

Bring back the nuns and miserable war brides.
 
Nuggler
+1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Exactly!


 
Locutus
+3
#20
 
darkbeaver
#21
I voted nah, grade twelve is meaningless, except and perhaps if you're looking for people who will endure torture and mind fornication for twelve straight years without getting up and leaving.
 
karrie
+2
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

A good point but as counter point there are kids who are never taught how to learn. Education can be fine tuned to fit a child's learning style and children (adults too) can be taught how to learn using the best style that suits them.

.

Hmm... a style that suits them. I dunno. The premise of this thread is that someone is intellectually deficient in some way because they can't quickly and concisely manipulate numbers in their head. They may have college under their belt for all you know, but be weak at mathematic manipulations. So, if the premise is that a simple failing in an individual makes you assume no education, how do you set up an education system that lets that person adapt to their weaknesses?
 
Nuggler
+1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

That's horrid. WTF is wrong?


Just what the politicians want.
 
darkbeaver
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

The reason I voted yes is with the provision that society provide an education system that
is interesting to people. Students by the time they get to grade twelve are young adults and
not children anymore. The reason many leave and we had two grand kids that did was due
to the fact the programs offered were boring as hell . Not a case of poor babies, if you think
how many jobs did you leave before you found one that you liked?
Both these young fellows did get their grade twelve and both are doing extremely well in the
trades. One is a carpenter the other at 26 is an electrician with all his tickets residential,
commercial and industrial.
The whole thing is teachers treat them like children instead of responsible adults. In some
prison systems inmates have to complete grade twelve. this is a good policy
Its not about forcing young people to do something its more about older people inspiring the
young to want to do their best.

They sound like intelligent accomplished young people. As soon as the boredom kicks in you have to get up and leave. There is no telling what staying past that has done, but I bet were it studied the results would be shocking.
 
petros
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Hmm... a style that suits them. I dunno. The premise of this thread is that someone is intellectually deficient in some way because they can't quickly and concisely manipulate numbers in their head. They may have college under their belt for all you know, but be weak at mathematic manipulations. So, if the premise is that a simple failing in an individual makes you assume no education, how do you set up an education system that lets that person adapt to their weaknesses?

It goes far beyond counting change.
 
karrie
+3
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It goes far beyond counting change.

Does it? The advent of the internet and the push for higher education in our kids, has sparked a hellfire of intellectual superiority that I think people need to rein in, not shower down upon everyone. Not everyone out there is cut out for formal education. Not everyone is wired to learn in our education system. And even those who make it through might seem 'stupid'.
 
Sal
+1
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

For brain surgering I would think yes, for digging post holes a guy might get by with grade 11.

How would you propose to do that with someone with the I.Q. of a stump?

*falls on the floor laughing*

I was actually wondering that too although I hadn't quite phrased it so well.
 
Cliffy
+3
#28
If we had to educate people until they reached the age of reason, half the population would be in school until they were in their 50s.
 
Sal
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Our education system is run by people more interested in their pension than in passing on knowlege

Not even close to true for what I have seen. At least not in the schools were I work.
 
Cliffy
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by SalView Post

Not even close to true for what I have seen. At least not in the schools were I work.

Take into consideration that the statement comes from a guy who thinks anybody in a union is a freeloader.
 
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