At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

SLM

#1Jan 5th, 2013

And treated accordingly.

Westboro Baptist Church family disowns daughter - YouTube

This is so much more than their right to their beliefs, they are putting their children at risk of physical harm. And they don't even care.

Why doesn't Child and Family Services intervene?

WLDB

#2 Top Rated Post

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Very strange. Normally its the child who disowns the cult in that family. They're probably doing her a favour by kicking her out.

I am surprised that they are allowed to get away with this. I never really thought of the possibility of children being attacked at these protests.

Spade

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

What religions (sects/denominations) aren't cults?

Bill Maher on Mormons - YouTube

SLM

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB

Very strange. Normally its the child who disowns the cult in that family. They're probably doing her a favour by kicking her out.

I am surprised that they are allowed to get away with this. I never really thought of the possibility of children being attacked at these protests.

To be honest with you, it had never really occurred to me either. And I certainly don't think the children are being deliberately targeted but they can certainly be collateral damage.

Spade

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

There very well may be psychological harm done to children by telling them that non-whatevers or the less-than-perfect are roasted forever in lakes of fire. Santa is one thing, but...

SLM

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Spade

What religions (sects/denominations) aren't cults?

Bill Maher on Mormons - YouTube

Without getting into the particulars of the worthiness of religion and churches, I'd say the WBC and probably every other sanctioned church (with the possible exception of Scientology, because they are just weird) are worlds apart.

taxslave

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

I don't discriminate. I think all religions are weird. Most are benign while a few are downright evil.

damngrumpy

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Oh there's that little item in the US Constitution that allows for the right to religion.
This is not really a religion, it not even a cult its a fascist group that is basically
mentally ill. I don't know of a single Baptist who would behave like this period.
I know many. Catholics don't behave like this, nor do Lutherans and a hos to others.
Imagine, people fighting and dying for their freedom to spew hate are ridiculed.
Putting children in harms way and preaching outright hate, including God Hates You

It is time for people to pay attention, there are several groups out there that preach
hate, instead of us constantly suppressing it maybe we should allow unfettered free
speech so we can see how wide spread it really is. Things brushed under the rug
have their own dangers in society that people are sometimes unaware of until its
too late.
I find it difficult to believe some people are this full of hate and irresponsibility in
an educated society.

Spade

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Wildly Hypothetical Scenario #1
Disclaimer: The following scenario does not relate to Catholicism. Even though Catholicism maintains there is a hell, it argues that hell very well may be empty and that decent non Catholics of every description are heaven bound. Had to get that off my chest.
Okay, here goes...

Suppose a devout believer (Xian, Moslem, etc) is head of a large superpower. Suppose that, currently, there are pesky uppity infidels on his defence-policy plate. Further suppose this leader devoutly believes that these faithless and scurrilous foreigners (Yep, even the kiddies) are lake-of-fire bound. To boot, these evil-doers occupy a region that should be settled by believers or their proxies (Gawd willing in these end-times).
If the leader's gawd is going to fry them eternally (If you think this position is absurd, you haven't been paying attention on these forums) he muses, why should he not help the situation along...?
Impossible?

WLDB

#10

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave

I don't discriminate. I think all religions are weird. Most are benign while a few are downright evil.

Agreed. Churches like the WBC make the pick and choosers look good. Look what happens when you follow that stuff literally.

Sal

#11

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB

Very strange. Normally its the child who disowns the cult in that family. They're probably doing her a favour by kicking her out.

I am surprised that they are allowed to get away with this. I never really thought of the possibility of children being attacked at these protests.

I think the sect considered her to be disowning them when she questioned their belief system.

Quote: Originally Posted by Spade

What religions (sects/denominations) aren't cults?

Bill Maher on Mormons - YouTube

What distinguishes a cult from regular religion is the ability to question and to come and go as one pleases.

WLDB

#12

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Spade

Suppose a devout believer (Xian, Moslem, etc) is head of a large superpower. Suppose that, currently, there are pesky uppity infidels on his defence-policy plate. Further suppose this leader devoutly believes that these faithless and scurrilous foreigners (Yep, even the kiddies) are lake-of-fire bound. To boot, these evil-doers occupy a region that should be settled by believers or their proxies (Gawd willing in these end-times).
If the leader's gawd is going to fry them eternally (If you think this position is absurd, you haven't been paying attention on these forums) he muses, why should he not help the situation along...?
Impossible?

Sure, its possible but it hasnt happened yet. Jimmy Carter is and was a fundamentalist Christian and didnt start any wars. Pierre Trudeau was a devout Catholic most of his life yet decriminalized homosexuality and abortion. JFK and his family were pretty hardcore Catholics as well but somehow managed to separate it from his politics. Now either these people lied about their beliefs or were able to compartmentalize pretty well.

gerryh

#13

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

and what difference would it make if it was?

WLDB

#14

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Sal

What distinguishes a cult from regular religion is the ability to question and to come and go as one pleases.

Thats the first good answer ive heard on this question. Amazing seeing as it seems so simple. Though nearly every religion has members who have similar stories to that told in the OP. Its fairly common to see stories of families disowning a child or vice versa for coming out as homosexual or choosing a different religion or no religion at all. Granted it doesnt happen as much as it used to but those stories still come up from time to time in mainstream religions.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh

and what difference would it make if it was?

Do some damage to their PR, but I doubt the WBC's PR could get any worse.

Sal

#15

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

If it can be proven to be a cult, I believe the children could then be removed.

SLM

#16

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Sal

If it can be proven to be a cult, I believe the children could then be removed.

That's what I was thinking.

Sal

#17

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

yeah but I can't find anything to back that claim and now I am surprised.

taxslave

#18

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB

Sure, its possible but it hasnt happened yet. Jimmy Carter is and was a fundamentalist Christian and didnt start any wars. Pierre Trudeau was a devout Catholic most of his life yet decriminalized homosexuality and abortion. JFK and his family were pretty hardcore Catholics as well but somehow managed to separate it from his politics. Now either these people lied about their beliefs or were able to compartmentalize pretty well.

They are politicians. They will say/do whatever they think will get them re-elected. None of the Kennedy clan took the thou shalt nots very seriously. Especially the adultery bit.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sal

If it can be proven to be a cult, I believe the children could then be removed.

Still have the problem of defining a cult. Is it the church down the street from your own?

Spade

#19

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB

Sure, its possible but it hasnt happened yet. Jimmy Carter is and was a fundamentalist Christian and didnt start any wars. Pierre Trudeau was a devout Catholic most of his life yet decriminalized homosexuality and abortion. JFK and his family were pretty hardcore Catholics as well but somehow managed to separate it from his politics. Now either these people lied about their beliefs or were able to compartmentalize pretty well.

Then we should only elect leaders who ignore/compromise their faith.

Sal

#20

Re: At What Point Does This Get Labelled A Cult?

Jan 5th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave

Still have the problem of defining a cult. Is it the church down the street from your own?

It could be the church down the street or it could even be a group within the church down the street if the following elements are present;
Three ideas seem essential to the concept of a cult.

1. Thinking in terms of us versus them with total alienation from "them."
2. The intense, though often subtle, indoctrination techniques used to recruit and hold members.
3. The charismatic cult leader. Cultism usually involves some sort of belief that outside the cult all is evil and threatening; inside the cult is the special path to salvation through the cult leader and his teachings.

Quote: Originally Posted by Spade

Then we should only elect leaders who ignore/compromise their faith.

More like electing leaders capable of separating church and state. Then we are good to go.

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