The Obama Cliff


B00Mer
+1
#1
Talks still going on at the White House and still no resolution...

Wall Street extends losses, Dow slides 1 percent | Reuters

Should the USA go over the cliff and raise taxes to pay the debt??

Or... not sure what other choice their is.. ??
 
damngrumpy
#2
This will not be Obama's cliff it will be the Republicans Abyss. The Republicans
want to keep the tax break for the wealthiest people at the expense of everyone
else.
Truth is taxes will have to rise for all in order to pay the debt down a debt that
was created by a fantasy, that no taxes need to rise and infrastructure can be
ignored for decades. Not true on any account. Not only will the rich have to pay
everyone will have to pay for the mythical free ride the nation went on.

Program cuts need to be made in some areas like the military but not in education,
Pensions and Health care are in the public interest as is infrastructure and taxes
must reflect the level of service people want in some cases and to pay what people
paid for in others. I hear the statement entitlements well they are entitlements.
Years ago many paid for future service and the governments used the money for
other things and sometimes gave tax benefits to the wealthy knowing they had spent
the money they collected for programs on other things. Now its time to cough up
the benefits paid for that is not entitlement that is payment for services prepaid for.
Whining will not solve a single problem it is a fact that increases are required.
The nice part about this is the congress run by the Republicans will take the hit
warranted or not, they have painted themselves into a corner where they are damned
if they do and damned if they don't as it were. All this nonsense of signing a pledge
not to raise taxes, that too is fantasy thinking.
Unfortunately not all the blame should go to the Republicans, there is plenty to go round,
but they saddled up to ride with the Tea Party and the Moral Majority before that and now
believing in simple solutions is going to cloud the issue.
Personally I think a healthy democratic society needs a balance of right and left to
encourage debate and cooperation. What we have is polarization and disrespect for
opposite opinions.
Its what happens when simple solutions are the order of the day and that has been the
order of American life for two decades starting with Ronnie Reagan and continuing
through every administration since and today is time to pay the piper day,.
 
captain morgan
+1
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by B00MerView Post

Talks still going on at the White House and still no resolution...

Wall Street extends losses, Dow slides 1 percent | Reuters

Should the USA go over the cliff and raise taxes to pay the debt??

Or... not sure what other choice their is.. ??

I think it's fair to say that Obama will go down in the history books as the President that lead the nation through 2 straight terms of recession, damaged the economy to the tune that it will take many years to reverse his policies and mortgaged the future of many generations yet to come.
 
damngrumpy
#4
Captain Morgan this is the generation that will learn there is no free lunch
and the people of America are not the only ones on the planet. As for the
Obama Administration, it has not held true to all of its promises however it
is not the architect of all the damage inflicted on the American Economy
that started decades ago and successive administrations continued with
policies that didn't help. No country can keep pace when they don't pay as
they go believing taxes should never rise to pay their way.
The Republican fiscal conservatives have some good ideas but the social
conservatives and those who are under the yoke of the Tea party are going
to take the hit for this.
 
captain morgan
+1
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Captain Morgan this is the generation that will learn there is no free lunch
and the people of America are not the only ones on the planet. As for the
Obama Administration, it has not held true to all of its promises however it
is not the architect of all the damage inflicted on the American Economy
that started decades ago and successive administrations continued with
policies that didn't help. No country can keep pace when they don't pay as
they go believing taxes should never rise to pay their way.
The Republican fiscal conservatives have some good ideas but the social
conservatives and those who are under the yoke of the Tea party are going
to take the hit for this.

The Democrats policy thus far has accomplished nothing more than throwing gasoline onto an already roaring fire. They are into their 5th year; the time for blaming others has long past. In terms of his 'kept' promises, the only one that comes to mind is Obamacare.

As for 'the generation that will learn there is no free lunch'... They sure won't be learning that lesson from the Obama administration

The Original OBAMA PHONE - Remix - G-Code - YouTube


 
L Gilbert
+1
#6
I don't think reversing his policies is the best plan. Perhaps reversing some, but rearranging others. After all, the USA wasn't in too great a shape before the meltdown either.
 
captain morgan
+1
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

I don't think reversing his policies is the best plan. Perhaps reversing some, but rearranging others. After all, the USA wasn't in too great a shape before the meltdown either.


No question that Obama inherited a mess, but that was never any secret... His first campaign sought to change the course that the US was/is on, and that didn't happen (as if it really could have in a practical sense). But nonetheless, the promises were made and he was elected on those statements.

What I see now (and in the 2nd half of his first term), are actions that take a large risk in hampering their economy further.... All of this grandstanding about 'the wealthy paying their share' is nothing more than playing politics... Even with the proposed tax hikes on wealthy Americans and corps, the total addition to the coffers won't represent a whole number in terms of the US's operating deficit.

On the other hand, the risk is that some of these companies move (Haliburton), work to shelter income (Apple, Nike, Google) or downsize operations (thousands of medium and small business' in response to Obamacare costs)... These actions will have a deleterious effect on employment, but more importantly, on the basic incomes of those in the low and medium income sectors.

So I ask; who has really won, when one weighs all of the risks against the potential rewards?
 
Cliffy
+2
#8  Top Rated Post
I wish people would stop using my name in vain. I'm not standing in anybody's way, including Obama, so they can't fall over me.

The economy will crash because it has nothing shoring it up. Fiat currency is a bubble without substance. It is a fabrication of computers. Sooner or later, Momma is going to put a stop to all this rape and pillage in the name of progress. There is no progress. We are still ignorant cave dwellers killing each other, killing those who stand in the way of our greed and malice. Sophisticated weapons do not mean anything other than our weapons have evolved beyond our primitive mental capacities. We still crap and piss in our drinking water and saturate our air with our pollution... but it is not our fault that the Earth is choking in our stupidity! No, we have no effect on weather changes. Gawd, a lot of people must love the smell of their own excrement.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

No question that Obama inherited a mess, but that was never any secret... His first campaign sought to change the course that the US was/is on, and that didn't happen (as if it really could have in a practical sense). But nonetheless, the promises were made and he was elected on those statements.

What I see now (and in the 2nd half of his first term), are actions that take a large risk in hampering their economy further.... All of this grandstanding about 'the wealthy paying their share' is nothing more than playing politics... Even with the proposed tax hikes on wealthy Americans and corps, the total addition to the coffers won't represent a whole number in terms of the US's operating deficit.

On the other hand, the risk is that some of these companies move (Haliburton), work to shelter income (Apple, Nike, Google) or downsize operations (thousands of medium and small business' in response to Obamacare costs)... These actions will have a deleterious effect on employment, but more importantly, on the basic incomes of those in the low and medium income sectors.

So I ask; who has really won, when one weighs all of the risks against the potential rewards?

Those companies and individuals who prepared well.
 
Goober
+2
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

No question that Obama inherited a mess, but that was never any secret... His first campaign sought to change the course that the US was/is on, and that didn't happen (as if it really could have in a practical sense). But nonetheless, the promises were made and he was elected on those statements.

What I see now (and in the 2nd half of his first term), are actions that take a large risk in hampering their economy further.... All of this grandstanding about 'the wealthy paying their share' is nothing more than playing politics... Even with the proposed tax hikes on wealthy Americans and corps, the total addition to the coffers won't represent a whole number in terms of the US's operating deficit.

On the other hand, the risk is that some of these companies move (Haliburton), work to shelter income (Apple, Nike, Google) or downsize operations (thousands of medium and small business' in response to Obamacare costs)... These actions will have a deleterious effect on employment, but more importantly, on the basic incomes of those in the low and medium income sectors.

So I ask; who has really won, when one weighs all of the risks against the potential rewards?

The US could never afford the Bush tax cuts- same with the drug plan that Bush brought in - both should be on the table- Tax increases to spending cuts.
 
relic
+1
#11
Check some history,americans don't learn anythimg.
 
Goober
+1
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by relicView Post

Check some history,americans don't learn anythimg.

Link please.
 
B00Mer
+2
#13


"Are You Smarter Than A 5th Grader" - Voted for Obama.. more money than brains.
Last edited by B00Mer; Dec 28th, 2012 at 09:33 PM..
 
captain morgan
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

The US could never afford the Bush tax cuts- same with the drug plan that Bush brought in - both should be on the table- Tax increases to spending cuts.


The US, like most nations today, don't have an income problem - they have a spending problem. Couple this with the reality that there is very large debt and high unemployment, does it really make sense to increase the operating costs of businesses whom the nation is relying upon to hire new employees?

You are already seeing a move by small and medium sized businesses to alter their employee populations and down grade full timers to part time positions in order to avoid Obamacare... What effect do you think that this will have on the average worker (considering that it is now law that they must have health insurance)?.. Their disposable income will decline twice - once if they get bumped into a part time position and again in having to pay for mandatory healthcare.

As far as Bush is concerned, one can make the argument for or against those cuts, but ultimately, those decisions were made in a very different time relative to the economic conditions in the USA. No more blaming Bush for the current administrations woes.. Time to ante-up and take the bull by the horns and move the penny forward
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by relicView Post

Check some history,americans don't learn anythimg.

They don't call you relic for nothing.
 

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