Should dolphins and whales have the right to life, liberty and wellbeing?


View Poll Results: Should cetaceans [marine mammals] have the right to life, liberty and wellbeing
Yes 8 34.78%
No 14 60.87%
Unsure 1 4.35%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

skookumchuck
#31
"We affirm that all cetaceans [marine mammals including dolphins, whales and porpoises] as persons have the right to life, liberty and wellbeing."

Just who the hell do they think they are? Sounds PETA ish to me.
I never advocate either cruelty or harrassing wildlife but NO bunch of fame seeking disingenuous nanny staters is going to force their bull**** down my throat!
The regulations we have in place to protect Dolphins and Whales/Orcas are more than sufficient.
 
bill barilko
+1
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

We are talking about beings that are very close to the top of the food chain. Porposes or dolphins seem to enjoy interacting with humans.

So do Dogs but people eat Dog daily-this is life!

Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

I don't think a dolphin has ever harmed a human but the Japanese kill hundreds every year when they get snarled in fishing nets. Killer whales have attacked humans the odd time here and there but usually when the whales are in captive pools that are too small.

We kill thousands of cuddly Rabbits per year by logging their habitat-should we lose sleep over it?

Your precious 'Dolphins' have killed a number of humans-did you not see the post upthread about Orcinus Orca?

Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

There shouldn't be any hunting of these animals.

Says who?
 
Goober
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Why? Are you personally afraid of something?

If some dolphins are just as intelligent as some humans, then why shouldn't some dolphins have the same protection as us. I'm talking about the right not to be exploited by humans... ie held in captivity or hunted as food and habitat protection. Possibly even a right to support and welfare.

I'd like to see conclusive proof of a high intelligence first before awarding human rights to non-humans.

How about we agree they have a better moral compass and character then yourself. Pick one and we look after that one. You go swimming. Fair to me. Make the deal?
 
damngrumpy
#34
A couple of questions of note here, Colpy you are right it would be a dangerous road to go down
Goober, if we were to attach intelligence to the aspect of human rights there are those on this
forum that should immediately be concerned from time to time, (yes I jest). The problem is we
would then have to do a study to determine which animals and maybe even plants were smart
enough to have rights. That would mean they would be off limits for eating I suppose because they
would have the right to determine whether or not they would want to be part of the food chain.
dolphins and whales are intelligent creatures that is not the point, they are subject to the will of
humans. Personally I don't think we should be whale hunting and I don't know any dolphins so
I don't care one way or another.
 
earth_as_one
#35
Putting a human in a confined space and forcing them to do stupid tricks on command indefinitely would probably lead to violence. I'm surprised more captive whales and dolphins haven't killed people. Perhaps they have more compassion for us, than we do for them.
 
Johnnny
+1
#36
People just need to have more respect for the life around them.... IPlain and simple
 
taxslave
+1
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Intelligence is NOT the rule by which the value of a life should be judged.


In fact, that is a very dangerous road to start down

If that were the case dippers lives would not have much value.

Quote: Originally Posted by earth_as_oneView Post

Putting a human in a confined space and forcing them to do stupid tricks on command indefinitely would probably lead to violence. I'm surprised more captive whales and dolphins haven't killed people. Perhaps they have more compassion for us, than we do for them.

Ever been in a government office?
 
petros
#38
I wonder if I can fit a dophin in the smoker?
 
Walter
+1
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

What? Eating?

You really aren't that bright.

You don't own a silver Toyota Tacoma, with a little water damage do you?

You should post the picture.
 
gopher
+1
#40
I wouldn't mind giving them those rights so long as Gophers enjoy them as well.
 
Colpy
+2
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by gopherView Post

I wouldn't mind giving them those rights so long as Gophers enjoy them as well.

Just found a new load for my .223 Remington.....53 grain V-Max at 3300 fps, shoots into 1/2 inch at 100 yards, and I'm thrilled.

I doubt the local coyotes and gophers will be, however.

 
Cliffy
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Just found a new load for my .223 Remington.....53 grain V-Max at 3300 fps, shoots into 1/2 inch at 100 yards, and I'm thrilled.

I doubt the local coyotes and gophers will be, however.

You are a cold hearted bastard, Colpy but beware of the Trickster Coyote.

Coyote

by Tamara Kazakova
The Coyote mythlore is one of the most popular among the Native American. Coyote is a ubiquitous being and can be categorized in many types. In creation myths, Coyote appears as the Creator himself; but he may at the same time be the messenger, the culture hero, the trickster, the fool. He has also the ability of the transformer: in some stories he is a handsome young man; in others he is an animal; yet others present him as just a power, a sacred one. According to Crow (and other Plains) tradition, Old Man Coyote (external - login to view) impersonates the Creator, "Old Man Coyote took up a handful of mud and out of it made people" . His creative power is also spread onto words, "Old Man Coyote named buffalo, deer, elk, antelopes, and bear. And all these came into being" . In such myths Coyote-Creator is never mentioned as an animal, more, he can meet his animal counterpart, the coyote: they address each other as "elder brother" and "younger brother", and walk and talk together . According to A. Hultkranz, the impersonation of Coyote as Creator is a result of a taboo, a mythic substitute to the religious notion of the Great Spirit whose name was too dangerous and/or sacred to use apart from a special ceremony .
In Chelan myths, Coyote belongs to the animal people but he is at the same time "a power just like the Creator, the head of all the creatures" . Yet his being 'just like the Creator' does not really mean being 'the Creator': it is not seldom that Coyote-Just-Like-Creator is subject to the Creator, Great Chief Above, who can punish him, send him away, take powers away from him, etc. In the Pacific Northwest tradition, Coyote is mostly mentioned as a messenger, or minor power, "Coyote was sent to the camp of the chief of the Cold Wind tribe to deliver a challenge; Coyote traveled around to tell all the people in both tribes about the contest." As such, Coyote "was cruelly treated, and his work was never done."
As the culture hero, Coyote appears in various mythic traditions. His major heroic attributes are transformation, traveling, high deeds, power. He is engaged in changing the ways of rivers, standing of mountains, creating new landscapes and getting sacred things for people. Of mention is the tradition of Coyote fighting against monsters. According to Wasco tradition, Coyote was the hero to fight and kill Thunderbird, the killer of people, but he could do that not because of his personal power, but due to the help of the Spirit Chief; Coyote was trying his best, he was fighting hard, and he had to have fasted ten days before the fight, so advised by Spirit Chief . In many Wasco myths, Coyote rivals the Raven (Crow) about the same ordeal: in some stories, Multnomah Falls came to be by Coyote's efforts; in others, it is done by Raven.
More often than not Coyote is a trickster, but he is always different. In some stories, he is a noble trickster, "Coyote takes water from the Frog people... because it is not right that one people have all the water." In others, he is mean, "Coyote determined to bring harm to Duck. He took Duck's wife and children, whom he treated badly."
 
earth_as_one
+1
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

FYI-The largest Dolphin of all is Orcinus Orca aka The Killer Whale or more accurately the Killer of Whales.

These beasts do kill humans (external - login to view) and gang rape is common in packs of Cetaceans.

There are few recorded cases of wild orcas threatening humans; none of these have been fatal.

We can't judge another species mating behavior with human morality. Right whales can't mate unless two males cooperate. Their sex is always a threesome and for all we know the females like it that way. However we can recognize their ability to reason and feel.
Last edited by earth_as_one; Feb 22nd, 2012 at 08:12 PM..
 
EagleSmack
+2
#44
Are whales smart enough to know what a Japanese Whaling vessel looks like? Maybe we can teach them ship identification. Maybe we can teach them that when they are being chased by one of these vessels to take a deep breath and stay under water and change direction.
 
bill barilko
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Are whales smart enough to know what a Japanese Whaling vessel looks like? Maybe we can teach them ship identification. Maybe we can teach them that when they are being chased by one of these vessels to take a deep breath and stay under water and change direction.

Cetaceans aren't any smarter than your average Labrador Retriever.

Twice in two years we've had Humpback Whales breach right in front of our boat off WCVI-while we were running over 20 mph.

If we had hit the Whale (they can be up to 40 tonnes) it would have been lights out for us-skiff wrecked and humans dead and alive floating everywhere.

It would also have grievously injured the Whales but they aren't smart enough to be afraid of boats-which means they aren't very smart at all.

I'm surprised none of you bleeding hearts has brought up that bullsh!t film The Cove (external - login to view)

I won tickets when it played here and what a load of confused lies and half truths.

Not one of the organisers/fundraisers (there are always fundraisers @ those events you know) could tell me why the dumbcluck Cetaceans return to the exact same spot year after year after year since who knows when to be killed en masse.

I mean how smart is an animal like that, eh?
 
EagleSmack
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

Cetaceans aren't any smarter than your average Labrador Retriever.

That can't be!


Quote:

Not one of the organisers/fundraisers (there are always fundraisers @ those events you know) could tell me why the dumbcluck Cetaceans return to the exact same spot year after year after year since who knows when to be killed en masse.

Maybe we can teach them to @%&$ somewhere else?
 
gopher
+1
#47
Quote:

I doubt the local coyotes and gophers will be, however.


... just remember - gophers can be very wicked ankle biters. Don't say I didn't warn ya!
 
dumpthemonarchy
#48
Our taboo on eating whales is quite strong, when form GG Michaelle Jean went to the Arctic, she ate seal meat, not whale meat. Had she at whale meat, her politcal career would have been dead meat. You can't eat Flipper or his cousins in these parts.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by WalterView Post

Yes, get over it.

Nope. It's sheer stupidity to screw the planet up over a bunch of paper. You get over that.

Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

We already give special status to dolphins and whales by not eating them. No one can say, "I had dolphin sushi for dinner last night."

Where have you been? Denmark, Japan, Norway, and Iceland actively hunt cetaceans.
never mind the question; I don't want to know where you've been.

Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

That's all well and good, but the right to life, liberty, and well being? They're wild animals, you can't incarcerate nature for killing or maiming...sure we can make laws to protect species and their habitats, and to punish illegal hunting, but that's about as far as we should go.

Yep. Any species should have the right to exist. As far as giving other species human rights goes, that's a bit screwy.
 
CDNBear
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Our taboo on eating whales is quite strong, when form GG Michaelle Jean went to the Arctic, she ate seal meat, not whale meat. Had she at whale meat, her politcal career would have been dead meat. You can't eat Flipper or his cousins in these parts.

I'm not one for societal taboos on food. I think it's silly.

The anthropomorphizing of animals is even more idiotic.
 
L Gilbert
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Are whales smart enough to know what a Japanese Whaling vessel looks like? Maybe we can teach them ship identification. Maybe we can teach them that when they are being chased by one of these vessels to take a deep breath and stay under water and change direction.

I doubt they can tell the diff between a whaling ship and a tanker or a passenger liner. At least not till it's too late.
Starting to sound like MHz with all his "ifs" and "maybes". lol
 
karrie
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by #juanView Post

We are talking about beings that are very close to the top of the food chain. Porposes or dolphins seem to enjoy interacting with
humans. I don't think a dolphin has ever harmed a human but the Japanese kill hundreds every year when they get snarled in fishing nets.
Killer whales have attacked humans the odd time here and there but usually when the whales are in captive pools that are too small.

There shouldn't be any hunting of these animals.

I think anyone who thinks dolphins, whales, etc. are exceptionally intelligent, has never spent enough time with cows, rats, coyotes, sheep, or any other host of animal that we as humans see no problem snuffing out for food.

I agree with stopping the hunting for commercial use of any animal that we can't farm or adequately sustain, but I think the idea that one mammal is more self aware or intelligent is unprovable and frankly, a bit ridiculous. Just because a dolphin can communicate better doesn't make it more aware than the pig rolling in slop that no one took the time to coddle and teach tricks to.
 
L Gilbert
#53
Like Colpy said, intelligence is not the best way by which to judge the value of life. And as I said, trees and grasses are important, too, but no-one would call them intelligent.
 
MHz
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Starting to sound like MHz with all his "ifs" and "maybes". lol

Ah, you must be referring to the ' If/then Syndrome' (I find it hard to believe that you didn't get the sequence right)., you know that when you are actually allowed to go through a mental process where you say if somebody is lying to me then I better kick their *** our of the room (more or less but I'm sure you get the idea).
I admit having the syndrome is radically different in that your theme of ' they lie to me for my own good ' is radical because you have to suspend the entire thought process. Once stopped it is had to restart, Bout as much chance as rehabbing a ped.

Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Like Colpy said, intelligence is not the best way by which to judge the value of life. And as I said, trees and grasses are important, too, but no-one would call them intelligent.

They aren't killing their own, nor do any beasts of the field, of fish so the must be one step higher one the evolution chain, oh wait they were around before man, guess we will outgrow this phase in about 100M years. A light at the end of a tunnel, don't that just make your day so much brighter???
 
karrie
+1
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by bill barilkoView Post

It would also have grievously injured the Whales but they aren't smart enough to be afraid of boats

By that logic, if you bump into something in your environment and injure yourself, you disqualify yourself of intelligence. Which would mean humanity is out of the running. We bump into stuff and hurt ourselves all the damn time. Go sit in an x-ray clinic or an ER and ask people what landed them there.
 
MHz
#56
That would be so sweet to see a group of whales sink a hunter/killer boat and them tow the life-rafts to shore, lol
 
L Gilbert
+1
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Ah, you must be referring to the ' If/then Syndrome' (I find it hard to believe that you didn't get the sequence right)., you know that when you are actually allowed to go through a mental process where you say if somebody is lying to me then I better kick their *** our of the room (more or less but I'm sure you get the idea).
I admit having the syndrome is radically different in that your theme of ' they lie to me for my own good ' is radical because you have to suspend the entire thought process. Once stopped it is had to restart, Bout as much chance as rehabbing a ped.

lol When you aren't "if-ing" and "maybe-ing" you're posting ludicrous suppositions about people.

Quote:

They aren't killing their own, nor do any beasts of the field, of fish so the must be one step higher one the evolution chain, oh wait they were around before man, guess we will outgrow this phase in about 100M years. A light at the end of a tunnel, don't that just make your day so much brighter???

What are you smoking?
 
MHz
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

you're posting ludicrous suppositions about people.

Okay I won't immitate you anymore.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Okay I won't immitate you anymore.

Fine by me. You aren't any good at it anyway.
 
MHz
#60
Thank God it was a once in a life-time performance. 5 long showers and I still feel don't feel clean.
 

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