How Doctors Die


SLM
#1
An opinion piece written by a physician that I found interesting and certainly thought provoking.

How Doctors Die « Zócalo Public Square (external - login to view)
 
TenPenny
+3
#2  Top Rated Post
I like this quote:
Quote:

To administer medical care that makes people suffer is anguishing. Physicians are trained to gather information without revealing any of their own feelings, but in private, among fellow doctors, they’ll vent. “How can anyone do that to their family members?” they’ll ask.

Sums it up nicely. Just because we can do something, should we do it?
 
SLM
#3
This is the part that got me thinking,

Quote:

They want to be sure, when the time comes, that no heroic measures will happen—that they will never experience, during their last moments on earth, someone breaking their ribs in an attempt to resuscitate them with CPR (that’s what happens if CPR is done right).

simply because I'd never really contemplated before what the experience might be like. And I have to ask myself, do I want this to be my last memory?

It made me think of my grandmother who, in her last year of life, suffered a stroke and a weakening heart. Her lungs were constantly filling with fluids, it was distressful if not outright painful for her. On each trip to the hospital to deal with her breathing difficulties, she told everyone that there were to be no extraordinary/life saving measures. And there weren't. An hour after my son and I visited her in hospital, she passed. I'm grateful she didn't have to suffer through CPR, which in her state would have been nothing short of a violent assault upon her frail body.
 
JLM
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

This is the part that got me thinking,



simply because I'd never really contemplated before what the experience might be like. And I have to ask myself, do I want this to be my last memory?

It made me think of my grandmother who, in her last year of life, suffered a stroke and a weakening heart. Her lungs were constantly filling with fluids, it was distressful if not outright painful for her. On each trip to the hospital to deal with her breathing difficulties, she told everyone that there were to be no extraordinary/life saving measures. And there weren't. An hour after my son and I visited her in hospital, she passed. I'm grateful she didn't have to suffer through CPR, which in her state would have been nothing short of a violent assault upon her frail body.

I can relate to that, minutes before my Mum died at age 85 from heart problems she said to the nurse, "I want you to promise me that nothing will be done in an attempt to extend my life", and then she died peacefully. By the same token I'm sure I wouldn't let go that easily, I sort of believe that while there is (reasonable) life there is hope.
 
SLM
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I can relate to that, minutes before my Mum died at age 85 from heart problems she said to the nurse, "I want you to promise me that nothing will be done in an attempt to extend my life", and then she died peacefully. By the same token I'm sure I wouldn't let go that easily, I sort of believe that while there is (reasonable) life there is hope.

I guess it all comes down to that almost unanswerable question, "what is reasonable?". I guess I've always thought that when I was truly done, I'd know. But perhaps that's a romantic notion.
 
JLM
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

I guess it all comes down to that almost unanswerable question, "what is reasonable?". I guess I've always thought that when I was truly done, I'd know. But perhaps that's a romantic notion.

To me it would mean regaining a level of health that would allow me to continue an enjoyable level of life without being a burden on others. If it's help lifting heavy objects OK, if it's help with body functions..............NO WAY!
 
SLM
+1
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

To me it would mean regaining a level of health that would allow me to continue an enjoyable level of life without being a burden on others. If it's help lifting heavy objects OK, if it's help with body functions..............NO WAY!

There's a hell of a lot of life in between heavy objects and assisted bodily functions. Anyway, it's not just about extraordinary measures, it's also about choices made when dealing with life threatening illnesses too. Easy to say to 'choose life' but sometimes the quality of life suffers depending upon the methods of treatment.

It's just a lot to think about. It's not an easy question, and to me, there are no easy answers.
 
JLM
+1
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

There's a hell of a lot of life in between heavy objects and assisted bodily functions. Anyway, it's not just about extraordinary measures, it's also about choices made when dealing with life threatening illnesses too. Easy to say to 'choose life' but sometimes the quality of life suffers depending upon the methods of treatment.

It's just a lot to think about. It's not an easy question, and to me, there are no easy answers.

Wise you are indeed. The only thing I'd add is if multiple vital organs are shutting down in an elderly person, it's probably time to "call it a day".
 
SLM
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Wise you are indeed. The only thing I'd add is if multiple vital organs are shutting down in an elderly person, it's probably time to "call it a day".

I'm definitely going to be having many dialogues with my kids during the next couple of decades. Not the sort of thing I want them wondering about what I would want.
 
JLM
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

I'm definitely going to be having many dialogues with my kids during the next couple of decades. Not the sort of thing I want them wondering about what I would want.

Depending on ones financial status it can be a bit of a quandary how much encouragement one's kids need!
 
SLM
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Depending on ones financial status it can be a bit of a quandary how much encouragement one's kids need!

LOL. Sadly not worth much (financially speaking) alive or dead.
 
JLM
+2
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

LOL. Sadly not worth much (financially speaking) alive or dead.

Yep, there is definitely an up side to not being rich. You don't have to worry about family and if you have no friends you don't have to wonder why!
 
SLM
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Yep, there is definitely an up side to not being rich. You don't have to worry about family and if you have no friends you don't have to wonder why!

It's like I always say, "Better to be poor. It's cheaper."

But I do have friends though. What I lack in material possessions I make up for in charm and wit, lol.
 
JLM
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

It's like I always say, "Better to be poor. It's cheaper."

But I do have friends though. What I lack in material possessions I make up for in charm and wit, lol.

You're lucky, I'm just rude, crude and lewd!
 
SLM
+1
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I'm just rude, crude and lewd!

Not from my point of view.
 
L Gilbert
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

An opinion piece written by a physician that I found interesting and certainly thought provoking.

How Doctors Die « Zócalo Public Square (external - login to view)

Interesting.
Around here, and in other rural areas, there are shortages of doctors. So should we expect doctors not to retire? For as they swear an oath not to do harm, removing themselves from doctoring causes harm indirectly. And not seeking out the best treatments doctors can get to combat their own ailments, indirectly does the same thing.
 
los7777
#17
cvv)))
 
Goober
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by los7777View Post

cvv)))

We normally use words here.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

We normally use words here.

Sometimes we also use ****.
 
Goober
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

Sometimes we also use ****.

And at times the program does it for us.
 
JLM
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

And at times the program does it for us.

How about shot by a jealous husband when caught screwing a patient?
 
L Gilbert
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by los7777View Post

cvv)))

That's easy for you to say (in whatever language it's in).
 
SLM
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Interesting.
Around here, and in other rural areas, there are shortages of doctors. So should we expect doctors not to retire? For as they swear an oath not to do harm, removing themselves from doctoring causes harm indirectly. And not seeking out the best treatments doctors can get to combat their own ailments, indirectly does the same thing.

Rural is not the only area with shortage, even in the cities if you don't already have a family doctor, good luck finding one. You end up relegated to walk-in clinics, and I've always been leery of those. Continuity of care should be an important part of healthcare, and I just don't see how one gets that in the clinics.

But the whole point of the article/op ed piece was that "the best treatments" are not always necessarily the best treatments. Just because we can do a thing, does it necessarily follow that we should be doing it?

Quote: Originally Posted by los7777View Post

cvv)))

Work on the following:

Typing skills
Language skills
Thinking skills

Not necessarily in that order.

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

We normally use words here.

Some more coherently than others.

Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

Sometimes we also use ****.

Also, some more coherently than others.

Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

That's easy for you to say (in whatever language it's in).

How bored does one need to be in order to take the time to register for membership, find a thread and post that in it? Moderately or very?
 
L Gilbert
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

Rural is not the only area with shortage, even in the cities if you don't already have a family doctor, good luck finding one. You end up relegated to walk-in clinics, and I've always been leery of those. Continuity of care should be an important part of healthcare, and I just don't see how one gets that in the clinics.

Unless one is lucky enough to get the same doc every time at the walk-in. Which is fairly easy in small communities.

Quote:

But the whole point of the article/op ed piece was that "the best treatments" are not always necessarily the best treatments. Just because we can do a thing, does it necessarily follow that we should be doing it?

Nope.

Quote:

How bored does one need to be in order to take the time to register for membership, find a thread and post that in it? Moderately or very?

Apparently the process is too much for some. lol
 
SLM
#25
[QUOTE=L Gilbert;1532127]Unless one is lucky enough to get the same doc every time at the walk-in. Which is fairly easy in small communities.

Less likely in the cities, unfortunately. I have a GP and I'm hanging on for dear life.

Quote:

Apparently the process is too much for some. lol

Good grief, how far gone do you have to be if registering on an internet forum renders you completely incapable of communication!
 
Sparrow
#26
Well my hubby and I have signed papers for no resuscitation and no machines, just medication to relieve pain if needed. It also includes if one of us ends up in the hospital and they put us on machines before the other arrives, the other has our request to disconnect.
 

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