Violence Against Whom???

Violence Against Whom???

Colpy

#1Dec 4th, 2011

The Silly Season of December 6 is almost upon us........and so, I thought I would review some stats of interest:

Canadian Statistics for the years 2004 to 2008:

74% of homicide victims were male.
26% of homicide victims were female.

Interestingly, 38% of male victims were killed with firearms, while only 20% of female victims were killed with firearms.

--

I have refused to wear the white ribbon, as I consider it both an insult to men, and a blatant attempt at social engineering.

Isn't it time we quit talking about "violence against women" or "the war on women" as if women were disproportionately targeted?

All homicide is tragedy.

Cliffy

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

They never talk about violence against men perpetrated by women.

damngrumpy

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

The fact is too many men and women are dying for nothing except the sheer volume
of violence. I think we should focus more on the violence against women in specific
communities, IE honour killings etc. As for the male deaths, many of them come
about for reasons other than domestic violence. I do agree though that too much
social engineering is involved. We hear about women being murdered and we
immediately associate it with violence against women, or some form of domestic
violence. The other assumption is that some man had it in for women and this comes
from a few serious cases like the one in Montreal some years ago.
Society really has to look at the root causes for murder rather than whether its a case
of men killing women or the other way around.

SLM

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

What's clear to me from the link is that there are differences between genders when it comes to violent crime. The differences should not be ignored either way. If we're going to look at gender differences with respect to violence, then let's look at gender differences.

From the link:

Quote:

Profile of the accused
In general, women most often reported being victimized by men regardless of crime type, and this was the case as well for male victims. Men were considered the accused in 81% of cases of violent victimization against women, and in 79% of cases of violent victimization against males; whereas females accounted for 10% of victimizations against females and 10% against males.

What these numbers show pretty clearly is that the perpetrators of violent crime are disproportionately male irrespective of the gender of the victim.

Quote:

Men and women are victims of different types of violent crime

1. Victims of more serious forms of physical assault reported to police were more likely to be men

In the broad category of "physical assaults", the numbers are pretty even here. But male victims have higher incidence of more serious injuries sustained from these assualts than women do. Use of a weapon against a male is almost double than use of a weapon against a woman. Aggravated assault (wounding, maiming, endangering the life) is three times higher for males than females.

Quote:

2. Men are physically assaulted in a public place outside the home more often than women

Assault inside the home was the most common setting for both genders, but looking at each gender approx. 75% of assaults against women occured in the home and for males it's about 42%. That's a significant difference.

The most interesting stat here to me though was that 29% of male victims were assaulted in a public place (bus stop, parking lot, etc) as compared to only 13% of female victims. This is also a significant difference and where I find it interesting is that, as a woman, I am very much aware of dangers lurking in such places It's very ingrained largely due to the vast amount of messaging about this that has been targeted toward females.

Quote:

3. Women more often physically assaulted by a spouse, men by a stranger

Different assailants depending on the gender of the victim, but proportionately about the same respectively.

Quote:

4. Police-reported sexual assault rate more than 10 times higher for female victims compared to males

Personally, I think the degree of unreported sexual assaults is going to skew this stat and while I also personally believe that the rate will always be higher for female victims, I'm also sure that the number of unreported assaults against male victims is probably disproportionately higher than for females.

Quote:

5. More than one-quarter of female victims of sexual assault suffered a physical injury

95% of all sexual assaults were the result of force against both genders and 1/4 of female victims sustained physical injury as a result. There are no numbers presented for male victims here and, as with the above point, that would make a comparison difficult.

Quote:

6. Higher proportion of sexual assaults against male victims occur in institutional settings

Now this is another interesting number. Most sexual assault for either gender tends to occur in a residential setting, but for males incidence of assault in a school, university, or other corporate setting is 2.5 times higher than for females. Again, I can't help but wonder about the messaging/warning that's been targeted towards females regarding this.

Quote:

7. Accused in incidents of sexual assaults against male and female are often known to the victim

The numbers are pretty even here with the significant difference being only in the identity of the perpetrator. For females, it is predominently a spouse or former partner, for male it is a relative, friend or aquaintance.

Quote:

8. While men were more likely to be the victim of a homicide, female homicide victims were more often killed by a spouse

Homicides account for less than 1% of all violent crimes reported and males are more likely to be victims. Similar numbers to above for the most part. Again what jumps out at me is 15% of men are victims of stranger homicide and 5% of woman, out of all homicides for each gender. Also again, I wonder about the warning messages targeted towards predominently towards females and whether that has made an impact.

Quote:

9. Homicides with male victims more likely to involve firearms and gangs

Use of weapon is higher for male victims than females. Now personally, I don't think it makes much of a difference whether someone is shot, stabbed, strangled, drowned, etc. Dead is dead. I don't buy into the whole "guns kill people" bull; people kill people plain and simple. A toaster in the wrong hands can be a deadly weapon. For the most part I think the significance of higher incidence of weapon use male to male is that, for the most part anyway, the average male can overpower the average female without need of a weapon.

Quote:

10. Motives surrounding a homicide vary according to the sex of the victim

Vengence is a higher motive for homicide of males; for females it seems to be more based on a more personal/intimate motivations.

Overall, there are enough significant differences between the genders when it comes to being the victim of a violent crime that I don't think we can generalize violence as simply violence. Yes, in the sense that all violence is wrong regardless of who the victim is, but if we are actually looking at preventing violent crime from occuring we can't ignore the differences.

Do I think we need to stop the "violence against women" campaigns? No, what I think we need to start doing is becoming more aware of the "violence against men" instead. (Side note: the "war on women" way of thinking is infuriating to me as a woman as I believe it perpetuates a victimization mindset. That's my personal opinion on that.)

IdRatherBeSkiing

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

12/06 has become a day to punish all men for the actions of 1 crazy man.

SLM

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

It sincerely pisses me off when things like this are hijacked by people looking to score some kind of political goal. It infuriates me even more that it is allowed to become some twisted politically/socially polarizing event. The options constantly being thrown at us that you are either on board with that way of thinking or you are diamterically opposed to it.

I say bull****, this was a horrific crime. Those victims deserve to be remembered not the jackass who killed them and not because of some 'social issue'.

Geneviève Bergeron
Hélène Colgan
Nathalie Croteau
Barbara Daigneault
Anne-Marie Edward
Maud Haviernick
Maryse Laganière
Maryse Leclair
Anne-Marie Lemay
Sonia Pelletier
Michèle Richard
Annie St-Arneault
Annie Turcotte
Barbara Klucznik-Widajewicz

petros

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

These items will never cure breast cancer.

And White Ribbons will never end violence against women.

Nuggler

#8 Top Rated Post

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

If that misogynistic , Marc Lepine hadn't pulled the trigger, some lovely ladies would still be alive today. Designing and building bridges, houses, contributing to society, having kids - a life.

Thanks to that sick fukker we lost all those people AND had to endure the knee jerk reaction which gave us years of long gun registration which did nothing to prevent anything. It did however, cost a bundle.

Still does, but Stevo has promised; not for long. Let's hope he keeps this one.

No white ribbon for me. Violence against women repels me but the WR will do nothing to stop it.

petros

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

He was crazy and since that time mental health funding is still 10% of what is needed.

TenPenny

#10

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

He was crazy and since that time mental health funding is still 10% of what is needed.

It would be simpler to let people with registered long guns shoot people with mental health problems. Then everyone would want to register their long guns.

petros

#11

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

We're due for a culling. Can we add almost crazy people to the list too?

Colpy

#12

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

It sincerely pisses me off when things like this are hijacked by people looking to score some kind of political goal. It infuriates me even more that it is allowed to become some twisted politically/socially polarizing event. The options constantly being thrown at us that you are either on board with that way of thinking or you are diamterically opposed to it.

I say bull****, this was a horrific crime. Those victims deserve to be remembered not the jackass who killed them and not because of some 'social issue'.

Geneviève Bergeron

Hélène Colgan

Nathalie Croteau

Barbara Daigneault

Anne-Marie Edward

Maud Haviernick

Maryse Laganière

Maryse Leclair

Anne-Marie Lemay

Sonia Pelletier

Michèle Richard

Annie St-Arneault

Annie Turcotte

Barbara Klucznik-Widajewicz

Yep.

This was an act that needs to be remembered...............

But not used.

Speaking of which......

--

55Mercury

#13

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

We're due for a culling. Can we add almost crazy people to the list too?

uh...

no

Colpy

#14

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

We're due for a culling. Can we add almost crazy people to the list too?

Just what I need!

EVERYBODY shooting at me.

Nuggler

#15

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

The Silly Season of December 6 is almost upon us........and so, I thought I would review some stats of interest:

Canadian Statistics for the years 2004 to 2008:

74% of homicide victims were male.
26% of homicide victims were female.

Interestingly, 38% of male victims were killed with firearms, while only 20% of female victims were killed with firearms.

--

I have refused to wear the white ribbon, as I consider it both an insult to men, and a blatant attempt at social engineering.

Isn't it time we quit talking about "violence against women" or "the war on women" as if women were disproportionately targeted?

All homicide is tragedy.

I suppose now the wimmen will be wanting equal representation with the men. Sheesh, Colpy, talk about opening a can of worms.

55Mercury

#16

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

Some people who know some people with mental disabilities would like to be shot too. - mercifully.

Bar Sinister

#17

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

Violence does not have to end in death. I note that in Colpy's post his reference includes all sorts of crimes, but his comment focuses only on murders. There are literally thousands of men who regularly beat their wives and girlfriends and many of these beatings do not get reported until they have occurred several times. As for violence against men by women - it happens - but not nearly in the numbers that violence by men against women occurs. It is also worth pointing out that so far as I know there has never been a case of any woman targeting a man or group of men simply because of their gender, which is certainly not the case at the École Polytechnique.

Colpy

#18

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 4th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Bar Sinister

Violence does not have to end in death. I note that in Colpy's post his reference includes all sorts of crimes, but his comment focuses only on murders. There are literally thousands of men who regularly beat their wives and girlfriends and many of these beatings do not get reported until they have occurred several times. As for violence against men by women - it happens - but not nearly in the numbers that violence by men against women occurs. It is also worth pointing out that so far as I know there has never been a case of any woman targeting a man or group of men simply because of their gender, which is certainly not the case at the École Polytechnique.

All true enough.....

Colpy

#19

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 6th, 2011

Making my point for me:

Parliamentarians mark École Polytechnique massacre – but Tories aren't welcome - The Globe and Mail

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...n-against-men/

DaSleeper

-1

#20

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 6th, 2011

What some conveniently forget is that Lépine's gun was registered..............

Colpy

#21

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 6th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper

What some conveniently forget is that Lépine's gun was registered..............

Actually, no it was not. Registration was not required at that time.

But LePine could have registered it, if that had been necessary. He passed all the requirements for a Firearms acquisition License.....then called an FAC.

BTW, turns out I'm getting all wound up over nothing. The great NDP-Liberal anti-Liberty congregation totaled about 150 people......

DaSleeper

#22

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 6th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

Actually, no it was not. Registration was not required at that time.

But LePine could have registered it, if that had been necessary. He passed all the requirements for a Firearms acquisition License.....then called an FAC.

BTW, turns out I'm getting all wound up over nothing. The great NDP-Liberal anti-Liberty congregation totaled about 150 people......

Thanks.....I was going by memory, because some time before that I had to register a .30 MI carbine I had purchased eons before (because the barrel was under 18") just to be legal.
The reason I remember that is because the OPP officer at the time told me it didn't need to be registered.
Because he was measuring on the outside from the breech to the muzzle which was over the 18" minimum.
I had to show him the proper way to measure, by closing the breech and putting a cleaning rod down the barrel and measuring what is in the barrel.
I sometimes wonder how many registrants he turned away before

Colpy

#23

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 6th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper

Thanks.....I was going by memory, because some time before that I had to register a .30 MI carbine I had purchased eons before (because the barrel was under 18") just to be legal.
The reason I remember that is because the OPP officer at the time told me it didn't need to be registered.
Because he was measuring on the outside from the breech to the muzzle which was over the 18" minimum.
I had to show him the proper way to measure, by closing the breech and putting a cleaning rod down the barrel and measuring what is in the barrel.
I sometimes wonder how many registrants he turned away before

LOL!!

Don't get me started!!!

Too late.

My brother had occasion to deal with the local police over his restricted weapons........and was closely questioned. turns out a police officer had misread the serial numbers....on two out of the three pistols, so they came back as unregistered.

Extrapolate THAT to the rest of the system!

It was revealed some time ago that no less than 18 Walther PP type pistols were registered under the same number. Turns out it was the Patent No.... lol

Extrapolate THAT to the rest of the system!

At least 4004 long guns were registered in the system.....despite the fact they had been reported stolen!

My old partner at Brinks duly sent away the registration forms for his long guns........and got no reply, although his cheque was cashed. He called, and wanted to give them the serial numbers to see if they actually had been registered, and to get new cards. They told him "the system doesn't work that way.......we can't just look up a gun with the serial number" He never did register.

I tried to transfer a Savage SXS shotgun, to be told it did not exist....according to their magical system. After 10 minutes of argument, she finally found it, and told me in a condescending tone "That's a FOX, not a Savage!' WRONG! Savage has owned Fox for 65 years........and the gun was marked SAVAGE.

I could go on...

I will.

I got a magical Firearms Identification Number sticker to afix to a lovely old Marlin bolt action .22 repeater, made without a serial number. I carefully followed instructions on afixing the "permanent" sticker, degreased a smooth area on the receiver, carefully dried in, avoided contact with the sticky surface.....and applied it. It immediately fell off. I laughed, chucked it and the other two I'd gotten out, and those guns still have no numbers.

I have a mediocre collection of about 25 guns. I have to write on the back of the registration forms further information to tell which goes with which without consulting serial numbers. For instance, I have Rem. Model 7s in .308 and .223, both with Leupold 4X scopes. The caliber is NOT included on the registration.....

USELESS.....

IdRatherBeSkiing

#24

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 6th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy

My brother had occasion to deal with the local police over his restricted weapons........and was closely questioned. turns out a police officer had misread the serial numbers....on two out of the three pistols, so they came back as unregistered.

Not to mention the thousands that are no doubt recorded wrong.

Blackleaf

#25

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 14th, 2011

In Britain you hardly ever hear domestic violence against men discussed in the media or by anti-domestic violence organisations.

This is despite the fact that 5% of British men have been the victims of domestic abuse, not far behind the number of women who have been the victims of domestic abuse - 7%.

In Canada the stats are almost exactly the same but the gap is even narrower. 6% of Canadian men, and 7% of Canadian women, have been victims of domestic abuse.

oleoleolanda

#26

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 15th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by Blackleaf

In Britain you hardly ever hear domestic violence against men discussed in the media or by anti-domestic violence organisations.

This is despite the fact that 5% of British men have been the victims of domestic abuse, not far behind the number of women who have been the victims of domestic abuse - 7%.

In Canada the stats are almost exactly the same but the gap is even narrower. 6% of Canadian men, and 7% of Canadian women, have been victims of domestic abuse.

It was feminism that raised awareness of domestic violence in society, as well as abuse, including sexual abuse, of children. Unfortunately, it did so under the incorrect theory that these crimes were based on patriarchy and male power and deviency, which really worked hand in hand with the old sexist views that women are helpless and childlike. Even as the facts are coming out proving that women commit domestic violence against men and women (the rates of domestic violence in the lesbian community are very high) and that women, including mothers and other relatives, sexually abuse children, these facts are suppressed by the media as well as by the research community, which remains dominated by the feminist theory. And when it's not supressed, it's excused. The courts also typically go very easy on women who comitt these crimes in comparison to men. That's because they are perceived as "victims", often as having been victims of abuse themselves, or being mentally ill or suffering from depression. Fact is, most men who commit these crimes were also victims of abuse or domestic violence as children, suffer from depression, etc. but that's not seen as an excuse for men. And then much of the research and stats are based on convictions, so the numbers for women guilty of these crimes look way lower than they really are. As well, with the societal attitudes, many victims of female abuse and domestic violence don't come forward, so there's a huge problem with under reporting.

JLM

#27

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 15th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

It sincerely pisses me off when things like this are hijacked by people looking to score some kind of political goal. It infuriates me even more that it is allowed to become some twisted politically/socially polarizing event. The options constantly being thrown at us that you are either on board with that way of thinking or you are diamterically opposed to it.

I say bull****, this was a horrific crime. Those victims deserve to be remembered not the jackass who killed them and not because of some 'social issue'.

Geneviève Bergeron

Hélène Colgan

Nathalie Croteau

Barbara Daigneault

Anne-Marie Edward

Maud Haviernick

Maryse Laganière

Maryse Leclair

Anne-Marie Lemay

Sonia Pelletier

Michèle Richard

Annie St-Arneault

Annie Turcotte

Barbara Klucznik-Widajewicz

"Jackass" is far too kind for that S.O.B.

bobnoorduyn

#28

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 16th, 2011

Sensationalism, obfuscation, exaggeration, and divisiveness, (the "us vs. them" mentality) are the jackhammers in the activists' toolbox. For years womens' groups have portrayed themselves as vicitms of the system run by men, and for quite a time they in fact were, to a point. But as the equality of opportunity gap closed these groups found themselves becoming more and more irrelevent and began a "war without end" setting the "equality" bar ever higher. LEAF, (the Womens' Legal and Education Fund) is most active in the fight to expand the discrimination against men to turn equal opportunity into equal result. In other words, moving their starting line closer to the finish line, (I would love to have that advantage, I'd enter the Olympics). Offering university spots or employment based on race or gender is as much discrimination as denying the same based on likewise traits. Discrimination sucks, government sanctioned and approved discrimination sucks to the 10th power. But this is what is required to achieve an unattainable goal, which ensures the funding tap remains on indefinately.

I don't intend to blame the victims, I put the blame squarely on the system and groups that turned them into victims. In 1967, the federal Liberal government amended the Criminal Code to deprive the Local Registrars of Firearms the capacity to issue Conceal Carry Permits, after which only the wealthy or politicians were issued permits. The attempted effemination of our boys started years ago in our educational institutions, and continues in the workplace. It doesn't work, at least not in society's interest. Official discrimination favoured women over men for enrollment in engineering classes. And to cloud the issue, Marc Lepine is never refered to by his name, Gamil Gharbi. Whether he was a practicing Muslim, we'll never know, not officially anyway, or whether his belief was that it is an offense for women to achieve higher learning, or why he was denied enrollment. Whatever, the fuse was lit.

In any case, all the men left the classrooms when ordered to do so, because they were indoctinated as sheep starting at a young age, this is a proud Canadian tradition. (Jacob Ryker was shot several times, but still he and 7 other schoolmates disarmed and subdued an attacker at the Thurston High School in Oregon, he survived and was awarded the highest honour in the Boy Scouts of America for leadership and bravery.) No one was able to be legally armed as per the law of 1967, except of course the police, who were not required, nor even allowed to intentionally put themselves in harm's way.

I find it unsettling that someone would poke the tiger in the eye and call themselves a victim after being mauled, but it is beyond disgusting that the same person would poke the tiger in the eye from a safe distance and let others be victims, and still call themselves a vicitm.

oleoleolanda

#29

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 16th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

"Jackass" is far too kind for that S.O.B.

He was a demented killer and it is the victims who should be remembered rather than him but the massacre had nothing to do with domestic violence. Lepine's parents separated when he was about 5, I believe, and the mother said she'd been a victim of domestic violence on the divorce papers. However, when they separated, Lepine's mother paid foster families to take care of her children while she went back to work, and continued with her studies, including a Masters. She visited with her kids on the weekends and told them that the reason she had essentially abandoned them (as had their father) was because she had to work and get an education. Well, growing up in those days, I knew kids of single moms who worked and studied and they all managed to live with their kids. These days we can understand the traumatic impact this rejection by his mother would have had on the young Lepine and who knows what went on in these "hired" families. Lepine was also sexually abused by a Big Brother. Instead of growing up to understand his pain and anger at the abandonment, he turned pathological and monstrous and murdered the "feminists who were pursuing an education." He projected his rage for his mother, his pain, onto these innocent young women. His sister dealt with her pain with drug addiction, which eventually took her life.

The Montreal Massacre should be a day to think about child abuse, child neglect, child abandonment in all its forms and what we can do to prevent it and to help its victims when they are children rather than wait for the small percentage who end up turning it into hatred and murder and violence.

JLM

#30

Re: Violence Against Whom???

Dec 16th, 2011

Quote: Originally Posted by oleoleolanda

He was a demented killer and it is the victims who should be remembered rather than him but the massacre had nothing to do with domestic violence. Lepine's parents separated when he was about 5, I believe, and the mother said she'd been a victim of domestic violence on the divorce papers. However, when they separated, Lepine's mother paid foster families to take care of her children while she went back to work, and continued with her studies, including a Masters. She visited with her kids on the weekends and told them that the reason she had essentially abandoned them (as had their father) was because she had to work and get an education. Well, growing up in those days, I knew kids of single moms who worked and studied and they all managed to live with their kids. These days we can understand the traumatic impact this rejection by his mother would have had on the young Lepine and who knows what went on in these "hired" families. Lepine was also sexually abused by a Big Brother. Instead of growing up to understand his pain and anger at the abandonment, he turned pathological and monstrous and murdered the "feminists who were pursuing an education." He projected his rage for his mother, his pain, onto these innocent young women. His sister dealt with her pain with drug addiction, which eventually took her life.
The Montreal Massacre should be a day to think about child abuse, child neglect, child abandonment in all its forms and what we can do to prevent it and...
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

I think there are reasons that Lepine did what he did that had nothing to do with the details of his domestic home life. There was a "short circuit" somewhere.

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