#61
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 7th, 2011
6 commandment broken.
Remember vi
You said if someone breaks a commandment they are not a Christian.
Remember vi
You said if someone breaks a commandment they are not a Christian.
The Christian Lie :)
#62
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh
Well, the 6th commandment in the Bible says kill or murder. How does one kill or murder that which the Bible itself does not consider a living soul/being?? Nowhere does the Bible accept a fetus or embryo as a living being before it draws it's first breath.6 commandment broken.
Remember vi
You said if someone breaks a commandment they are not a Christian.
#63
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 7th, 2011Quote:
I never said I agreed with it (because I don't). I was merely bringing it up to show that he's not the only religious person to invoke that same fallacy to defend their religious faith.So to counter his assertion, you invoke the same fallacy?
Mentalfloss gets it.
#64
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh
You're right. I did word it poorly. I did say a person who does not follow the ten commanments is not a christian. I'll say it how I really feel. I've already said that I think people should be called "good people" rather than christians because the ten commandments are things good people just do without holding a copy of the ten commandments in their pocket for reference. Thou shalt not kill. Tough one isn't it. If I am alone in my home and someone breaks in with intent to kill or harm me - should I stand back and allow that to happen because I believe in the ten commandments? I do not have access to something like a gun or any item a person would refer to as a weapon. Like any household, I have knives in the drawer. Would I use one to save my own life - yes I would. If I killed in the process, I would be breaking the commandments. I feel I could be forgiven for that because while I would have killed a person, I would not have planned that kill - I would not have committed murder nor would I have killed for the sake of revenge. My point being -sometimes choices have to be made and it's all up to the individual. The raped woman who decides not to keep the child she did not plan for has to make her own decision. Not every woman would give up the child. It's just so personal a decision IMO that we cannot judge a person for it. I am fortunate that I have never been in the position and am of an age that I never will be. I don't know anyone who has been in the position either so again - I cannot judge them.6 commandment broken.
Remember vi
You said if someone breaks a commandment they are not a Christian.
#65
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear
Ninja Bear!While invoking the same fallacy...
Follow along carefully MF, you might figure out that I use specific words/wording, for a reason too.
#66
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 7th, 2011
Just my two cents, but it seems to me there would be a lot less terrorist in the world when people admit that religion is BS.
#67
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 8th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
As usual, it always comes down to you admitting I was rigt.Ninja Bear!
Why you even start with the premise that I was wrong in some way, is beyond me.
#68
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 13th, 2011
Sorry I missed this...
Quote: Originally Posted by Nationhood
Like I said, invoked. I didn't say you agreed with it. Where did you get that idea from?I never said I agreed with it (because I don't). I was merely bringing it up to show that he's not the only religious person to invoke that same fallacy to defend their religious faith.
Quote:
I'm sure he does, seeing as you both made the same mistake.Mentalfloss gets it.
#69
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 13th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by itsmesean
Huh.....Just my two cents, but it seems to me there would be a lot less terrorist in the world when people admit that religion is BS.
Atheists, in the guise of Marxists, murdered 100 million people in the twentieth century.....
Wanna run that by me again?????
+1
#70Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 13th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy
A common mistake by the religious is that just because people think religion is bunk doesn't mean they are atheists. I believe in the Creator and spirituality but I think religion breeds contempt for everybody who doesn't believe their brand of belief system. In other words: separation. To me spirituality is a belief in a deity without religious dogma. It is the dogma that is dangerous not the teachings behind it.Huh.....
Atheists, in the guise of Marxists, murdered 100 million people in the twentieth century.....
Wanna run that by me again?????
#71
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 13th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
Are you saying that everyone that has a particular religious belief has contempt for others that have a differing religious belief?A common mistake by the religious is that just because people think religion is bunk doesn't mean they are atheists. I believe in the Creator and spirituality but I think religion breeds contempt for everybody who doesn't believe their brand of belief system. In other words: separation. To me spirituality is a belief in a deity without religious dogma. It is the dogma that is dangerous not the teachings behind it.
#72
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Oct 13th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Goober
Not really, but it does seem to be the trend. I have talked with hundreds of people from the various Christian sects and very few were tolerant of others from different sects. I tried once to get all the various religious groups in the Quesnel area to gather together to discuss their similarities. Of course it never happened because the JWs would show up if the Mormons did and the Baptist would show if the Pentecostals did and.... and... You get my drift?Are you saying that everyone that has a particular religious belief has contempt for others that have a differing religious belief?
#73
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Nov 29th, 2011
He's insane. Surprised? Not me.
Norway mass killer deemed insane by psychiatrists - World - CBC News
Norway mass killer deemed insane by psychiatrists - World - CBC News
#74
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Nov 29th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck
It's a polite way of deflecting from the fact that he had christian ideals.He's insane. Surprised? Not me.
Norway mass killer deemed insane by psychiatrists - World - CBC News
#75
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Nov 29th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
Bull****.It's a polite way of deflecting from the fact that he had christian ideals.
His very actions belie that idea.
He is insane.....if he thought he was a duck, would you be blaming Mallards????
+1
#76Re: The Christian Lie :)
Nov 29th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy
roflmaoBull****.
His very actions belie that idea.
He is insane.....if he thought he was a duck, would you be blaming Mallards????
Let it go man. Even if he was insane, it doesn't excuse the muslim-hating, medieval christianism.
#77
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Nov 29th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
Who is excusing it???roflmao
Let it go man. Even if he was insane, it doesn't excuse the muslim-hating, medieval christianism.
I think he should be hanged in the public square of Oslo.....sane or crazy. He knew it was wrong.
Even if you considered him sane, the problem is he made a leap to political Christianity........a philosophy dead since shortly after the Middle Ages........
That has absolutely nothing to do with Christian theology....read the New Testament.
And he denies in his statement any connection to the philosophy of Christianity.......
Completely unlike political Islam......as Islam at its core is political, with exhortations to war, domination, extermination of unbelievers, and Jew murder, Muslim killers are expecting their reward in heaven. They are completely in line with Muslim theology. Read the Koran and the hadith.
There has been a simple, peaceful non-political Christianity dominant in the world for hundreds of years.......while Islam spreads by the sword.
If you can't tell the difference.....well, never mind.
#78
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Nov 29th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy
You should probably stick to the topic instead of using this crazy man's ideology as an excuse to slander muslims.Completely unlike political Islam......as Islam at its core is political, with exhortations to war, domination, extermination of unbelievers, and Jew murder, Muslim killers are expecting their reward in heaven. They are completely in line with Muslim theology. Read the Koran and the hadith.
You're starting to sound a lot like him.
#79
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Nov 29th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
I did address the topic.....which you chose not to address You should probably stick to the topic instead of using this crazy man's ideology as an excuse to slander muslims.
You're starting to sound a lot like him.
Quote:
Even if you considered him sane, the problem is he made a leap to political Christianity........a philosophy dead since shortly after the Middle Ages........
That has absolutely nothing to do with Christian theology....read the New Testament.
And he denies in his statement any connection to the philosophy of Christianity.......
#80
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Nov 29th, 2011
But Colpy, why would you take his own word for it?
He's clearly insane.
He's clearly insane.
Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy
He is insane.....if he thought he was a duck, would you be blaming Mallards????
+2
#81Re: The Christian Lie :)
Dec 1st, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy
Good grief, there has NEVER been a simple, peaceful, non-political Christianity..........It began with GOD arranging the slaughter of "His only begotten Son" and it goes downhill from there. Christianity stole all it's events from older religions, it has wiped out most of the more benign natural beliefs. It brought prejudice ...regarding other religions, races and even gender. It still enforces bigotry and hatred. If you wish I can quote all kinds of biblical verses to prove all this. Christianity along with other organized religions are and have been the basis for most of the world's problems. Remember some of the first words in Christianity were "Go forth and multiply". Unfortunately, we have done this until the state of our planet is in dire jeopardy and we are starting to fight over what is left!!Who is excusing it???
I think he should be hanged in the public square of Oslo.....sane or crazy. He knew it was wrong.
Even if you considered him sane, the problem is he made a leap to political Christianity........a philosophy dead since shortly after the Middle Ages........
That has absolutely nothing to do with Christian theology....read the New Testament.
And he denies in his statement any connection to the philosophy of Christianity.......
Completely unlike political Islam......as Islam at its core is political, with exhortations to war, domination, extermination of unbelievers, and Jew murder, Muslim killers are expecting their reward in heaven. They are completely in line with Muslim theology. Read the Koran and the hadith.
There has been a simple, peaceful non-political Christianity dominant in the world for hundreds of years.......while Islam spreads by the sword.
If you can't tell the difference.....well, never mind.
#82
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Dec 1st, 2011Quote:
Hitler proclaimed himself a Catholic and Stalin was a seminarian at one time. Both claimed to be biblical adherents. I agree with you that they had no business calling themselves Christian. But then, neither did Queen Victoria or King Leopold and both killed even more people than either of these 20th century murderers while proclaiming themselves children of Christian Providence. There is no question that Marxist atheists like Mao, Pol Pot, and others committed atrocities. But this does not mean Christians or Christian professing types were not among those criminals.Atheists, in the guise of Marxists, murdered 100 million people in the twentieth century.....
#83
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Dec 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by MHz
It's been tried before. Never seems to work out that well. No matter how many Christians you annihilate, terrorize and otherwise deny freedom of religion they always keep coming back and getting stronger. Pesky Christians!It wouldn't bother me to see any/all Church Organizations pay a heavy price in money and have their door closed permanently as they really are a blight on society. That being said, I can't find any verse or passage that gave them the authority to do what they have done over the centuries right up unto today with their fear-mongering and other assorted mis-deeds that go unpunished. That being said, the ones in charge of doing such clean-ups are part of the same problem, no wonder the 'clean-up' just never seems to happen.
Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
You're kidding right? The numbers that Stalin killed alone amounted to what would have been one fifth the population of Europe at the time of Leopold. Check your history stats gopher.Hitler proclaimed himself a Catholic and Stalin was a seminarian at one time. Both claimed to be biblical adherents. I agree with you that they had no business calling themselves Christian. But then, neither did Queen Victoria or King Leopold and both killed even more people than either of these 20th century murderers while proclaiming themselves children of Christian Providence. There is no question that Marxist atheists like Mao, Pol Pot, and others committed atrocities. But this does not mean Christians or Christian professing types were not among those criminals.
+1
#84Re: The Christian Lie :)
Dec 16th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
Jesuits....Hitler proclaimed himself a Catholic and Stalin was a seminarian at one time. Both claimed to be biblical adherents. I agree with you that they had no business calling themselves Christian. But then, neither did Queen Victoria or King Leopold and both killed even more people than either of these 20th century murderers while proclaiming themselves children of Christian Providence. There is no question that Marxist atheists like Mao, Pol Pot, and others committed atrocities. But this does not mean Christians or Christian professing types were not among those criminals.
#85
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Dec 17th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
What it does mean, gopher, and why it is brought up in the first place, is that if you look closely you will discover that the great myth of religion being the cause of all wars, yadda, yadda, a convenient way for people to close their minds off because the truth is never that simple, and the greatest numbers of people in any century killed by governments of any kind for any reason are by far done by anti-Christian, anti-Jewish atheists who did so in large measure in the name of atheism, not entirely, but in large measure.Hitler proclaimed himself a Catholic and Stalin was a seminarian at one time. Both claimed to be biblical adherents. I agree with you that they had no business calling themselves Christian. But then, neither did Queen Victoria or King Leopold and both killed even more people than either of these 20th century murderers while proclaiming themselves children of Christian Providence. There is no question that Marxist atheists like Mao, Pol Pot, and others committed atrocities. But this does not mean Christians or Christian professing types were not among those criminals.
But let us play the odds.
We do know that the Christian faith of whatever stripe, denounces genocide, denounces killing anyone on the basis of their religion or lack thereof.
(If Christianity was intolerant as it is hyperventilatingly described by some, where did all the atheists come from in Canada, or America, or western Europe for that matter? They should have all been eliminated by now! Think!)
Why does Christianity denounce genocide, or murder for that matter? There is a very good reason, found in the faith itself for those who care to look. Each person is valued intrinsically because of their humanity. This comes from a belief that God values each individual for their humanity.
Now, on the other side. If every person is a mere collection of chemicals animated by electrical impulses and only the result of an accident of the universe, completely random, where is that intrinsic value? It seems to me that it would be quite easy to convince oneself and cohorts with the power of life and death, under that value system, to eliminate large numbers of those human beings for whatever reason came to mind.
Looking back over history, at the actual numbers, it is clear that Christians or those who claimed to be Christians, have violated their own faith and committed murder, even mass murder on occasion. But it is important to recognize that it was indeed a violation.
On the other hand, the Stalins and Pol Pots and Maos of the world were violating what? Their belief system? If so, how so?
So, if I am a betting man, regardless of my own faith or lack thereof, the odds of survival are better under Christians than atheists, because most of the time, when Christians are following their faith, they will not annihilate me as simply a random collection of cells, even though I might think that is all that I really am, simply because their faith teaches them that I am intrinsically valuable as a human being.
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
Well, cliffy, you do have a problem then don't you? "It is the dogma that is dangerous, not the teachings behind it." That is a dogmatic statement if I ever heard one. The fact is, you have dogmas that you live by. Everyone does. If you had to re-think everything every morning when you got up you would never leave the house.A common mistake by the religious is that just because people think religion is bunk doesn't mean they are atheists. I believe in the Creator and spirituality but I think religion breeds contempt for everybody who doesn't believe their brand of belief system. In other words: separation. To me spirituality is a belief in a deity without religious dogma. It is the dogma that is dangerous not the teachings behind it.
You just don't like the dogmas of certain organized religions. Fair enough. But dogma itself is not the problem. Perhaps you just want what C.S.Lewis described as a "tame" God. One that you can define for yourself and who doesn't interfere with your life and your particular moral values. A guilt free life perhaps for a time but if you really think about it long and hard, what's the point of believing in a God at all? That is where a lot of people have realized that agnosticism at minimum (hardly logically tenable) or atheism is probably the more realistic position to take. Perhaps that is why many just presume atheism where someone denounces religion.
But hey, the original Christians were denounced as atheists (cannibals too) by the Romans, so you are in good company.
#87
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Dec 17th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by SimpleSimon
My goodness, you are a bigger mental masturbater than I am. I may believe in the possibility that some higher consciousness created the Universe but I do not believe it has any time or inclination to bother with such insignificant beings as humans. And I was referring to religious dogma. You can apply to whatever you want but it is not what I apply it to. The only authority I recognize in my life is me. I kiss no beings butt, seen or unseen. I don't see what that has to do with having reverence for life. The closest I will come to acknowledging a higher form of life would be the living biosphere from which all life on this planet springs, called Mother Earth by the indigenous peoples.To me, spirituality is dynamic, changing each day as new information and experiences augment my data base. There is no way I could explain my belief system to another because is is too fluid for me to put into words. It would be like trying to explain a sunset to a blind person.
Well, cliffy, you do have a problem then don't you? "It is the dogma that is dangerous, not the teachings behind it." That is a dogmatic statement if I ever heard one. The fact is, you have dogmas that you live by. Everyone does. If you had to re-think everything every morning when you got up you would never leave the house.
You just don't like the dogmas of certain organized religions. Fair enough. But dogma itself is not the problem. Perhaps you just want what C.S.Lewis described as a "tame" God. One that you can define for yourself and who doesn't interfere with your life and your particular moral values. A guilt free life perhaps for a time but if you really think about it long and hard, what's the point of believing in a God at all? That is where a lot of people have realized that agnosticism at minimum (hardly logically tenable) or atheism is probably the more realistic position to take. Perhaps that is why many just presume atheism where someone denounces religion.
But hey, the original Christians were denounced as atheists (cannibals too) by the Romans, so you are in good company.
#88
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Dec 17th, 2011
SimpleSimon, Have you even read the bible?? If so you sure never missed all these examples of God's instructions of reasons to kill.
The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as --, --, --, or --. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God's irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing --, and the killing of a --. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.
Go to the Evil Bible.com if you find the actual book too difficult to read.
The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) --, 2) --, 3) --, and 4) --. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved by the God of the Bible.
The act of murder is rampant in the Bible. In much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, there are laws that command that people be killed for absurd reasons such as --, --, --, or --. In addition to these crazy and immoral laws, there are plenty of examples of God's irrationality by his direct killing of many people for reasons that defy any rational explanation such as killing --, and the killing of a --. There are also countless examples of mass murders commanded by God, including the murder of women, infants, and children.
Go to the Evil Bible.com if you find the actual book too difficult to read.
The following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder in the Bible. They are divided here into three parts: 1) --, 2) --, 3) --, and 4) --. This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface of all the murders approved by the God of the Bible.
#89
Re: The Christian Lie :)
Dec 18th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy
Huh.....
Atheists, in the guise of Marxists, murdered 100 million people in the twentieth century.....
Wanna run that by me again?????
Not sure you are right about that, Colpy. the largest number of people killed in the 20th century occurred during the period from 1930 to about 1945. Most of the people involved were not atheists.
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