The Civil War and the Fenians

[sanctus]

1858 Uprising of Irish Catholics in Canada

© Cher Gruener
Who are the Fenians and what role did they play in relation to Canada and the civil war?

The Fenians were named after a group of Irish Catholic (after the group Sinn Fein) people determined to win Irish rule away from England. There were two factions. One was in favour of an uprising in Ireland and the other was planning to take over the rule of Canada so it could be exchanged for Irish rule. It began around 1858 and travelled with some Irish to North America. This group was somewhat a secret society. Some American Civil War vets who were pushed to join this group (mostly northerns of Irish decent) formed small groups intent on invading the land across the border. The Fenians viewed Canada as a weak British settlement where an Irish republic could be established.
Fenians starting raiding entry points of Canada, such as Fort Erie (Ontario) and Campobello Island (New Brunswick), then proved to be a bigger threat as 1,500 Fenions came into Canada from Buffalo, New York by crossing the Niagara River in 1866. Their weapons were better than the Canadians, they were quite organized, and they had plenty of money. The Canadian Militia called up many volunteers to combat them and fought hard to keep the Fenians at bay.
The Fenians didn't really succeed in starting another Ireland in North America, however they DID succeed at striking great fear into the hearts of settlers and the Government, so much so that spies were planted in the Fenians. These invasions caused the Canadian militia to become more experienced in the manner of battle. They quickly became more organized, the Canadians started actual training camps for their militia, and it forced the government to purchase some updated weapons. Not only that, but the raids caused the powers that be to have an election. It caused the promotion of nationalism and pushed the Confederation forces to again be popular, thus leading toward the birth of Canada.
In 1868, the Confederation united the militias into one body which went even further to push the Fenians out of Canada. Not reaching their goal in Canada encouraged their counterparts in Ireland to work harder and it also brought about the dismantling of the Fenian group here in North America. The group gradually fell by the wayside and disappeared around 1870.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

Bet they were funded by the US as well, just like their modern day equivilant of the IRA, murderous, terrorist scum which shows the dicothemy and paradox that is the "war on terror".

Not that I don't think the Irish Unionists arnt murdering scum too....it's just that my Brother's fiancee isnt here and I can get away with it!!

 

[RomSpaceKnight]

Shows how little things have changed at times. Here we have an example of religious/nationalist fanatics conducting terrorist raids to support a free homeland and oust an imperialistic invader. Have things changed so little in over 125 years. I believe the Fenians caused the US goverment quite a bit of concern too, with they're being so well armed and financed.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

To be honest, this irritates me, the feinians or any irish republicans calling the English "imperialists", because frankly, their ancestors spent a hell of a lot of time trying to colonise England, wales and scotland you know?...they (the irish scotti tribe) succeded in scotland, they kidnapped a welshman who went on to become st. Patrick and irrited continued to invade, raid and pilage the coast of England for hundreds of years........before we even considered colonising them.

 

[I think not]

Bet they were funded by the US as well, just like their modern day equivilant of the IRA, murderous, terrorist scum which shows the dicothemy and paradox that is the "war on terror".

Not that I don't think the Irish Unionists arnt murdering scum too....it's just that my Brother's fiancee isnt here and I can get away with it!!

The Fenians were not funded by the US government, nor was the IRA.

Unless you are attempting to be revisionist, some evidence is in order.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

The Fenians were not funded by the US government, nor was the IRA.

Unless you are attempting to be revisionist, some evidence is in order.

The IRA are funded by the US, it's a commonly known fact in these parts mate, it's not my opinion, but the opinion of pretty much every English or Scottish royalist you'll care to meet.

it's an upsetting fact we feel....maybe you don't agree, thats fine, you are entitled to your opinions, but considering the size of the Irish-American community in the US, can you not blame a lot of English people for feeling this way, especially when they were bombed the crap out of throughout the 70's, 80's and early 90's, the British public didnt annex northern ireland, but they were the ones who were bombed.

You see, even if you can prove that the US does not fund irish terrorism, it's community is so large and it fails to stop the fund-raising of people like Gerry Adams which, in most people's books makes em an accessory to terrorism.

As I say, I think both the republican and loyalist terrorists are scum, both of them, but it is a very, very popular view over here, we see the US as an allie, but then we see the parades, the fund-raising, the Irish-American political power, and it feels like a bit of a kick in the teeth, especially since this war on terror......seriously, it's a popular view.

 

[I think not]

Well known "facts" in them parts Daz?

I said provide tangible irrefutable facts the IRA and the Fenians were funded by the US government.

If you have no links, cite a book, I'll buy it.

I want facts, not myths.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

Well known "facts" in them parts Daz?

I said provide tangible irrefutable facts the IRA and the Fenians were funded by the US government.

If you have no links, cite a book, I'll buy it.

I want facts, not myths.

You know they fund-raise big time in places like Boston and New York, I could probably get you some statistical information on how much money they raise, but you and I both know this to be true. Although I did liberally sprinkle the word "fact" about a bit there, the word "lore" would probably suit better.

but IF the US doesnt fund them, or allow for easy access to funding doors opening, where do YOU think they financed all the bombings then?, the republic of ireland was very poor during the '80s.

 

[Colpy]

You know they fund-raise big time in places like Boston and New York, I could probably get you some statistical information on how much money they raise, but you and I both know this to be true. Although I did liberally sprinkle the word "fact" about a bit there, the word "lore" would probably suit better.

but IF the US doesnt fund them, or allow for easy access to funding doors opening, where do YOU think they financed all the bombings then?, the republic of ireland was very poor during the '80s.

There is a BIG difference etween the IRA being funded by US government (which it most emphatically NEVER has been) and the IRA being funded by Irish Catholic immigrants to the USA, who live safe but are often rabid in their support of "the Cause".

The Fenian invasion of Canada here in New Brunswick in (I believe) December of 1866 was prevented when US forces arrested the leaders and detained their men in Maine. This was a US gov't that was no friend of British North America, as we had supported the Confederacy in the Civil War, which had ended a mere year before.

So much for US gov't support of the Fenians.

 

[sanctus]

The IRA are funded by the US, it's a commonly known fact in these parts mate, it's not my opinion, but the opinion of pretty much every English or Scottish royalist you'll care to meet.
.

It may be commonly believed, but such a belief does not automatically make it a "fact". Many people believe many things that are not true.

Many members of my family living in Quebec, for example, believe that the British government is funding the federalist position on Quebec in this country in order to suppress the French-Canadians. This does not, obviously, make it so because a group of Vaillancourt's in Quebec believe it to be so.

It is true that many Americans of Irish descent provide money to the IRA, but this is on a private basis. Lots of other Americans send money to pro-Israeli groups as well. The American government does not supply money to the IRA terrorists.It is simply not in their interest to do so.

I am not a lover of American imperialism and their government's foreign policy, but let's not fall victim to blaming them for every evil on the planet. The IRA exists quite nicely with its own methods of fund-raising without needing funds from the American government.

 

[BitWhys]

As a point of interest to some, the Fenians weren't quite finished with their Northern adventures after New Brunswick. Once released, several of their leaders and more of their followers were courted in New York by western interests and eventually made their way South of Manitoba. In agreement with, basically in service of, the Southern government powers of the day, they planned to mount what became a rather anemic assault on the new province. By that time the Red River Settlement was no longer under the control of Louis Riel who even though more or less already in exile, in a little known episode, promised Lieutenant-Governor Archibald he'd ensure the Metis would not join the Fenian assault, himself joined in leading troops and marched out to meet what little forces did raid from the Dakotas, as requests for support from Ottawa were not yet forthcoming. Even after all the trouble inattention had caused in the first place, MacDonald didn't really seem to get it yet.

Archibald and Riel almost started a riot when they shook hands afterward during the celebrations.

 

[sanctus]

but IF the US doesnt fund them, or allow for easy access to funding doors opening, where do YOU think they financed all the bombings then?, the republic of ireland was very poor during the '80s.

So, you are suggesting, if I am understanding this correctly, that the USA is somehow responsible for the arms the IRA has??

 

[RomSpaceKnight]

To be honest, this irritates me, the feinians or any irish republicans calling the English "imperialists", because frankly, their ancestors spent a hell of a lot of time trying to colonise England, wales and scotland you know?...they (the irish scotti tribe) succeded in scotland, they kidnapped a welshman who went on to become st. Patrick and irrited continued to invade, raid and pilage the coast of England for hundreds of years........before we even considered colonising them.

Yes, the Irish were ferocious raiders of the other British isle. But that was not a concerted plan of conquest by a recognized goverment. The Normans I believe attempted the first planned conquest of Ireland. Rule of Ireland by England was imperialistic. Sometimes I think that the English treated the Irish worse than they treated blacks. Do you know why the Irish dance with their arms at their sides? Because the English made it against the law to dance a fling your arms about in celebration of Irish nationalism. This way if an English spy looked in your window he could not report you.

My reply indicated that in my opinion the Fenians were religious/nationalistic fanatics. Is being called Imperialistic any worse.

Further I am English. My family emigrated to Canada in 1969. I am still fiercely proud of being an Englishman. The inhumane treatment of the Irish by the English is a dark smear on our history but does not justify the bombing campaigns of the IRA during the 70's, 80's and 90's. Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

Yes, the Irish were ferocious raiders of the other British isle. But that was not a concerted plan of conquest by a recognized goverment. The Normans I believe attempted the first planned conquest of Ireland. Rule of Ireland by England was imperialistic. Sometimes I think that the English treated the Irish worse than they treated blacks. Do you know why the Irish dance with their arms at their sides? Because the English made it against the law to dance a fling your arms about in celebration of Irish nationalism. This way if an English spy looked in your window he could not report you.

My reply indicated that in my opinion the Fenians were religious/nationalistic fanatics. Is being called Imperialistic any worse.

Further I am English. My family emigrated to Canada in 1969. I am still fiercely proud of being an Englishman. The inhumane treatment of the Irish by the English is a dark smear on our history but does not justify the bombing campaigns of the IRA during the 70's, 80's and 90's. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Very true, I know the Anglo-saxons spent a hell of a long time trying to colonise ireland..but as I say, it is incredibly complicated, much mroe complicated thn a lot of irish nationalists (who strangley are not in ireland at all but America) will have you believe.

And if by way of suggesting that the US allows the irish-american community to fund raise in the US, while being fully aware that this isnt going to be used to buy new schools, but indeed new mortar and semtex....yes your damn right...how can you POSSIBLY have a war on terror if you allow your own citizens to fund raise for terrorists?.

 

[RomSpaceKnight]

It is my fondest hope that the "Troubles" are now over. If the criminal element and Protestant radicals can be reigned in I think there is a very good chance of peace breaking out.