| View Poll Results: So how should the July 20th conspirators be acknowledged? | |||
| As Heros? |    | 4 | 80.00% |
| Treated the same (recognized but not given credit for actions) |    | 1 | 20.00% |
| As Traitors |    | 0 | 0% |
| Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll | |||
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838 
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
January 23rd, 2006, 09:25 AM
The July 20 Plot was a failed coup d'état which involved an attempt to assassinate Adolf Hitler. It was initiated on July 20, 1944, by officers of the Wehrmacht and other bodies. The leader of the plot was Oberst (Colonel) Claus von Stauffenberg. Others who participated in the plot include General Ludwig Beck, Carl Goerdeler, Alfred Delp, Lieutenant Colonel Robert Bernardis, Carl Szokoll, Count Hans-Jürgen von Blumenthal, Adam von Trott zu Solz, Gottfried von Bismark, Princess Marie Vassiltchikov. Scores of others, including Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel and Günther von Kluge, may have been involved in the plot, and in any event were forced to commit suicide because of it.
The plan required Stauffenberg to place a time bomb near the seat of Hitler at the Wolfsschanze (Wolf's Lair) headquarters in Rastenburg, East Prussia, and then immediately travel to Berlin to command the troops of the uprising. A new government had already been formed, with Beck as Head of State (although most of the plotters hoped for a restoration of the German monarchy under the Hohenzollerns at some point in the future), and Goerdeler as Chancellor. The military plans for the coup were known as Operation Valkyrie which was ostensibly a plan for allowing the military recovery of Berlin assuming a takeover by slave laborers. This cover allowed coup plotters to plan troop deployments before the actual coup.
However, due to unexpected circumstances, Hitler survived the bombing. Due to construction work and the heat of the day, the meeting at which Hitler was to have been killed took place above ground rather than in a bunker. Moreover, Stauffenberg could arm only one of the two bombs, and placed the armed one in the briefcase. Stauffenberg successfully managed to get next to Hitler, telling him that his hearing had been damaged during the war. Hitler accepted this, and Stauffenberg stood next to him. However, Hitler was shielded from the blast by the heavy conference table because a general moved the briefcase containing the bomb. Although four people were killed and almost all present were injured, Hitler was injured only lightly. Stauffenberg only learned of the failure later in Berlin.
Assuming Hitler was dead, Stauffenberg and Haeften flew to Berlin to meet up with their fellow conspirators in the Bendlerblock. Due to a misunderstanding, General Friedrich Olbricht did not launch Operation Valkyrie directly after the attempted assassination. Thus, the coup could only be set in motion four hours later, when Stauffenberg arrived.
In the course of the uprising, conspirators failed to win control over radio stations, therefore the news that Hitler had survived could not be suppressed. Reserve army troops in Berlin, which had carried out Stauffenberg's orders at the beginning, would soon refuse to continue doing so, causing the coup to collapse.
The plot ringleaders, Oberst Claus von Stauffenberg, General Friedrich Olbricht, Oberst Albrecht Mertz von Quirnheim and Leutnant Werner von Haeften were caught in the late evening and shot by firing squad in the courtyard of the Bendlerblock (War Ministry), although many, including Hitler, believed that the quick trials and executions were intended to quickly silence the coup plotters so that they would not implicate others. Hitler went on to instigate the purging and execution of nearly 5,000 known opponents of his regime, some of whom were tortured to death.
In modern Germany, the resistance fighters are honoured.
The latter half of the 1967 movie The Night of the Generals deals with the failed July 20 Plot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_20_Plot
Now with the July Plot, it seemed to have a ton of general's, diplomats, and administrators for it.
Most had their own reasons for opposing Hitler.
So what do you think, should they be treated as heros, as it stands, or as traitors?
The July 20 Plot was a failed coup d'état which involved an attempt to assassinate Adolf Hitler. It was initiated on July 20, 1944, by officers of the Wehrmacht and other bodies. The leader of the plot was Oberst (Colonel) Claus von Stauffenberg. Others who participated in the plot include General Ludwig Beck, Carl Goerdeler, Alfred Delp, Lieutenant Colonel Robert Bernardis, Carl Szokoll, Count Hans-Jürgen von Blumenthal, Adam von Trott zu Solz, Gottfried von Bismark, Princess Marie Vassiltchikov. Scores of others, including Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, Field Marshal Erwin Rommel and Günther von Kluge, may have been involved in the plot, and in any event were forced to commit suicide because of it.
The plan required Stauffenberg to place a time bomb near the seat of Hitler at the Wolfsschanze (Wolf's Lair) headquarters in Rastenburg, East Prussia, and then immediately travel to Berlin to command the troops of the uprising. A new government had already been formed, with Beck as Head of State (although most of the plotters hoped for a restoration of the German monarchy under the Hohenzollerns at some point in the future), and Goerdeler as Chancellor. The military plans for the coup were known as Operation Valkyrie which was ostensibly a plan for allowing the military recovery of Berlin assuming a takeover by slave laborers. This cover allowed coup plotters to plan troop deployments before the actual coup.
However, due to unexpected circumstances, Hitler survived the bombing. Due to construction work and the heat of the day, the meeting at which Hitler was to have been killed took place above ground rather than in a bunker. Moreover, Stauffenberg could arm only one of the two bombs, and placed the armed one in the briefcase. Stauffenberg successfully managed to get next to Hitler, telling him that his hearing had been damaged during the war. Hitler accepted this, and Stauffenberg stood next to him. However, Hitler was shielded from the blast by the heavy conference table because a general moved the briefcase containing the bomb. Although four people were killed and almost all present were injured, Hitler was injured only lightly. Stauffenberg only learned of the failure later in Berlin.
Assuming Hitler was dead, Stauffenberg and Haeften flew to Berlin to meet up with their fellow conspirators in the Bendlerblock. Due to a misunderstanding, General Friedrich Olbricht did not launch Operation Valkyrie directly after the attempted assassination. Thus, the coup could only be set in motion four hours later, when Stauffenberg arrived.
In the course of the uprising, conspirators failed to win control over radio stations, therefore the news that Hitler had survived could not be suppressed. Reserve army troops in Berlin, which had carried out Stauffenberg's orders at the beginning, would soon refuse to continue doing so, causing the coup to collapse.
The plot ringleaders, Oberst Claus von Stauffenberg, General Friedrich Olbricht, Oberst Albrecht Mertz von Quirnheim and Leutnant Werner von Haeften were caught in the late evening and shot by firing squad in the courtyard of the Bendlerblock (War Ministry), although many, including Hitler, believed that the quick trials and executions were intended to quickly silence the coup plotters so that they would not implicate others. Hitler went on to instigate the purging and execution of nearly 5,000 known opponents of his regime, some of whom were tortured to death.
In modern Germany, the resistance fighters are honoured.
The latter half of the 1967 movie The Night of the Generals deals with the failed July 20 Plot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_20_Plot
Now with the July Plot, it seemed to have a ton of general's, diplomats, and administrators for it.
Most had their own reasons for opposing Hitler.
So what do you think, should they be treated as heros, as it stands, or as traitors?
Hall of Fame Member
Posts: 10,505 
Location: The Evil Empire
Location: The Evil Empire
January 23rd, 2006, 09:49 AM
Quoting
Good question. I wonder how you would consider a revolt against Hussein, or the insurgents preferring Hussein over a free Iraq.
So what do you think, should they be treated as heros, as it stands, or as traitors?
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
January 23rd, 2006, 09:53 AM
Now, with the insurgents, not all of them want Saddam back in power. I am sure some want to take hold of power themselves, however, you got to know what a free iraq would represent.
Torture practices, are the same now as they were under Saddam.
There are squads of Sunni and ****e militias who go around kidnapping people and leaving their bullet ridden bodies in the street.
If that is freedom, I am kind of scared.
Quote:
Now a revolt against Hussein, by people all by themselves and not puppets to any foreign influence, western or Islamic, I would totally support it.
Good question. I wonder how you would consider a revolt against Hussein, or the insurgents preferring Hussein over a free Iraq.
Now, with the insurgents, not all of them want Saddam back in power. I am sure some want to take hold of power themselves, however, you got to know what a free iraq would represent.
Torture practices, are the same now as they were under Saddam.
There are squads of Sunni and ****e militias who go around kidnapping people and leaving their bullet ridden bodies in the street.
If that is freedom, I am kind of scared.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
January 23rd, 2006, 02:22 PM
1) they failed
2) Most had blood on their hands and participated on activities that Hitler endorsed. Killing civilians, etc, etc.
3) And some wanted an authortative regime, probably as bad as Hitler, while others, including Rommel wanted a social democracy.
So I feel they should be treated as they are now, they are acknowledged for their effort to try to bump off Hitler, whatever their reason.
Quote:
I agree they are good guys. But should they be treated as heros, because
If they attempted to assassinate Hitler, wouldn't they be good guys?
1) they failed
2) Most had blood on their hands and participated on activities that Hitler endorsed. Killing civilians, etc, etc.
3) And some wanted an authortative regime, probably as bad as Hitler, while others, including Rommel wanted a social democracy.
So I feel they should be treated as they are now, they are acknowledged for their effort to try to bump off Hitler, whatever their reason.
