Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 3,786 
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
January 18th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Well let's try another figure in history. He has his fanatic supporters on the fare left to this day but many more on the left right and centre can't stand the guy.
Here's a small bare basic on his history. He was a member of the Social Democrats in Russia, and supported the minority in the party which went against Lenin. Later he switched sides. He was seen as a great military leader and extremely left wing. He also saw the problem's in the Communist party, such as Stalin and tried to make sure Stalin would not rise to power (yeah that worked well for him).
He went against the New Economic Plan which was a democratization of the new soviet union and a return to limited capitalism which Lenin wanted. Stalin used this opritunity to side with the NEP supporters and removed him as a leftist deviant. Later Stalin supported the leftists in the party and removed the NEP supporters, effectly leaving behind "communists" who were... well "Stalinists". Trotsky wrote how the Soviet union would fall. Basically what Orwell said in Animal farm. That the Party would become the new capitalist class and become corrupted and act the same way. Of course this is in serveral books and I'm just dumbing it down (a lot). Anyhow he said the Soviet union would either collasp from the inside or a real workers revolution would happen to bring about real communism.
In a sence what he said happend, with the communist party turning into a party of careerists, burocrats and pretty much capitalists. In a sence he was write about the soviet union and predicked the demise better then anyone else.
Unlike Orwell who was a social democrat or democratic socialist, Leon Trotsky was a committed Marxist. Some say a visionist other say a terrorist. I think few could argue during the civil war Trotsky was brutal... but judging him by the time's..... very few wern't brutal during this time.
Terrorist, Freedom fighter, visionary, or just plan stupid...
Remember, Stalins famous line... "The fools gave me what I wanted, they gave me the party"
Pretty much Trotsky had the pilot buro give Stalin the job of General Secratary to keep Stalin busy with paper work and keep him out of trouble........ ..... ..... ..... .....
Well let's try another figure in history. He has his fanatic supporters on the fare left to this day but many more on the left right and centre can't stand the guy.
Here's a small bare basic on his history. He was a member of the Social Democrats in Russia, and supported the minority in the party which went against Lenin. Later he switched sides. He was seen as a great military leader and extremely left wing. He also saw the problem's in the Communist party, such as Stalin and tried to make sure Stalin would not rise to power (yeah that worked well for him).
He went against the New Economic Plan which was a democratization of the new soviet union and a return to limited capitalism which Lenin wanted. Stalin used this opritunity to side with the NEP supporters and removed him as a leftist deviant. Later Stalin supported the leftists in the party and removed the NEP supporters, effectly leaving behind "communists" who were... well "Stalinists". Trotsky wrote how the Soviet union would fall. Basically what Orwell said in Animal farm. That the Party would become the new capitalist class and become corrupted and act the same way. Of course this is in serveral books and I'm just dumbing it down (a lot). Anyhow he said the Soviet union would either collasp from the inside or a real workers revolution would happen to bring about real communism.
In a sence what he said happend, with the communist party turning into a party of careerists, burocrats and pretty much capitalists. In a sence he was write about the soviet union and predicked the demise better then anyone else.
Unlike Orwell who was a social democrat or democratic socialist, Leon Trotsky was a committed Marxist. Some say a visionist other say a terrorist. I think few could argue during the civil war Trotsky was brutal... but judging him by the time's..... very few wern't brutal during this time.
Terrorist, Freedom fighter, visionary, or just plan stupid...
Remember, Stalins famous line... "The fools gave me what I wanted, they gave me the party"
Pretty much Trotsky had the pilot buro give Stalin the job of General Secratary to keep Stalin busy with paper work and keep him out of trouble........ ..... ..... ..... .....
jimmoyer
Posts: 4,993 
Location: Winchester Virginia
Location: Winchester Virginia
January 19th, 2006, 12:07 AM
Remember Kerensky ?
That was that short moment in time when
Russia had a working parliamentary democracy,
unwittingly destroyed by Trostky as he preferred
to jostle with the coming powers to be.
Only to meet his demise, his assassination in Mexico
City. Interesting place for him to die.
Remember Kerensky ?
That was that short moment in time when
Russia had a working parliamentary democracy,
unwittingly destroyed by Trostky as he preferred
to jostle with the coming powers to be.
Only to meet his demise, his assassination in Mexico
City. Interesting place for him to die.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 3,786
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
January 19th, 2006, 01:15 AM
Unfortunitly Kerensky is merely a footnote in history. Many forget that the provisional government was Democratic socialist mostly, with monarchist and conservative support.
Quoting
Kerensky... *sighs* as a social democrat how couldn't I. Most of the none Bolshavic left wing went over to the white government.
Remember Kerensky ?
That was that short moment in time when
Russia had a working parliamentary democracy,
unwittingly destroyed by Trostky as he preferred
to jostle with the coming powers to be.
Only to meet his demise, his assassination in Mexico
City. Interesting place for him to die.
That was that short moment in time when
Russia had a working parliamentary democracy,
unwittingly destroyed by Trostky as he preferred
to jostle with the coming powers to be.
Only to meet his demise, his assassination in Mexico
City. Interesting place for him to die.
Unfortunitly Kerensky is merely a footnote in history. Many forget that the provisional government was Democratic socialist mostly, with monarchist and conservative support.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 3,786
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
January 19th, 2006, 03:14 AM
Anyhow any General, Revolutionary, whatever could be considered a murderer. The Whites (social democrats, democratic socialists, monarchist and conservatives) and the Reds were known for there murderer's, cicil wars are rarely, civil.
Though he did put down a few socialist workers protests in..... I forget the city... I'll have to look that up.
Quoting
Didn't know that...
Trotsky was a murderer.
He wasn't nearly as much of a murderer as Stalin, so I guess it is a relative thing.
Did you know he was in jail in Halifax, Nova Scotia?
He wasn't nearly as much of a murderer as Stalin, so I guess it is a relative thing.
Did you know he was in jail in Halifax, Nova Scotia?
Anyhow any General, Revolutionary, whatever could be considered a murderer. The Whites (social democrats, democratic socialists, monarchist and conservatives) and the Reds were known for there murderer's, cicil wars are rarely, civil.
Though he did put down a few socialist workers protests in..... I forget the city... I'll have to look that up.
