The truth about ancient Egypt

Blackleaf

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Tyrannical god-kings, feudal divisions, poisonings, treason – many of our
 long-held beliefs about ancient Egypt are based on misunderstandings 
and skewed interpretations...

The truth about ancient Egypt




Tyrannical god-kings, feudal divisions, poisonings, treason – many of our
 long-held beliefs about ancient Egypt are based on misunderstandings 
and skewed interpretations. John Romer, author of a new book exploring 1,000 years of Egyptian history from the construction of the Great Pyramid to the collapse of the Middle Kingdom, talks to Matt Elton about why we need to rethink how we view the world’s first nation state

This interview was first published in the February 2017 issue of BBC World Histories Magazine, on sale now




Tuesday 24th January 2017
John Romer
BBC History Magazine


A tomb relief from Egypt’s 5th dynasty depicts the collection of tithes. “Most other histories extract information from largely irrelevant things, such as bits of literature or poetry, and pretend that they 
are history. I don’t: I go for facts on the ground,” says John Romer. (Getty Images)


How have we misunderstood this period of 
Egyptian history?


I think virtually all of ancient Egypt has been misunderstood. Fundamentally, our understanding has been based on four 
key influences: the Bible; the ancient Greeks; the work of 19th-century French scholar Jean-François Champollion; 
and then, into the 20th century, German historians.

Champollion laid down the terms with which we discuss ancient Egypt – kings, country, courtiers, nobles, peasants, priests and soldiers – at a time when Europeans had a very strong idea about what those terms meant. It was a time of revolution in Europe, when ‘nation’ was a hot topic in France, but the fact that Champollion and some of his contemporaries translated it back to ancient Egypt was barking mad. After all, ancient Egypt wasn’t a place but, instead, a culture – in the same way that tribal peoples don’t have a dotted line around the edge of their land.

Worse than Champollion were the ‘great geniuses’ that interpreted the grammar and logic of the Egyptian language. They were a bunch of what we would call hard-rightwingers: not all of them were Nazis, but many were very active in that movement. They thought history was a science and, therefore, pure – but anyone who thinks history writing is a science is crazy. Those researchers wrote many of the books still used in modern western universities, which are full of their prejudices.

How are those prejudices manifested?

The idea that pharaohs were worshipped as all-powerful gods, for instance, is just plain silly. Translated ancient Egyptian letters show us that the relationship between a pharaoh and 
his courtiers was very far from that between a god and his worshippers. But the idea of an all-powerful god was very common at the time that these books were written in the early 20th century, so it became an important concept when this history was being laid down.

The problems extend beyond that, too, to ideas of conflict inside ancient Egypt between priests, farmers and soldiers – 
the three divisions of classical European society. It’s yet to be established that such a feudal division actually existed in pharaoh-land, and there was no military cult in ancient Egypt at all. The whole thing is very wrong, and gave politicians an easy exemplar of society for their own horrid purposes.

Most histories of the Old Kingdom [in the third millennium BC] assume that the ancient Egyptians never changed. They took parallels from one period and dumped it back to another 1,000 years earlier or later. And we know virtually nothing at all about the personalities of ancient Egyptians. 
The only way we understand their personalities is as seen through the eyes of the ancient Greeks, a bunch of old Nazis, and a lot of dreadful popular television in which people run around with blazing torches setting fire to each other.


A pharaoh is depicted alongside the tree of life in an ancient relief in the Great Hypostyle Hall of the temple of Karnak near Luxor. “The idea that pharaohs were worshipped as all-powerful gods is just plain silly,” argues John Romer. (Getty Images)


There was a gap in the construction of monuments 
in the period between the building of the pyramids 
and temples at Thebes (now Luxor), wasn’t there?

There was indeed a remarkable period, a kind of hiatus, during which the ancient Egyptians stopped building monuments. 
It’s been described as a time of murder and starvation, but we know that wasn’t the case because the graveyards of the period show a people who were just as fit and well as at any other time. Graves had actually become richer, because people no longer had to build monuments for their king.

So what caused that hiatus?

Most other histories extract information from largely irrelevant things, such as bits of literature or poetry, and pretend that they’re history. I don’t: I go for facts on the ground. What those show is that, during the Old Kingdom, around 2500 BC, 
after the four great pyramids had been built, the kings laid back a bit. All of the resources that had previously gone into building truly colossal pyramids at Giza and Dahshur were used instead to build more modest royal pyramids, along 
with hundreds of splendid tombs for governors and courtiers with mortuary cults of their own. So, about 300 years after the Great Pyramids were finished, not only were pyramids still being built by the court but it also had centuries of funerary cults to support. A large number of families were connected to each of these monuments, so the court had become very big.

At the same time, the level of the Nile was gradually dropping. It happened so slowly that it wouldn’t have been noticeable in a single lifespan, but modern archaeology shows the river level fell by several metres over the course of centuries. That meant the amount of crops grown also decreased.

Those factors combined and a tipping point was reached: ancient Egyptian society no longer had the resources to make such great monuments. That doesn’t mean that people were starving, or poor, or fighting – simply that they didn’t have 
the resources to build huge pyramids.


This inscribed papyrus, found near the Red Sea and the oldest known example of its kind, details the building of Khufu’s Great Pyramid. (Alamy)

What happened next?


From around 2150 BC, the kingdom was gradually reborn – and it really was a renaissance. A group of local governors from Thebes took control of Egypt; we don’t know how or why, but they remade the pharaonic state in a new way. It was the most beautiful period in all of Egyptian history, and the first time the ancient Egyptians looked back at what they’d done, picked the elements they wanted, and used them to rebuild the state.

One of the most touching and remarkable things that has been uncovered during recent research is the tremendous effort to which the ancient Egyptians went to do this, sending expeditions across the Sahara and boats down to Ethiopia. These forays often weren’t ordered for practical purposes, but instead for things wanted for the rituals of the court. That was what the state was essentially all about – ritual and ceremony, and it shows us the character of ancient Egypt.

Why has there been such a wealth of discoveries about the periods of the Old and Middle Kingdom recently, and what have we learned?

An important factor is that, in the past 30 years, Egyptologists have been able to leave the Nile valley and work in other parts of Egypt where they couldn’t before due to security concerns.

Wonderful sites have been found on or near the Red Sea coast. One, at Wadi al-Jarf, dates from the time of Khufu, builder of the Great Pyramid. It may be the oldest port in the world, with a harbour and anchors and who knows what else. Before its discovery nobody even knew that ancient Egyptians 
of the time had sea-going boats. And when researchers started 
to look into the hills behind the port, they found caves that had been excavated for use as chandleries by the ancient Egyptians.

These caves are full of extraordinary things, but even more amazing is that the ancient Egyptians had sealed the doors with big blocks of stone – similar to those used in the Great Pyramid. This site provides the only example of how such blocks were moved to make that pyramid: they were slid along using beams of wood on slick mud. That is a remarkable thing in itself.

More than that, when the researchers moved two of these blocks apart, a great wad of papyrus fell out from between them – nothing less than the oldest inscribed papyrus in 
the world, bearing the name of Khufu. It’s perfectly written: the guy who wrote it had obviously composed thousands of such documents. It’s a list of stone deliveries made to the Great Pyramid at Giza by a boat captain named Merer, who was delivering stone from one side of the Nile to the other. They were at the Red Sea because it was part of the same supply system. The port was used to ship copper from Sinai across 
the Red Sea and then on across the desert to the Nile valley.

Not only does this document give an exact list of how 
many stones this captain supplied, but it also tells us that quite a famous man, Ankh-haf, whose tomb is at Giza, was in charge at this harbour. This is amazing because it’s the first time he’s been identified as being in charge of aspects of the Great Pyramid’s construction. Suddenly, we know something about how it was made that we never knew before. It’s all real stuff – not just fairy tales from slightly dubious history books.


The ‘Khufu ship’ 
found at Giza. Ancient Egyptians travelled across the Levant to obtain goods for rituals. (Photo by Elizabeth Romer)

How did ancient Egypt influence the wider world?

The entire western world is touched by ancient Egypt. It was what we would now call a religious state, although they wouldn’t have understood that definition. And it continues to be influential to this day – in the way in which taxes in the United Kingdom are collected in the name of the queen, for instance, or in how, when Donald Trump was elected president of the United States, he was honoured with tradition and ceremony to show that a different aura had descended upon him. The idea of sacredness in the ceremony of leaders is essentially what was happening in the Middle Kingdom.

How did these influences continue into later centuries?


A few years ago I was investigating the Byzantine civilisation, reading about the elaborate rituals with which its emperors were put on the throne. The ceremonies sounded just like 
those of the pharaohs of Egypt, which I thought was weird – 
until I realised that the obvious connection was the Bible.

What you read there about Moses and the pharaoh, or the idea of the court and the sacredness of God, is what connects ancient Egypt to the Bible, and then to the modern west.

Take the coronation ceremony in the UK, for instance: 
the new monarch is wrapped in a cloak and anointed with oil. This is basically what the princes of the Lebanon did to show their fealty to the pharaohs. Indeed, at a dig in Lebanon, researchers found a little cask that had held some oil from the pharaohs and a sceptre with which the leaders were invested. So the aura of sacredness is the same – although of course, the ritual was reinvented in the 19th century to include references to an area of land and a flag, and relabelled ‘patriotism’.

How should your book change people’s views 
of ancient Egyptian culture?


I’d like it to act as a bridge between the fascination that people have for ancient Egypt and the rubbish histories of war and poisonings and treason that we read and watch so often 
today. I’d like to open readers’ eyes to the real stories behind the beautiful things made by the people of that culture. 
People look into the eyes of Tutankhamun’s golden mask, 
for instance, and have this idea of a people cowering under 
the lash of wicked pharaohs. I would like those people to 
have more of an understanding of what ancient Egyptian 
art actually tells us: that on the whole they were peaceable, highly talented people who were 
well satisfied with their lot.



John Romer is an Egyptologist, broadcaster 
and writer. His latest book is A History of Ancient Egypt, Volume 2: From the Great Pyramid to the Fall of the Middle Kingdom (Allen Lane, 2016)

The truth about ancient Egypt | History Extra
 

Danbones

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Sep 23, 2015
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Before its discovery nobody even knew that ancient Egyptians 
of the time had sea-going boats
some of us knew they were sailing around the world prior to the unification pf the two egypts
( upper and lower, red crown and white)at and prior too 3000 BC.
but most people don't do facts so we leave them to their delusions
:)
menes ( our lord amen...geez its written in stone all over the place you christians lol) the first pharoah was known as the great admiral

Wonder what method they used to bend those huge tembers on that boat or if they joined several pieces together and cut out the arch. I can't see the grain pattern.

they picked the trees shaped that way and even grew the trees trained by shaping and pruning as they grew, same as later Europeans did
:)

the anhk was the same tool as the celtic cross not a religious item as the nuts believe
but then believing and knowing are two different things
get the book Ludlow - you won't be disappointed
The Golden Thread of Time [ISBN 0-9541639-0-7]

"The Navigation Instrument

This instrument can tell the time, find latitude and longitude, measure the angles of the stars, predict the solstices and equinoxes and measure the precession of the equinoxes. The instrument can also find the ecliptic pole as well as the North and South poles, it can make maps and charts, design pyramids and henges and, when it is used in combination with these observatory sites, can record and predict the cycles of nature.

What is this ancient icon that all humanity sees daily and does not recognize? It is the cross.

A form of the cross is on all Christian churches and many gravestones; it is in literature and song and can be seen hanging round the necks of the faithful all over the world. The teachers of the Christian faith use it, kneel before it, wear it as part of their raiment and yet they do not recognize it for what it is.

The cross is a maritime treasure trove of wisdom and it was likely a vital tool for constructing and designing the pyramids. Crichton has discovered the remnants of a cross hidden by the House of Amen in the Great Pyramid of Khufu at Giza. This amazing cross is capable of measuring angles to an accuracy of three arc minutes."


http://www.viewzone.com/crichton.html

the whole christian faith is a deviant pile of pooh heeped over this just to hide the real history of the planet.
but its now a done deal
they are done
:)

btw
in India Menes was known as manistu su
and here in moth america amoungst the natives he was known as MANITOU

the british are a pale imitation of the sea going egyptions
note the "faroe islands"
but I suppose right in front of their faces is to far to see
 
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Danbones

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Sep 23, 2015
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Idiot ...^

you don't see aliens in my post BL, just facts you can't argue with
so you know where you can stick you're aliens eh?
make sure they are side ways when applied
:)

Amazing Celtic Cross Leads to Discoveries of Lost Knowledge [VIDEO]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYHiWQvRosk

Published on Oct 13, 2016
What has been discovered is that the Celtic cross was a ancient mathematical measuring instrument that allows any observer, with sufficient knowledge, to find their geographical position anywhere in the world. You could say it was the world's oldest computer, certainly the working cross still is an instrument that can be used for remarkably accurate navigation, astronomy and surveying.

Research into the cross as an ancient instrument of navigation throughout history discovered that there are actual artifacts of this instrument in the Great Pyramid of Khufu at Giza, Egypt. Thus proving that pyramids all over the world could not exist without the cross and therefore the cross is older than the pyramids. This excellent research shows how the Ancient Egyptian knowledge was derived from the skills of even more ancient sea going people that crossed the Atlantic and other oceans of the world long before Christopher Columbus.

http://www.megalithicodyssey.com/symp...
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,430
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some of us knew they were sailing around the world prior to the unification pf the two egypts
( upper and lower, red crown and white)at and prior too 3000 BC.
but most people don't do facts so we leave them to their delusions
:)
menes ( our lord amen...geez its written in stone all over the place you christians lol) the first pharoah was known as the great admiral

The first pharaoh was Narmer, whose reign was 3273-2987 BC.
 

Danbones

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Sep 23, 2015
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Published on Sep 23, 2012
White Caucasian red haired mummies were found in Florida's Windover Bog. The mummies dated to be over 7000 years old.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW_qutaoYwY&t=7s

yo can't argue with some things BL
no matter what you may think
believing and knowing are two different things
and British egyptologists are amoungst the most wrong poeple on the planet

The team found that just a few hundred years later, by about 3100BC, society had transformed to one ruled by a king.
Dr Dee told the BBC World Service programme Science in Action: "The time period is shorter than was previously thought - about 300 or 400 years shorter. Egypt was a state that emerged quickly - over that time one has immense social change.
"This is interesting when one compares it with other places. In Mesopotamia, for example, you have agriculture for several thousand years before you have anything like a state."
Archaeologists believe Egypt's first king, Aha, came to power after another prominent leader, Narmer, unified the land.
New timeline for origin of ancient Egypt - BBC News
Narmer (c. 3150 BCE) was the first king of Egypt who unified the country peacefully at the beginning of the First Dynastic Period (c. 3150 - 2613 BCE). He has also, however, been cited as the last king of the Predynastic Period (c. 6000 - 3150 BCE)
(READ EM AND WEEP :)
before the rise of a king named Menes who unified the country through conquest. In the early days of Egyptology these kings were considered to be two different men. Narmer was thought to have attempted unification at the end of one period and Menes to have succeeded him,

This theory became increasingly problematic as time went by and little archaeological evidence supported Menes' existence while Narmer was well attested to in the archaeological record.The great Egyptologist Flinders Petrie (1853 - 1942 CE) claimed Narmer and Menes as the first pharaoh of the First Dynasty in that the two names designated one man: Narmer was his name and Menes an honorific.

This same understanding holds for the other pharaoh associated with Menes, Hor-Aha (c. 3100 BCE), the second king of the First Dynasty who is also said to have united Egypt under central rule. If Hor-Aha was the ruler who achieved unification of Upper and Lower Egypt, then `Menes' was simply his honorific, meaning "he who endures".

https://www.ancient.eu/Narmer/

aliens eh?

wrong buddy just plain wrong
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,430
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Wonder what method they used to bend those huge tembers on that boat or if they joined several pieces together and cut out the arch. I can't see the grain pattern.

The Khufu ship dates from circa 2500BC and was found in a pit at the foot of the tomb of Pharaoh Khufu - or the Great Pyramid of Giza as we call it.

The ship was one of two rediscovered in 1954 by Kamal el-Mallakh. It was built largely of Lebanon cedar planking in the "shell-first" construction technique, using unpegged tenons of Christ's thorn. The ship was built with a flat bottom composed of several planks, but no actual keel, with the planks and frames lashed together with Halfah grass, and has been reconstructed from 1,224 pieces which had been laid in a logical, disassembled order in the pit beside the pyramid.

It took years for the boat to be painstakingly reassembled.

It was thus identified as the world's oldest intact ship and has been described as "a masterpiece of woodcraft" that could sail today if put into water, lake and river.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khufu_ship

Published on Sep 23, 2012
White Caucasian red haired mummies were found in Florida's Windover Bog. The mummies dated to be over 7000 years old.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW_qutaoYwY&t=7s

yo can't argue with some things BL
no matter what you may think
believing and knowing are two different things
and British egyptologists are amoungst the most wrong poeple on the planet

The team found that just a few hundred years later, by about 3100BC, society had transformed to one ruled by a king.
Dr Dee told the BBC World Service programme Science in Action: "The time period is shorter than was previously thought - about 300 or 400 years shorter. Egypt was a state that emerged quickly - over that time one has immense social change.
"This is interesting when one compares it with other places. In Mesopotamia, for example, you have agriculture for several thousand years before you have anything like a state."
Archaeologists believe Egypt's first king, Aha, came to power after another prominent leader, Narmer, unified the land.
New timeline for origin of ancient Egypt - BBC News
Narmer (c. 3150 BCE) was the first king of Egypt who unified the country peacefully at the beginning of the First Dynastic Period (c. 3150 - 2613 BCE). He has also, however, been cited as the last king of the Predynastic Period (c. 6000 - 3150 BCE)
(READ EM AND WEEP :)
before the rise of a king named Menes who unified the country through conquest. In the early days of Egyptology these kings were considered to be two different men. Narmer was thought to have attempted unification at the end of one period and Menes to have succeeded him,

This theory became increasingly problematic as time went by and little archaeological evidence supported Menes' existence while Narmer was well attested to in the archaeological record.The great Egyptologist Flinders Petrie (1853 - 1942 CE) claimed Narmer and Menes as the first pharaoh of the First Dynasty in that the two names designated one man: Narmer was his name and Menes an honorific.

This same understanding holds for the other pharaoh associated with Menes, Hor-Aha (c. 3100 BCE), the second king of the First Dynasty who is also said to have united Egypt under central rule. If Hor-Aha was the ruler who achieved unification of Upper and Lower Egypt, then `Menes' was simply his honorific, meaning "he who endures".

https://www.ancient.eu/Narmer/

aliens eh?

wrong buddy just plain wrong

Aliens built the pyramids, too, using levitation technology.
 

Blackleaf

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John Romer (interviewed in that article) presented the 1994 TV series "Seven Wonders of the Ancient World". Here are all four episodes (two Wonders in each episode apart from one episode, which is solely about the pyramids)...

 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
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Did the aliens develop a system to dispose of all those Egytians poopie and the bad smell that went along with it. I'll bet there were few bbq's in those days.

Nah. They just built the Pyramids (and not just the three Giza ones) and the Sphinx.