Anti-kosher view = Antisemitic?
- Thread starter karrie
- Start date
I agree, and I've told him that quite a few time if you recall. But, he wouldn't be the first lazy consumer to be pissed and expect others to fix the problem for him.
I'm just curious where the clear line is. He hasn't actually said anything against Judaism. Yet it's where the mind leaps, obviously.
Not in the way the poster has perceived it, through the use of numerous nondescript symbols.
While I don't agree with him, it's clearly the way he's viewing it, and it strikes me as a big leap from that to antisemitism.
Awesome thread, and I'll state clearly here that I am the one that accuses krakra of anti-semitism. It's the "elephant in the living room" argument: his avoidance of anything that can be tagged as anti-semitic while complaining of being victimized by Jewish practices (specifically, a kosher food monopoly/conspiracy) screams his point loud and clear:
"Damn, but the Jews and their practices are expensive, monopolistic, and expensive."
Not a quote, mind you, but a contextually accurate subtextual paraphrase.*
How difficult could it possibly be to buy non-kosher food in a city as big as Montreal?
I honestly believe that krakra has an agenda, and he wants us to go there on his/her behalf.
Pangloss
*How's that for an indefensible semantic mouthful? I should get an award for that sentence.
- p
"Damn, but the Jews and their practices are expensive, monopolistic, and expensive."
Not a quote, mind you, but a contextually accurate subtextual paraphrase.*
How difficult could it possibly be to buy non-kosher food in a city as big as Montreal?
I honestly believe that krakra has an agenda, and he wants us to go there on his/her behalf.
Pangloss
*How's that for an indefensible semantic mouthful? I should get an award for that sentence.
- p
And see, perhaps it's my naivety, but I buy it the way he's put it, face value.
Here's where I get to extrapolate a bit.... He(?)'s immigrated, only to realize that we have 'kosher' everywhere. Religion's a much bigger deal in many countries than it is for us here, and suddenly, he's realizing he's paying for, essentially, a religious service that is of no use or sense to him. I think I might be confused and flustered by it too frankly. And in Montreal, I'd assume it's much more prevalent. His neighborhood may even be a huge contributing factor... some will be much more difficult than others to find non-kosher in. So, he's moved, food's more expensive, and all of it has labels of 'kosher' on it.
But perhaps I'm just extrapolating into a different direction than you lot. Perhaps I give people too much credit, I don't know.
But I get fatigued with the notion that religion and race can't be discussed, even in such a small a fashion as food practices, without bigotry and racism being tossed into the mix at every turn.
Here's where I get to extrapolate a bit.... He(?)'s immigrated, only to realize that we have 'kosher' everywhere. Religion's a much bigger deal in many countries than it is for us here, and suddenly, he's realizing he's paying for, essentially, a religious service that is of no use or sense to him. I think I might be confused and flustered by it too frankly. And in Montreal, I'd assume it's much more prevalent. His neighborhood may even be a huge contributing factor... some will be much more difficult than others to find non-kosher in. So, he's moved, food's more expensive, and all of it has labels of 'kosher' on it.
But perhaps I'm just extrapolating into a different direction than you lot. Perhaps I give people too much credit, I don't know.
But I get fatigued with the notion that religion and race can't be discussed, even in such a small a fashion as food practices, without bigotry and racism being tossed into the mix at every turn.
Karrie:
I'd buy that argument if there was some evidence of an effort made to find non-kosher food.
Failing that, some evidence of the actual increased cost of kosher food.
Krakra seems a little too persistent, even in his/her lack of acknowledgment of alternatives, for me to give him/her the credit that you do.
Mind you, you could also simply be a nicer person than me. . .
Pangloss
I'd buy that argument if there was some evidence of an effort made to find non-kosher food.
Failing that, some evidence of the actual increased cost of kosher food.
Krakra seems a little too persistent, even in his/her lack of acknowledgment of alternatives, for me to give him/her the credit that you do.
Mind you, you could also simply be a nicer person than me. . .
Pangloss
alliteration abounds! 
Karrie - you're right - we should keep as open a mind as possible before assigning such labels to people. We are so lucky to live in a place that is ready to leap up and take umbrage at the mere idea of racism in our presence. What a luxury that is for us - and not one to be taken lightly.
On the other hand, I do not believe it is all that difficult - even with a language barrier - to convey a clear assurance that racism is not at issue here. Without that assurance, the readers are left to use their own discernment. Apparently they have done so.
Karrie - you're right - we should keep as open a mind as possible before assigning such labels to people. We are so lucky to live in a place that is ready to leap up and take umbrage at the mere idea of racism in our presence. What a luxury that is for us - and not one to be taken lightly.
On the other hand, I do not believe it is all that difficult - even with a language barrier - to convey a clear assurance that racism is not at issue here. Without that assurance, the readers are left to use their own discernment. Apparently they have done so.
Oh pish Pangloss.... the longer you're been here, the mushier you're getting. Pretty soon you'll be an all around nice guy. You're just a thawer is all.
I didn't understand just why he was complaining so much about the cost. Heck! I'm part Scottish and don't mind paying for the quality of kosher salami,for instance. It costs more to ship it here from Montreal..no rabbis in the area. What i'm trying to say is that he is a cheap anti Semite:smile:
Karrie, "... this view (Krakra's) is not much different from the views I've heard expressed on here regarding money potentially going to christian churches or organizations in sneaky underhanded ways."
Very interesting. Krakra alleged nothing sneaky or underhanded on the part of the Jews, but you have inferred it, on your own.
This forum is soft on anti-semitism to say the least, providing a soapbox for the likes of Towney and others, a forum to promote anti-semitism. Canadian criminal prosecutors might not win a case against CC for distributing hate propaganda, but CC is in fact distributing hate propaganda. Krakra's is not such a case however.
I don't take anti-semitism lightly, and neither does the law. Why do the moderators of this forum just say yes to anti-semitism, though toleratant of the sneaky underhanded ways of the Jews? The Christians, the men, and the safe and strong can look after their own. What real man whines about male bashing? Why do you compare the way a minority is abused to the way the majority, who are strong, are abused? Don't you get it?
Very interesting. Krakra alleged nothing sneaky or underhanded on the part of the Jews, but you have inferred it, on your own.
This forum is soft on anti-semitism to say the least, providing a soapbox for the likes of Towney and others, a forum to promote anti-semitism. Canadian criminal prosecutors might not win a case against CC for distributing hate propaganda, but CC is in fact distributing hate propaganda. Krakra's is not such a case however.
I don't take anti-semitism lightly, and neither does the law. Why do the moderators of this forum just say yes to anti-semitism, though toleratant of the sneaky underhanded ways of the Jews? The Christians, the men, and the safe and strong can look after their own. What real man whines about male bashing? Why do you compare the way a minority is abused to the way the majority, who are strong, are abused? Don't you get it?
In response to Durka's comment that it's all clearly labeled....
" clearly ?????
whenthere is a small K,MK,U COR.............. on your food ,how you know that this is a koshered intended for a man represented by a rabbin who certified his food.
there is over 400 organisations who are allowed to kosher and everyone has its own label."
This was krakra's reply. Don't try to tell me he never made such an assertion.
Main Entry:Sem·ite
Pronunciation: \ˈse-ˌmīt, especially British ˈsē-ˌmīt\ Function:noun Etymology:French sémite, from Sem Shem, from Late Latin, from Greek Sēm, from Hebrew ShēmDate:1848 1 a: a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs b: a descendant of these peoples2: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language
If you insist on censorship you would very quickly fall victim to it. Who will determine what is and what is not anti-semitic when even a simple exploration of the meaning and origin of the word semitic can and is regularly painted as anti-semitism. Now if I were to call an orange an apple there would be no hesitation whatever in the members of this forum correcting me with vigourous assaults on my credentials and intelligence but when a long standing practice of misuse of the word semitic is discussed it's commonly considered the apex of discrimination and racism incarnate when in fact it's nothing more than an attempt to get the facts straight without any malice intended or otherwise. Why do we commonly apply the term incorrectly?
When and where did it's common useage begin? Why has it never been corrected?
Those are valid questions that rise from the simple misappropriation of a six letter word that has had and continues to have bearing on very important human relations.
In fact as I understand the dictionary meaning it is not correctly applied in the vernacular to either race or religion and it is perfectly within correct use of the word to consider anti-arab and anti-semite as exactly the same thing.
So how is it that we are permitted to call an orange an apple is this case alone and not be corrected? And before any of you get any ideas of painting me as rascist or Jew hating piece of dirt, I will remind you that I hate indescriminately irregardless of skin colour or religion or race. Jim does not take anti-semitism lightly but he does take a cavalier attitude with the proper meaning of words.
And JimShorts retarded conviction of the laws not taking anti-semitism lightly is laughable we have exterminated in excess of three milliom bonified semites in Iraq despite that vaunted regard for the law which plainly does not exist in fact nor in practice.
Main Entry:Sem·ite
Thankyou Juan, how the hell are ya?
DarkBeaver, being an anti-semite doesn't qualify one for anything. If you suppose that your semantical ruse will distract readers from the issues and derail them to your latest lunatic conspiracy theory while dismissing anti-semetism, you may be right, but I'm not biting.