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MHz

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
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Red Deer AB
The only glitchs are the escape clauses.

Wasn't it originally introduced to keep people in the 'seasonal jobs' positions? Without 'that incentive' they would all be looking for full-time jobs and the industry that needed lots of workers for 1/2 year would see production scaled back dramatically.
 
Twila

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
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SLM said:
Not really, most insurance is like that as well. You can pay into a LTD or life insurance but try collecting if you're not disabled or dead, so there's a qualifier, lol.
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But if you die, you're family gets the money....so long as they didn't kill you and you didn't commit suicide.

MHz said:
I am going to be so disappointed (in everything) if this still matters at that point in time.
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Could you imagine dying, finding yourself concious and then being pissed about money...I'd be trying to walk through walls and such...
 
PoliticalNick

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
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Edson, AB
MHz said:
The only glitchs are the escape clauses.

Wasn't it originally introduced to keep people in the 'seasonal jobs' positions? Without 'that incentive' they would all be looking for full-time jobs and the industry that needed lots of workers for 1/2 year would see production scaled back dramatically.
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It is an insurance an designed to meet minimum needs while between jobs if losing the job was not your fault. Seasonal workers need to find another job for the other seasons. Simple as that. The system is not meant to pro ide for a lavish lifestyle for 8 months of the year especially when some seasonal workers (fisherman for example) can make a decent years salary in that 4 to 5 months. The system should also be designed to give incentive to work so paying people 80 or 90% of their salary to sit on their azz is not the way to go. Really it is meant to keep food on the table and the lights on while you find a decent job. That is all.
 
SLM

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
3
36
London, Ontario
Praxius said:
Go between jobs and then try and apply for that EI..... you're going to be in for a surprise in regards to how much BS you have to go through and even more surprised on how much they actually give back to you and for how long.
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Again, not claiming it's a well structured insurance system, but it's not welfare. If you've never paid into EI, you can't qualify. Similar to CPP vs OAS, one is available to everyone, the other is not.

Twila said:
But if you die, you're family gets the money....so long as they didn't kill you and you didn't commit suicide.
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But my point about there being qualifiers stands.

captain morgan said:
Kinda like a tax, huh?
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Yes and no. A tax, income, sales, etc, goes into general revenue and from there to fund any and all programs funding by the government. Everyone pays tax in some way, shape or form, everyone benefits from government sponsored programs. (Without getting into the relative worth of some programs over the other).

Someone who's never worked, has never paid into EI (or CPP) they cannot claim it. Anyone can claim welfare (or OAS), yes there are qualifiers (and/or clawbacks) but employers and employees have no option but to pay into a system that, over the years, has become harder and harder to collect on when needed.

PS - Self employed, while having to pay into the fund, can not claim against it
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Self-employed can now 'opt in' in order to collect on 'special benefits', like maternity leave or sick leave.
 
PoliticalNick

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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I don't think the qualifiers are out of realistic terms. To collect you must first work and pay into the pot. Then you cannot be terminated for cause or quit without cause. If you meet those criteria you are eligible. The how much you get and for how long is based upon what you paid in and the unemployment in your area. If unemployment is high in your region you can collect for a longer period. If you pay higher premiums you get more from the program. The hours required for eligibility is also based upon the unemployment rate in your area. I don't see how this is unfair.

Where it is unfair is different eligibility requirements for seasonal workers especially those who make a years wage in 4 or 5 months then don't have to meet the required hours like everyone else.
 
MHz

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
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Red Deer AB
PoliticalNick said:
Seasonal workers need to find another job for the other seasons. Simple as that. .
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There are 5M more jobs available in Canada in the summer. There are 3M jobs available in Canada in the winter.. The solution for my summer paving career was to cut seismic cut-lines in the swampy areas in the winter and the ice held the heavy equipment up and travel was speedy and effortless as long you were driving a bulldozer. There are only a limited number of jobs like that available in the winter, not enough to take care of all the summer workers. The Province would have been wiser to adjust the school years to work with the out of work season rather than the worker getting off work too late for one semester and back to work before the other semester ended so education was excluded if you wished to hold a position year after year. The extra hours worked and the ei makes the yearly income a balance between the two incomes.

PoliticalNick said:
so paying people 80 or 90% of their salary to sit on their azz .
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There is a max that is less that $1900/wk and the tax taken off that is blended with the tax taken of in the months when the income is at it's highest levels when the 'ditch-digger' is paying taxes at the same level a doctor does (yearly average) At $40,000 you begin to pay back a certain % so yearly there is a level where the State is claiming everything more or less. The $10,000 you make / month is offset by the $4,000 that is taken off just for income-tax.
 
taxslave

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Vancouver Island
captain morgan said:
Kinda like a tax, huh?

PS - Self employed, while having to pay into the fund, can not claim against it
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Self employed have the option of paying in. The hook is that you must close your company before you can collect.
Anyway the OP was about welfare, not EI. In Canada it is against freeloaders charter rights to force them to work.
 
bill barilko

bill barilko

Senate Member
Mar 4, 2009
5,883
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Vancouver-by-the-Sea
The system is not meant to provide for a lavish lifestyle for 8 months of the year especially when some seasonal workers (fisherman for example) can make a decent years salary in that 4 to 5 months. The system should also be designed to give incentive to work so paying people 80 or 90% of their salary to sit on their azz is not the way to go
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Epic cluelessness noted-EI pays 60% of one's former earnings and for no more than 6 months.
 
MHz

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
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48
Red Deer AB
taxslave said:
Self employed have the option of paying in. The hook is that you must close your company before you can collect.
Anyway the OP was about welfare, not EI. In Canada it is against freeloaders charter rights to force them to work.
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Wouldn't they be the 9 Supervisors standing around with the 10th one while they watch 2 laborers work? Fire the 9 and the task takes 3 people rather than 12.
What would their view be of how the social safetynet should operate?

taxslave said:
That is a stretch too. For most of us it is closer to 25% . at 60% I would take winters off.
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$50/wk and draft was $0.25 glass, determining factor for how severe the winter was. Smokes 2 paks/$1

taxslave said:
That is a stretch too. For most of us it is closer to 25% . at 60% I would take winters off.
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$50/wk and draft was $0.25 glass, determining factor for how severe the winter was. Smokes 2 paks/$1 (from the Rez Store) lol 'Hey Meester can you buy me some N-Babies. and nobody batted an eye. I can see why the past is the 'good old days'. If we were desentised to some thing why did we go the wrong direction and now we are overly sensitive to everything. As any body who has been water-boarded (or has chlorinated water go up their nose in a public swimming pool) there is a moment of panic which is the brain kicking in the 'kill everything within arms reach because the air I am used to breathing is suddenly no longer available and that situation needs to change, right now' type of feeling and the 'reaction' the body does is to defend it's physical space but with water up the nose the panic attack quickly goes away. If the water up the nose took away 10% of you breathing ability a reduction of 1% could trigger that same end where the body is running out of air and because the reduction is so low it does not trigger the fight/flight mechanism that has a person take the action required to bring breathing back to 100% capacity. There are enough studies done by the air force and divers and climbers about what the dangers of lowered O2 intake does where the end result is loss of consciousness. Between the start and that event the body is going to know it 'is dieing' and that would make you struggle as a natural reaction. If the 'recovery' given by the medics would include breathing in O2 then why not take the cure without having the water up the nose cause. Something like raising the O2 level in your bedroom from 20% to 23% to see if that would lessen the size of the panic attack when you get water up your nose. (the real application would be fewer panic attacks and the negative results that happen because of them) What is the O2 content of laughing gas? MSDS should say that it is only harmful if breathed in for more than 12 hours at a time. Making your bedroom air equal in O2 content to the deepest part of the Amazon is not something that would harm you in 120 days. If I am not mistaken that increase in O2 could also be accomplished by increasing the air pressure in the room so that could be something that would be used in the work-places where there are many people and that alone would tax the O2 content and a slight increase in pressure would increase the amount of air that is taken in with each breath. I assume anybody would know that when the flame of a normal candle is blue instead of yellow that you have exceeded the safety limit.

The 60% is the unemployment rate during something they call 'spring breakup'. That lasts from 30 -45 days once you get thawing temps. (if you don't stop the damage to the roads costs are 10X what they are if you stop)
 
Retired_Can_Soldier

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
11,499
699
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Alberta
SLM said:
I don't know how they do things in Australia, but I pay mandatory premiums towards EI here. Should I require it, it had better damn well be available. It's insurance, it's not welfare.
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Exactly, I have filed one claim in 35 years and that was for four months. The way I see it, they owe me money.
 
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