Insite Given Exemption By SCoC

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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When you chimed in we were discussing addicts getting their drugs through medicare.

That's not how I read it, but I see that you have some personal connections to this topic that I do not.... Kakato and LW said costs would be lower if things were legalized, and that actually ends up depending more on tax policy. But definitely if you have public corporations and businesses producing these products in open markets instead of criminal cartels, the cost of the products would be lower.

Getting it right would be legalizing pot and regulating it, but that's a whole other kettle of fish.
Yes, that is what I was asking you about. I don't think anyone who thinks it should be taken out of the criminals hands thinks it should be through medical prescriptions...or very few. Again, that wasn't how I read Kakato or LW's comments.

Many doctors are reluctant to prescribe medical marijuana, how apt do you think they would be to prescribe heroin for an addict?
And that's because the bureaucracy involved is a nightmare. In PEI I think there is now only one doctor who will right the Rx, but patients need a second doctor and have to go out of province to find one, either in NB or NS. Besides, doctors prescribe medical marijuana to treat symptoms of other illnesses. For addictions to opioids they prescribe other drugs like methadone, and patients go to clinics for that.

Those treatment clinics are one of the routes for people going through Insite's doors. Unlike the cases you mention where people use addictions services by court order, clients at Insite aren't there by court order, so all visits made to detox services originating at Insite are not in the same ball park as those that you mentioned with legal trouble.

We are busting our asses to make tobacco as difficult to get as possible. A package of cigarettes cost around 10 bucks retail. This is the result of taxes imposed to get people to quit.
Also health benefits. It's also a great way for the government to get more revenue. Gasoline, alcohol, tobacco, fill the coffers of both Provincial and the Federal governments. Like I said up above, the cost of legalizing the products would depend a great deal on taxes.

As a result of this tax on cigarettes we have a thriving underground market for cigarettes. So give your head a shake and listen to what I am saying instead of splitting hairs.
The price went up based on taxes, not the actual price from the market place...if the price comes down that's a different story altogether. That's not splitting hairs. So, this is back to where I asked you about getting things right. If we know that driving prices up increases demand for black market products, then the smart thing to do would be what?

If the Feds legalized all drugs, health care costs would skyrocket.beyond belief.
So there are a few countries that have done this. Have you actually looked at the costs against countries that did not?

Anything less is pure speculation. If you haven't looked yet I'll give you a hint to get you started. Portugal got rid of the criminal penalties for drugs. You can still get charged, there's just no jail time ever. Instead they get therapy. That is by a long shot the most liberal drug policy of any country. Kind of like what you mentioned a few pages back. Pot, cocaine, heroin, meth, no jail time, just therapy...try comparing their healthcare costs before and after. It was 2001, so there's a whole decade of data now.

That's a good start. Portugal actually has below average per capita costs for OECD countries.

We have legal drugs that are prescribed now that being sold illegally. and criminal activity is thriving. Ever heard of Hillbilly Heroin? Think that would be any different with Heroin or meth and even if it wert outright legal we'd have even more people dying on the street because this crap is poison. You wouldn't be able to build the shooting stations fast enough.
I've never heard of Hillbilly Heroin, at least not by that name. Is it dilaudids?

Anyways, no policy you can think of ever will stop all crime. That's hardly a solid basis for any new poIicy.

Insite is cost-effective, is getting people into rehab programs without court order, is reducing the risk of disease transmission, and has not lead to an increase in drug-related crime.

They walk in the door with the drugs in their possession, I cannot fathom how anybody would prefer the situation where fewer addicts are getting treated for addictions, where there are more dead bodies on the street, where first responders have a greater risk of disease transmission, and where resources are being used less effectively.

That's insanity.
 

JLM

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Tonington; And that's because the bureaucracy involved is a nightmare. In PEI I think there is now only one doctor who will right the Rx said:
A year or so ago a doctor came on the news and acknowledged that marijuana was effective at treating certain conditions but also said there are much better drugs that can more effectively treat the conditions. I would think that a sensible person would want the most effective drug available.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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Make no mistake, my animosity towards Insite is not based on wanting to 'penalize' people that have addiction problems. My focus is more squarely placed on providing services that will assist in their rehab as well as provide medical support during their 'process', supporting rehab efforts as well as after they have made an attempt to go straight.

My interpretation of Insite's present work is that it delay's the healing process.


Gather you didn't read what I posted about Insite along with the link I supplied.
 

JLM

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Gather you didn't read what I posted about Insite along with the link I supplied.

I read the link............................in part- "Part of a continuum of services
InSite was not designed to be a stand-alone facility. It's part of a continuum of care for people with addiction, mental illness and HIV/AIDS. It was designed to be accessible to injection drug users who are not well connected to health care services. Partnering with PHS Community Services Society enabled Vancouver Coastal Health to bring health services to the Downtown East Side community in a way that was more accessible and pertinent.
For people with chronic drug addiction, InSite is the first rung on the ladder from chronic drug addiction to possible recovery; from being ill to becoming well."

I'm interested to see statistics regarding how many got well.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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I read the link............................in part- "Part of a continuum of services
InSite was not designed to be a stand-alone facility. It's part of a continuum of care for people with addiction, mental illness and HIV/AIDS. It was designed to be accessible to injection drug users who are not well connected to health care services. Partnering with PHS Community Services Society enabled Vancouver Coastal Health to bring health services to the Downtown East Side community in a way that was more accessible and pertinent.
For people with chronic drug addiction, InSite is the first rung on the ladder from chronic drug addiction to possible recovery; from being ill to becoming well."

I'm interested to see statistics regarding how many got well.


There you go. That pretty much covers the objections that those that are too lazy, or too stupid to research themselves had.
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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Well. I didn't find any al Qaeda but Insite is a nice clean place with nice helpful staff and volunteers. It was quiet down there tonight. The junkies must have been at the football game because they weren't on the streets.
 

Tonington

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A year or so ago a doctor came on the news and acknowledged that marijuana was effective at treating certain conditions but also said there are much better drugs that can more effectively treat the conditions. I would think that a sensible person would want the most effective drug available.

The most effective drug to treat a condition doesn't mean it's the best choice.
 

JLM

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The most effective drug to treat a condition doesn't mean it's the best choice.

Yes and no- one does have to consider side effects, but sometimes a second drug will combat the side effects. Marijuana can have side effects too.
 

Tonington

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Yes and no- one does have to consider side effects, but sometimes a second drug will combat the side effects. Marijuana can have side effects too.

Side effects, and equally important drug interactions. It's not good practice at all to prescribe another drug to combat the side effects of the drug that is treating the condition, unless there are no alternatives.
 

wizard

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... not a lawful judgment. the supreme court of canada doesn't have the lawful authority to overturn federal government laws and policy. if the federal government wants to withhold funding from questionable, experimental operations it has every right to do so. another example of the lawyers interfering where they should just bug off and stay out of it ...
 

wizard

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Actually, it does.

Look up SCC decision re: abortion. Just for starters.
... what's abortion got to do with it? this is yet another example of the unlawful misuse of the court system for the purpose of meddling in federal government policy where it clearly doesn't have jurisdiction ...
 

CDNBear

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... what's abortion got to do with it?
Just an example of how you were wrong. There are more. Would you like to see them?

this is yet another example of the unlawful misuse of the court system for the purpose of meddling in federal government policy where it clearly doesn't have jurisdiction ...
So you think the gov't is/should be, above the law?

Interesting.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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... what's abortion got to do with it? this is yet another example of the unlawful misuse of the court system for the purpose of meddling in federal government policy where it clearly doesn't have jurisdiction ...

Do tell, what is the purpose of the Supreme Court of Canada?
 

Goober

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... not a lawful judgment. the supreme court of canada doesn't have the lawful authority to overturn federal government laws and policy. if the federal government wants to withhold funding from questionable, experimental operations it has every right to do so. another example of the lawyers interfering where they should just bug off and stay out of it ...

Did you finish Grade 3 by chance??? Or were you still shaving then?????
 

CDNBear

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Supreme Court of Canada - Strategic Direction*

Mandate

To advance the cause of justice in hearing and deciding, as the final arbiter, legal questions of fundamental importance.
More importantly...

The Court is committed to:

  • the rule of law;
  • independence and impartiality; and
  • access to justice.


And of course...

The Court's Jurisdiction

The Supreme Court of Canada is Canada's final court of appeal, the last judicial resort for all litigants, whether individuals or governments. Its jurisdiction embraces both the civil law of the province of Quebec and the common law of the other provinces and territories.
 

wizard

Time Out
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Supreme Court of Canada - Strategic Direction*

Mandate

To advance the cause of justice in hearing and deciding, as the final arbiter, legal questions of fundamental importance.
... the federal government's decision to close insite and stop handing out free dope to criminals was a good decision that was hijacked and unfairly trounced by the canadian bar ...

... dealing heroin to addicts does not advance the cause of justice, it perverts it ...
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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... the federal government's decision to close insite and stop handing out free dope to criminals was a good decision that was hijacked and unfairly trounced by the canadian bar ...

... dealing heroin to addicts does not advance the cause of justice, it perverts it ...
If you have a problem with people doing drugs, and supporting them with tax payers money, then just say so. It's a valid opinion.

You don't have to make false claims about the SCC. That's just silly.