Alberta Health Care – Some not so apparent facts

cyberclark

Electoral Member
Switzerland has compulsory health insurance, everyone is using a plan offered by the private sector, with low wage earners subsidized by the government. But all patients still pay part of the cost of their health care.

Life expectancy (Male) 79.4 years Life Expectancy (Female) 84.2 Infant Mortality/1000 live births 3.9 Obesity Rate (Male) 7.9 Obesity Rate (Female) 7.5 HC spending as a % of GDP 10.8%.

An extra 0.4% of GDP and they have an infant mortality rate 26% lower than ours, they live about two years longer than we do (this might explain all or at least part of the higher health care costs) and the rate of obesity is far lower, though I don't see that as a function of the type of health care system, as much as a societal difference.
The thing that troubles me most is "Universality" or the lack of it. In any Conservative plan I have heard or seen there is none. In fact all their plans say you have to liquidate your home and property to pay your health care bills, then, they will kick in with some very limited help.

I'll stay in the fight for a while yet.
Regards,

Switzerland has compulsory health insurance, everyone is using a plan offered by the private sector, with low wage earners subsidized by the government. But all patients still pay part of the cost of their health care.

Life expectancy (Male) 79.4 years Life Expectancy (Female) 84.2 Infant Mortality/1000 live births 3.9 Obesity Rate (Male) 7.9 Obesity Rate (Female) 7.5 HC spending as a % of GDP 10.8%.

An extra 0.4% of GDP and they have an infant mortality rate 26% lower than ours, they live about two years longer than we do (this might explain all or at least part of the higher health care costs) and the rate of obesity is far lower, though I don't see that as a function of the type of health care system, as much as a societal difference.
This lack of Universality presently has 55 million Americans without health care of any kind and another 20 million in a high state of anxiety as the Republicans look at cutting medicaid as a cost consideration.

These 55 millions are included in their GNP which would present the skew even worse for their system and better for ours.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Who cares about the American system? Canada is not rushing towards the US system...anymore than it is rushing towards the Swiss system. Honestly, there's a pathological fear of private medicine in Canada, despite the fact that any Ophthalmologist or Dentist you visit, both medical doctors, will cost you money. Medicare doesn't cover that...so what's the problem with getting an MRI from a private clinic?
 

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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Personal I'd like to get the whole world under contract for service delivery. We'd all save a bundle and it would be much easier to regulate and deliver borderless service and supply. Better overall care and quicker turn around per unit.
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
Who cares about the American system? Canada is not rushing towards the US system...anymore than it is rushing towards the Swiss system. Honestly, there's a pathological fear of private medicine in Canada, despite the fact that any Ophthalmologist or Dentist you visit, both medical doctors, will cost you money. Medicare doesn't cover that...so what's the problem with getting an MRI from a private clinic?

I'm not against doing MRI in a private Clinic. I am against putting the population at risk of loosing their homes to pay for medical bills as is the case in the US.

If you read the Journal article I have posted, you will see there is absolutely no doubt that not only Alberta but Canada is heading to a US system under the Conservatives. There is no defense for it!

Our Gross Domestic Product (DMP) spends 10.4 percent on health care and we have 100% coverage. The system they are forcing us into (US) has a DMP spending of 16.0%. and, they have 55 million Americans with no health care at all and still another 20 million Low Income Americans in terror of loosing their health care while Republicans eye Medicaid cuts.

There is absolutely no defense for what they are leading us into! It is Conservative dogma we are being forced into and in the Case of the Liberals, Ignatieff is more American than he is Canadian and has done absolutely nothing to present himself otherwise.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Who cares about the American system? Canada is not rushing towards the US system...anymore than it is rushing towards the Swiss system. Honestly, there's a pathological fear of private medicine in Canada, despite the fact that any Ophthalmologist or Dentist you visit, both medical doctors, will cost you money. Medicare doesn't cover that...so what's the problem with getting an MRI from a private clinic?
I often use Dentistry for a comparison between private and public funded systems. I pose the question " Is your present Dental Coverage 100%?; 80%?; 50%. If you were unemployed would you or or families have dental coverage? The answer is NO!'

I say again, why would any thinking Canadian go into this with their eyes open?
 

Tonington

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Our Gross Domestic Product (DMP) spends 10.4 percent on health care and we have 100% coverage.

No we don't! Prescription drugs, physiotherapy, eye care, dental care...only 70% of all health care in Canada is publicly financed.

I often use Dentistry for a comparison between private and public funded systems. I pose the question " Is your present Dental Coverage 100%?; 80%?; 50%. If you were unemployed would you or or families have dental coverage? The answer is NO!'

So how can you claim we have 100% coverage when you know we do not?

I say again, why would any thinking Canadian go into this with their eyes open?

Because a thinking Canadian can see the strawman you're building, and realizes that there are intelligent solutions that can involve more privatization while keeping funding levels for the public system as they are. A publicly funded system afterall is just like a huge insurance policy. If I'm not costing the plan anything because I use my own plan, then that frees resources for those who are.
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
No we don't! Prescription drugs, physiotherapy, eye care, dental care...only 70% of all health care in Canada is publicly financed.



So how can you claim we have 100% coverage when you know we do not?

Because a thinking Canadian can see the strawman you're building, and realizes that there are intelligent solutions that can involve more privatization while keeping funding levels for the public system as they are. A publicly funded system afterall is just like a huge insurance policy. If I'm not costing the plan anything because I use my own plan, then that frees resources for those who are.

Well the money you spend through "your plan" is included int he GNP figures as is the roughly 35% of out of pocket expenses paid by Canadians for the drugs surcharges etc and, these too are included in the GNP.

As I said before Canadians would have to be totally nuts to endorse this system; the figures and ideas are rubber.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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I have permission to publish the archive in my blog; that is why it is there. The certificates are part of the text.
What it is saying is as I published initially the Government is designing the health care based on the Oregon system.

If you don't have cash and don't have a job you don't have insurance!


So.... to support your posts here, you post links to your blog which is a copy of your posts here..... that is what you consider support?
 

petros

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Hospitals fight increase in charity care, unpaid bills

Premium content from Portland Business Journal - by Wendy Culverwell

Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 9:00pm PST - Last Modified: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01am PST
Related:

As unemployment rises, doctors at OHSU are treating more patients who don’t have insurance.

Related News

In July, Oregon Health and Science University mailed 577 financial assistance packages to patients. It’s a customary practice for patients who lack insurance and the means to pay medical bills.
By October, 752 patients requested assistance. The figure dropped in November, but the seemingly good news was tempered by the fact that November had fewer work days.​

 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
So.... to support your posts here, you post links to your blog which is a copy of your posts here..... that is what you consider support?
You seem to be wise enough not to play the brain dead thing. The article posted is out the Edmonton Journal in the year 2000. There are no links to provide. The document contains all the accreditation needed to verify it as honest and upright.

Hospitals fight increase in charity care, unpaid bills

Premium content from Portland Business Journal - by Wendy Culverwell

Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 9:00pm PST - Last Modified: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 12:01am PST
Related:

As unemployment rises, doctors at OHSU are treating more patients who don’t have insurance.

Related News

In July, Oregon Health and Science University mailed 577 financial assistance packages to patients. It’s a customary practice for patients who lack insurance and the means to pay medical bills.
By October, 752 patients requested assistance. The figure dropped in November, but the seemingly good news was tempered by the fact that November had fewer work days.​


Good links; thank you. The Oregon Health Care plan covers only those people who are destitute or near destitute in Oregon. It is not a state wide health care plan! With 55 million people in the near destitute situation in the US without any health care at all, Physicians will be doing a great deal more "free" work and will not make a dent in the demand. Cash customers come first.

All states including Oregon are looking at cutting Medicaid as a cost savings effect to cover the economic disaster.

So, we have US scenario where less and less people are being employed and in this climate most of the new jobs will not have medical coverage. (That is a fair guess on my part) Meanwhile the states are putting pressure to reduce medical spending leaving the most disadvantaged on hooks.

We can do better than that in Canada; it would be stupid in extreme and even more expensive to go the route of the US.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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you just don't seem to get it....do ya. Posting op-eds is not the same as factual back up of your contentions. Continually going on about what Oregon is doing does not translate into Alberta doing the same thing. Especially since, by your own admission, the op-ed you posted was from over 10 years ago and Alberta still is not running an "american" form of health care.
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
you just don't seem to get it....do ya. Posting op-eds is not the same as factual back up of your contentions. Continually going on about what Oregon is doing does not translate into Alberta doing the same thing. Especially since, by your own admission, the op-ed you posted was from over 10 years ago and Alberta still is not running an "american" form of health care.
Gerry! In that Jounal article the Minister of Health is telling Albertans he is going to look into the Oregon system as a working plan for Alberta. What part of that do you not get?

Alberta has a social assistance level already in effect. To get social assistance you must have liquidated your home and dispersed most of your cash. This is the same model being practiced in the US broadly. As I said above, the Capital Health Region had already produced the list of what not to cover when this article was put up.

They have already reduced coverage for seniors' meds, eyeglass prescriptions and so on. Still they say Seniors are ripping off the system which is a blatant lie.

Any money that changes accounts here comes out of consumer pockets into the balance sheets of the petroleum industry by way of still lower royalty. We are to the point of paying the oil companies to take the resource from Alberta. It is time this Government and the WRP were turfed out along with Harper and his cronies. I guess that is where my heart is at!

Ralph Klein in the same period put forward his nefarious 3rd Way idea which, was a quick move to the Oregon type system.

All this in the face of 50% higher charges to Canadians going to private health care system!

Terri Jackson, a professor in the University of Alberta’s faculty of medicine and dentistry who has a doctoral degree in health policy points out that Conservatives the world over lie through their teeth about all aspects of Health care in order privatize it all!


The average Albertan like myself has paid health care premiums for over 45 years and most of us have never used it, We still pay 30% out of pocket for services not covered by health care, while the younger generation that are statistically bigger users of hospitals are paying nothing toward their possible future health care.

I would cheerfully pay premiums like we did knowing that it is the younger generation that are big users of expensive treatments.

For example, every Albertan admitted to an institution is accurately documented. That is fact.

-Alberta is chronologically the youngest province in Canada. Of all Albertans admitted to hospital, 76.4% were under the age of 65.

-Babies under a year were the most common.

-The average age of hospitalized patients was 39.5 years with half of those being under the age of 36 years. These are not baby boomers.

-Only 10.7% are 65 years or older.

-Some 16.4% of the elderly admitted to hospital died as compared to 3.3% of other patients.

-Over half of the patients admitted to Intensive Care were younger patients who had more done to them and stayed in ICU longer, the most expensive hospital service.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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looking at something, or studying something is not the same as implementing it. I would EXPECT them to look at ALL examples before deciding what we should do to get the best bang for our buck in health care.

Ralphies 3rtd way didn't fly, did it. As a matter of fact, as you pointed out, we don't have to pay monthly premiums here. Something YOU seem to be upset about.
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
looking at something, or studying something is not the same as implementing it. I would EXPECT them to look at ALL examples before deciding what we should do to get the best bang for our buck in health care.

Ralphies 3rtd way didn't fly, did it. As a matter of fact, as you pointed out, we don't have to pay monthly premiums here. Something YOU seem to be upset about.
We don't pay monthly premiums because that would give the citizens of this province a say in their health care coverage!

Premiums into a plan gives one entitlements which, this government is doing away with! They could not stick us with private supplementary premiums if we were paying Alberta Premiums. These turkeys give nothing away! Hooped again!

Take a moment and read the whole post and comments and you will see we are at the precipice of loosing our Health Care for a more expensive system and the fact that we have no creditable opposition from the Federal Liberals is not helping!
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Location, Location
We don't pay monthly premiums because that would give the citizens of this province a say in their health care coverage!

If you say so.

When Medicare was set up, the Provinces decide if they would go with monthly premiums or cover it through sales taxes.
The idea of monthly premiums actually makes it more visible to the people, whereas coming out of sales taxes pretty much hides the cost.
 

cyberclark

Electoral Member
If you say so.

When Medicare was set up, the Provinces decide if they would go with monthly premiums or cover it through sales taxes.
The idea of monthly premiums actually makes it more visible to the people, whereas coming out of sales taxes pretty much hides the cost.
Curious that Alberta was the only province in Canada for a long time to charge health care premiums. As Stelmach said in the last election debate "We are Conservatives, not like these other guys" indicating the ND and Libs on the podium.

Here is still another link that will assist those reading in determining how deeply we are dug into Oregon's plans. The Pacific Northwest Group was founded in Oregon.