I think that Canada may be a little too "Multicultural"

[Machjo]

Anyway, I think we've quite established that Canada is still a baby in its crib, yet far too young for us to proclaim with such certainty that we truly have a fully developed culture able to stand on its own without reference to its mother-countries, thus making it laughable for us to try to define a particular national norm. A local norm, perhaps, but certainly not national. Quebec City, Edmonton and Ulukhaktok, for instance, would have such different cultural norms that a person from any of these three towns moving to any other of these three towns would find himself unable to even understand most of the locals, let alone find a job and become fully self-sufficient, without learning a whole new cultural foundation.

 

[Ariadne]

Well, seeing that Canada is not even three centuries old yet, to be fair, we can compare the nations that existed here before with their European counterparts, owing to the long history of each thus allowing each to create an independent cultural entity of its own able to stand on its own two feet, unlike French-Canadian and English-Canadian cultures.

And besides, even today the traces of empire and colonization are still evident in Canada. According to StatsCan 2006, about 15% of the population of Nunavut speak neither English nor French. Now you won't tell me there's a major immigration boom going on their I hope. In Quebec likewise, the majority of the population (asuming you travel beyond Montreal and a few French-speaking enclaves) are about as functional in English as the average Torontonian is in French. The reason for this again is that the land Canada was recently built on belonged to all kinds of nations not long ago. So naturally we're still in an evolutionary developmental stage as a baby nation. As pointed out in the poem above, English-Canadians still essentially thought of themselves as British just at the beginning of the last century. Imagine that.

Granted. When I was a child, my grandfather and I debated through letters about whether Canada has a culture. He said no, I argued that it did, partially because it was a debate, but it was a losing battle. In comparison to most other countries, Canada does not have a recognizable culture other than having some similarity to the United States (different legal, educational, political structures). Maybe we don't have a culture, but it feels like it ... particularly when we look at legal, educational, technological, medical, political, etcetera, standards. I think Canada has a clearly defined quality of life that is part of our culture, and we want to preserve it.

 

[Machjo]

Hell, a lot of those who post in these forums were alive! And, these were not new Canadians but those born in this country who were denied suffrage. We are aware of the case of women, but forget or are unaware of the others.

Then my apologies about the 'blink of an eye' comment. This kind of repulsive discrimination occurred since last we blinked.

Granted. When I was a child, my grandfather and I debated through letters about whether Canada has a culture. He said no, I argued that it did, partially because it was a debate, but it was a losing battle. In comparison to most other countries, Canada does not have a recognizable culture other than having some similarity to the United States (different legal, educational, political structures). Maybe we don't have a culture, but it feels like it ... particularly when we look at legal, educational, technological, medical, political, etcetera, standards. I think Canada has a clearly defined quality of life that is part of our culture, and we want to preserve it.

Yes, we've developed a common legal culture of sorts, mostly adopted from the British Empire (which shouldn't be surprising seeing that English Canadians just last century considered themselves British! And that was even entrenched in law in that Britons in Canada voted not in British elections but Canadian ones, and vice versa for Canadians in the UK, likewise a legal practice abandoned only a few decades ago!).

Beyond our legal culture, there is not much we really share in common as Canadians from coast to coast to coast, other than the local environment. We don't even share the most basic of glues that bind a nation together, which is language! This does not mean we as individuals do not have an individual culture of our own, or a family culture, or a local culture, or an ethnic one. But a for a national culture, though we do have one, it's strictly in the legal realm. A common national legal culture. Beyond that, French-Canadians and English-Canadians can't even read each others' literature until it's translated.

 

[Ariadne]

...or some politician with an eye toward grateful new voters did - if you want to presume

I know that women made change so that they could vote. There were five of them, no men or politicians - unless you count the women as politicians. I suppose women could have had "an eye to grateful new voters" in ensuring that they could vote so they could run for office. That makes sense. If that happened with race and religion, then there's a pattern.

 

[Spade]

There were and are those within the Canadian fabric who act on principle rather than self interest.

 

[Ariadne]

Then my apologies about the 'blink of an eye' comment. This kind of repulsive discrimination occurred since last we blinked.



Yes, we've developed a common legal culture of sorts, mostly adopted from the British Empire (which shouldn't be surprising seeing that English Canadians just last century considered themselves British! And that was even entrenched in law in that Britons in Canada voted not in British elections but Canadian ones, and vice versa for Canadians in the UK, likewise a legal practice abandoned only a few decades ago!).

Beyond our legal culture, there is not much we really share in common as Canadians from coast to coast to coast, other than the local environment. We don't even share the most basic of glues that bind a nation together, which is language! This does not mean we as individuals do not have an individual culture of our own, or a family culture, or a local culture, or an ethnic one. But a for a national culture, though we do have one, it's strictly in the legal realm. A common national legal culture. Beyond that, French-Canadians and English-Canadians can't even read each others' literature until it's translated.

I would disagree. I think there is a connection between East and West (economical at the very least). The Netherlands is an example of a country that has two official languages, just like Canada. There are also many dialects throughout the country. In the south, Dutch blends to French along the Belgian border.

There were and are those within the Canadian fabric who act on principle rather than self interest.

I suspect that's what the Famous Five did when they changed the laws to ensure that women had the right to vote ... something about principle.

 

[Machjo]

I would disagree. I think there is a connection between East and West (economical at the very least). The Netherlands is an example of a country that has two official languages, just like Canada. There are also many dialects throughout the country. In the south, Dutch blends to French along the Belgian border.

Economic interdependence does not make for a strong common cultural foundation. After all, I'm sure Vancouver trades more with Seattle than it does with Toronto. Economic interrelatedness is purely out of self-interest and by no means lays the foundation of any kind of common patriotism. Sure simply a common legal system can lay a sufficient foundation for a common patriotism (heck, we even see Euro-patriots), but such a patriotism is but a weak civic patriotism). If you want a stronger common bond than that, you need more commonality than a common law.

 

[Ariadne]

Economic interdependence does not make for a strong common cultural foundation. After all, I'm sure Vancouver trades more with Seattle than it does with Toronto. Economic interrelatedness is purely out of self-interest and by no means lays the foundation of any kind of common patriotism. Sure simply a common legal system can lay a sufficient foundation for a common patriotism (heck, we even see Euro-patriots), but such a patriotism is but a weak civic patriotism). If you want a stronger common bond than that, you need more commonality than a common law.

Every city in Canada trades through the nearest southern border because most Canadian goods, fruits and vegetables come through the southern US border. There is no significant trade through other borders, but that is being explored (and defended). Every city in the US also trades with every nearby border. That doesn't imply that each country is fragmented and devoid of a culture.

 

[Machjo]

Every city in Canada trades through the nearest southern border because most Canadian goods, fruits and vegetables come through the southern US border. There is no significant trade through other borders, but that is being explored (and defended). Every city in the US also trades with every nearby border. That doesn't imply that each country is fragmented and devoid of a culture.

Sorry, I may have misunderstood you then. I thought you were trying to say that economic interdependence makes for a solid common culture. My bad.

 

[Ariadne]

There is an economic bond in that some provinces annually give a hefty bonus to other provinces ... the country works together to remain unified. The entire country has to buy their oranges in Florida.

 

[Machjo]

There is an economic bond in that some provinces annually give a hefty bonus to other provinces ... the country works together to remain unified. The entire country has to buy their oranges in Florida.

OK, but then you're talking about legal culture, and that I think we've already establish is indeed a shared culture from coast to coast to coast. It is mandated by law. It still doesn't change the fact though that unless you know Inuktitut, you'd have a difficult time adjusting in Kugliktuk, not just because of the climate, or the geography, or the smaller population, but because you'd likely have a hard time communicating with at least some of the members of the community. You'd have an even harder time in Tadoussac because they all speak French, and with French being a major world language too, feel even less of a need to learn English, especially with no English-only speakers for 100s of miles around them.

Simple trade and common laws don't make a solid foundation for a common culture beyond a simple civic one. Remember that French-Canadians even have their own version of the national anthem, with many not knowing the English version, and with some also singing's one of Quebec's unofficial anthems, such as Gens du pays.

Just to take another example of Canada's lack of a common culture, do you know Gens du Pays? Do you know the famous Quebec poet who wrote it, Gilles Vigneault, along with his main literary influences which come not from Canada, but from Hugo, Beaudelaire, Verlaine, Ronsard, Rimbaud and others from across the pond in France. Though he is well known as a poet in Quebec and possibly in France, he's practically unheard of in English Canada. Likewise I'm sure there are plenty of famous English Canadians such as Loreena McKennitt who are barely known in Quebec except in the Anglophone parts, even though she's likely known in the UK, the US, and even Australia.

We certainly don't have a common culture beyond a civic one.

 

[Ariadne]

Law governs family traditions of marriage and children. Law governs communities, trees, developments. Culture is in many ways dictated by law.

Canadian French has undergone many changes and would be considered a dialect; a variation of the language when first introduced. French Canadians speak their own Anglicized version of the French language where "we" is pronounced "way".

If French Canadians don't want to listen to Loreena McKennitt, that doesn't mean they are not Canadian.

 

[Cannuck]

And not just in stores but I see it in neighborhoods too.

Houses all over, used to be decorated with lights and Christmas trees and you couldn't even see a house without something on it!

Now it's like maybe 3 or 4 houses.. all broke up around the street and a lot of them with nothing, and no signs of Christmas at all.

I just drove through Taber, Ab tonight. Taber is probably as white, European, Christian as you can get in this country and I would bet that less than 5% of homes have Christmas lights.

All this time I thought that people just didn't want to put up Christmas lights and now I find out it's because of the damned immigrants. The problem is worse than even you think. There's probably only one or two non white, non Christian and non European people in Taber. It truly is amazing the clout they have that two or three people can destroy the Christmas light tradition in Taber. I'm surprised Christmas lights aren't banned in Calgary this year since they elected a non Christian as mayor.

 

[Ariadne]

I just drove through Taber, Ab tonight. Taber is probably as white, European, Christian as you can get in this country and I would bet that less than 5% of homes have Christmas lights.

All this time I thought that people just didn't want to put up Christmas lights and now I find out it's because of the damned immigrants. The problem is worse than even you think. There's probably only one or two non white, non Christian and non European people in Taber. It truly is amazing the clout they have that two or three people can destroy the Christmas light tradition in Taber. I'm surprised Christmas lights aren't banned in Calgary this year since they elected a non Christian as mayor.

Is Taber an accurate reflection of Canadian culture, a redneck corn town? Corn towns are usually conscientious about wasting energy, like not keeping unnecessary lights on for decoration for a couple of weeks. Does Canadian culture promote conscientiousness about wasting energy? It does. Sounds like the culture in Taber is consistent with Canadian culture.

 

[Machjo]

Is Taber an accurate reflection of Canadian culture, a redneck corn town? Corn towns are usually conscientious about wasting energy, like not keeping unnecessary lights on for decoration for a couple of weeks. Does Canadian culture promote conscientiousness about wasting energy? It does. Sounds like the culture in Taber is consistent with Canadian culture.

Well then that would be in disagreement with the OP which sounded disappointed in the lack of electrical wastage going on... oh, sorry, I meant Christmas lights being shown.

 

[Ariadne]

There are many reasons why Christmas lights are not seen on residential properties north of Edmonton. Fifty percent of the population in Alberta is divorced. Those fifty percent are probably not hanging lights. Of the remaining fifty percent not hanging lights on the house for two weeks at the end of December, many practice religions that don't involve putting up lights - although I think it is part of Canadian culture and that newcomers to Canada should celebrate their traditions in lights, others are environmentally conscientious, and yet others simply don't climb ladders - amongst other reasons.

 

[Cliffy]

What the hell is "Canadian culture"? Stomping Tom, Celine Dion, This Hour Has Twenty Two Minutes, Little Mosque on the Prairies? What? From my perspective, most of what I see is mindless consumerism and rape and pillage of our natural resources. Our life style is dependent on the subjugation of third world peoples to produce the cheep crap that we demand to have in our shopping malls. We consume hundreds of magazines to learn all the latest chemical concoctions to try to make us look like the movie stars we worship. We are spoon fed our opinions about just about everything from religion and politics to what cereal is best for breakfast. Santa Clause came into being in a Coka Cola commercial. Yup, we sure have improved this country since we stole it from those ignorant savages who did nothing all day but chase their food around till they got a chance to kill it. Yup! We sure have evolved.

 

[Machjo]

There are many reasons why Christmas lights are not seen on residential properties north of Edmonton. Fifty percent of the population in Alberta is divorced. Those fifty percent are probably not hanging lights. Of the remaining fifty percent not hanging lights on the house for two weeks at the end of December, many practice religions that don't involve putting up lights - although I think it is part of Canadian culture and that newcomers to Canada should celebrate their traditions in lights, others are environmentally conscientious, and yet others simply don't climb ladders - amongst other reasons.

Wait a minute. Unless I misunderstood you here, you're saying that immigrants should be 'more Canada than Canadians'? That while Canadians themselves don't put up Christmas lights, that immigrants should compensate by putting them up on our behalf?

I hope I misunderstood something here.

 

[Cliffy]

Wait a minute. Unless I misunderstood you here, you're saying that immigrants should be 'more Canada than Canadians'? That while Canadians themselves don't put up Christmas lights, that immigrants should compensate by putting them up on our behalf?

I hope I misunderstood something here.

Sounded like that to me too.

 

[Ariadne]

What the hell is "Canadian culture"? Stomping Tom, Celine Dion, This Hour Has Twenty Two Minutes, Little Mosque on the Prairies? What? From my perspective, most of what I see is mindless consumerism and rape and pillage of our natural resources. Our life style is dependent on the subjugation of third world peoples to produce the cheep crap that we demand to have in our shopping malls. We consume hundreds of magazines to learn all the latest chemical concoctions to try to make us look like the movie stars we worship. We are spoon fed our opinions about just about everything from religion and politics to what cereal is best for breakfast. Santa Clause came into being in a Coka Cola commercial. Yup, we sure have improved this country since we stole it from those ignorant savages who did nothing all day but chase their food around till they got a chance to kill it. Yup! We sure have evolved.

Canadian culture is the way of life that you enjoy every day. If you lived in Iran, you would live in a different culture, and would adapt to a different way of life. In some parts of Europe, you would adapt to having afternoon naps simply because everything shuts down in the early afternoon. Canadian culture is no more defined by contemporary music and television than Iraq.

US lifestyle is dependent upon superiority and subjugation, not Canada. Spoon fed people are most likely not well educated. Coca Cola exploited santa claus with a simple Adobe Illustrator red coke bottle, but it didn't work. Charlie Brown's Christmas cannot be outdone.