Penalized for working.

[lone wolf]

Poor financial planning on whose part? I'd prefer a kiss (rebate) to paying them to screw me over

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I bandy around those figures because that is what is staring me in the face right now. For perspective, on that particular pay stub I am looking at, (which is from last month yet), I have already paid more than half in income tax alone than your wife's secretary grossed last year. I've also paid almost $1900 in CPP and $700 in EI, and we were only 3 1/2 months into the year, and not even the busy season. The harder you work the more, and more, and more you pay, great Canadian incentive eh?

About the CPP, those deductions work in a strange way. Again, let us take the example of somebody earning 10,000 $ per year. The monthly CPP installment comes to 495 $ per month. However, there is the maximum of around 2100 $ per year.

What this means is that you pay 495 per month for January through April, pay much less in May and pay nothing from June to December. So it hardly would be fair to count CPP payment as 495 $ per month.

I suspect that is ho w much you have been paying, 495 X 4 is more than 1900$. But you are almost done paying CPP payments for the year. That holds true for most high earners.

Incidentally, the Social Security payments in USA are much greater than our CPP payments.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

That was my first read too, but read closer, it is her secretary, a bit closer to the bottom end.

You got it right.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Many people don't understand how payrolls are computed.

The important thing to note is that, at the end of the year, the tax, EI, and CPP that you owe is based on the total you make, and it all works out in the end. If you do a lot of overtime, and one pay period shows large deductions, it gets balanced out when you do your taxes, and get a refund.

There is, for example, a maximum CPP premium payable, once you reach the limit, your employer (if they use proper payroll procedures) is supposed to stop deducting it, or you get it refunded anyway.

Taxes and EI premiums are deducted each pay period based on the assumption that each pay period is typical, so for example, if you work a lot of OT one period, the taxes deducted will be high, because the taxes are deducted based on the idea that you make this income every pay period, but at the end of the year, you only pay the taxes based on your actual income, and you get the rest back.

Quite so. I can understand somebody getting inordinate amount of taxes withheld from one or two paychecks for whatever the reason. However, it all sorts out at the end of the year.

And if one looks at tax tables (they are available for anybody to see on the CRA website), one's income has to be well in excess of 10,000 $ per month, for 40% of it to be withheld at the source.

 

[JLM]

Many people don't understand how payrolls are computed.

The important thing to note is that, at the end of the year, the tax, EI, and CPP that you owe is based on the total you make, and it all works out in the end. If you do a lot of overtime, and one pay period shows large deductions, it gets balanced out when you do your taxes, and get a refund.

There is, for example, a maximum CPP premium payable, once you reach the limit, your employer (if they use proper payroll procedures) is supposed to stop deducting it, or you get it refunded anyway.

Taxes and EI premiums are deducted each pay period based on the assumption that each pay period is typical, so for example, if you work a lot of OT one period, the taxes deducted will be high, because the taxes are deducted based on the idea that you make this income every pay period, but at the end of the year, you only pay the taxes based on your actual income, and you get the rest back.

You hit the nail on the head, when I was working (in a fairly high pay bracket) one or more of my deductions used to be fulfilled by about the middle of the year as the maximum had been reached.

 

[Machjo]

When I joined the Company I retired from after almost 38 years, I bought a number of shares that I could afford at the time. Bought more in subsequent years.

But since I had a stake, I never refused overtime. And I was proud to be called a scab by union pustules.

Your company was unionized? I'm lucky to never have worked in a unionized company, but I feel for ya.

Now I can better understand your grouchiness on these forums.

 

[Machjo]

Were you there at the begining of the union movement having your teeth kicked out by hired company goons. You had no problem taking and accepting the benefits of someone elses blood but have the balls to call them pustiles as a Johnny come ****ing lately?

Unions have outlived their usefulness. If you have an issue with usury, then vote social democrat. Problem solved.

 

[Machjo]

petros, I was there when when my tires were slashed by union goons, who wanted to deny my right to work.

Please show me where it says in any Canadian law, that the arrival date determines the value of one's opinion.

Being called a scab is far worse than being called a pustule.

And this is where I take issue with labour unions. They're way too confrontational.

 

[JLM]

Your company was unionized? I'm lucky to never have worked in a unionized company, but I feel for ya.

Now I can better understand your grouchiness on these forums.

Yeah, I guess we are approaching the end of an era. With such tight competition these days there is only enough profit in a product to support a limited number of parasites. :lol::lol:

 

[Machjo]

Yeah, I guess we are approaching the end of an era. With such tight competition these days there is only enough profit in a product to support a limited number of parasites. :lol::lol:

Don't get me wrong. I do sincerely believe that the vast majority of the unemployed want to work, and that we need to help them to get back into the workforce. Many, many factors can cause people to fall off the wagon in life, and it's not always their own fault.

However, in the case of labour unions, it seems that it's always take take take and never give. Now again I'm not glorifying greedy capitalists who don't want to share their profits with the workers who helped them make the profit. Sometimes the greed is reciprocal. However, a confrontational attitude on the part of employers is no excuse for workers to stoop to their level, and certainly not to break the law and become violent. Again, they always have the option of voting in social corporatist politicians who will help to level out the playing field. If they choose not to do that, then that's their problem.

 

[JLM]

Don't get me wrong. I do sincerely believe that the vast majority of the unemployed want to work, and that we need to help them to get back into the workforce. Many, many factors can cause people to fall off the wagon in life, and it's not always their own fault.

However, in the case of labour unions, it seems that it's always take take take and never give. Now again I'm not glorifying greedy capitalists who don't want to share their profits with the workers who helped them make the profit. Sometimes the greed is reciprocal. However, a confrontational attitude on the part of employers is no excuse for workers to stoop to their level, and certainly not to break the law and become violent. Again, they always have the option of voting in social corporatist politicians who will help to level out the playing field. If they choose not to do that, then that's their problem.

No, I'm not - I was referring to the parasites who are "working". Lawyers might be a good place to start.................:lol:

 

[Machjo]

No, I'm not - I was referring to the parasites who are "working". Lawyers might be a good place to start.................:lol:

Thanks for clarifying that.

I remember a case of a volunteer youth group that was prohibited from helping to maintian a school lawn because it would 'take jobs away from those hired to care for those lawns'.

Incredible. Fine, if it takes jobs away, then retrain them for another job where they might be needed, but don't tell another that they are not allowed to volunteer their time to help the community. What the hell are we teaching our youths when we get angry at them for volunteering and helping out? Isn't that what we ought to be encouraging them to do? No wonder no one wants to help the community anymore, the're afraid to scab if they do. Caring about the community and wanting to help is now scabbing!

 

[JLM]

Thanks for clarifying that.

I remember a case of a volunteer youth group that was prohibited from helping to maintian a school lawn because it would 'take jobs away from those hired to care for those lawns'.

Incredible. Fine, if it takes jobs away, then retrain them for another job where they might be needed, but don't tell another that they are not allowed to volunteer their time to help the community. What the hell are we teaching our youths when we get angry at them for volunteering and helping out? Isn't that what we ought to be encouraging them to do? No wonder no one wants to help the community anymore, the're afraid to scab if they do. Caring about the community and wanting to help is now scabbing!

Laughable isn't it??????- the sheer nerve of someone who would dare to work for nothing...................:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Machjo]

Laughable isn't it??????- the sheer nerve of someone who would dare to work for nothing...................:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Tell me about it. volunteering, helping the community and the less fortunate, caring for others without pay, how scandalous. They should be rounded up and shot. They should know better than to care for the community. Hey, maybe the NDP could take up the cause, fighting for the right of unionized labour not to have to compete with these bleeding-heart socialists...Hmmm... that last sentence didn't come out right somehow.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

Plainly they deducted an outrageous amount of tax, bob. Anyway, i assume you got most of that 198.28 back at the end of the year.

Well, no, that wouldn't happen until next year anyway, and trust me, I will not receive any refund on that. And no, the way we calculate deductions are based on what are assumed I will earn over the year. I am already in the top tax bracket based on present and projected earnings and is reflected in what they deducted, I would have to stop working now in order to possibly get a refund. It is what it is.

It is not good planning to get a refund. Ideally you should owe taxes at the end of the year. If you get say, 10,000 $ refund that means government has been using your money for one year and not giving you any return for it. But if you owe government 10,000 $ per year (and I always try to arrange it so that I owe them money, not other way around), that means you have been using government's 10,000 $ for a year to earn more money.

Particularly if you get a large refund year after year, that denotes poor financial planning.

Any refund I get is from fiscal fancy dancing, I am taxed to the max otherwise.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

About the CPP, those deductions work in a strange way. Again, let us take the example of somebody earning 10,000 $ per year. The monthly CPP installment comes to 495 $ per month. However, there is the maximum of around 2100 $ per year.

What this means is that you pay 495 per month for January through April, pay much less in May and pay nothing from June to December. So it hardly would be fair to count CPP payment as 495 $ per month.

I suspect that is ho w much you have been paying, 495 X 4 is more than 1900$. But you are almost done paying CPP payments for the year. That holds true for most high earners.

Incidentally, the Social Security payments in USA are much greater than our CPP payments.

Yes, I am probably done paying CPP, or will be in short order, I just haven't checked. The problem is, that $495 is quite a shock to the system when it does come around again in December. A fairer system would spread these payments out over twelve months rather than five. At least if I pay my insurance in a short time I get a discount, but that doesn't hold true with CPP and EI. As for medical and other insurance coverage I have to carry, don't even ask, which is not part of this discussion anyway, but it makes the States look good.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Well, no, that wouldn't happen until next year anyway, and trust me, I will not receive any refund on that. And no, the way we calculate deductions are based on what are assumed I will earn over the year.
Any refund I get is from fiscal fancy dancing, I am taxed to the max otherwise.

I assume you are not self employed, bob. For self employed persons, CRA looks at how much they earned last year, and figures out the tax installment based upon that.

So let us say you earned 100,000 $ by self employment last year and paid 35,000 taxes on that. This year, CRA will ask for quarterly installment of 35,000/4. The installments are calculated based upon last years earning, not this year’s projected earnings.

Of course you have flexibility in that. If you think you may earn only 80,000 this year, you can choose to send in a lower installment (always with the proviso that if you are more than 1000 $ in arrears at the end of the year, they charge you interest).

 

[bobnoorduyn]

I assume you are not self employed, bob. For self employed persons, CRA looks at how much they earned last year, and figures out the tax installment based upon that.

The fact of the matter is that of the $412.50 I earned, I was taxed $186.66, with the other deductions totalling $27.56. It is still a sh*t load of a tax burden we carry.

 

[Liberalman]

get rid of the sliding scale income tax and convert it to a flat tax

 

[bobnoorduyn]

get rid of the sliding scale income tax and convert it to a flat tax

Oddly I agree with you.