Peaceful coexistence between scientists and theologians

[kowalskil]

I would very much like to know what people on this website think about peaceful coexistence between those who study our material world (scientists) and those who study our spiritual world (theologians). My attempt to write an essay on that subject failed, as you can see at:

Spirituality and science

The webpage was prepared to generate a discussion. Those who post comments should refer to specific “contributions,” as numbered (or to specific persons, as numbered at the beginning). This will simplify the discussion.

And let us keep in mind that the main topic is peaceful coexistence. Is it possible? Is it desirable? What should we do promote it? etc.

Thank you in advance,

Ludwik Kowalski, author of “Diary of a Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality.” Click the link below.

Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality
==========================================

 

[darkbeaver]

It (peaceful cooperation) requires being enlightened to the fact that science and spirit are studies or approaches to power. The division is imposed and unnatural hence the friction. Who can discover and not be spiritually raised? Who can be spiritually raised and not discover?

 

[talloola]

a peaceful co existence can be found between 'any' two opposites, if they accept the right of
the other to think what they think, without harrassment, can't see it happening between the two
you mention.

Then again, it comes down to the particular individual, good friends can be good friends, and know
'that' is the most important ingredient, and not the banging of heads over beliefs or discoveries.

And very very good friends, who are extremely intelligent, can bang heads over their beliefs or
discoveries, without losing the friendship, go for a beer after, and continue on.

One definitely cannot sit on the fence with the belief side or the discovery side, one is one,
and the other is the other, maybe agnostics, they seem to be open to wondering about everything,
but can't make a stand on either, they are waiting, waiting, waiting.

 

[kowalskil]

It (peaceful cooperation) requires being enlightened to the fact that science and spirit are studies or approaches to power. The division is imposed and unnatural hence the friction. Who can discover and not be spiritually raised? Who can be spiritually raised and not discover?

You wrote: "the division is imposed and unnatural hence the friction." The division is part of our history. What did happen should not be ignored, by enlightened scientists and theologians. No one benefits from the division today.

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.

 

[darkbeaver]

Opposites attract, man woman, negative positive, even the night attracts the light, and they all get along very nicely. Science and spirit are complimentry. Is their really a fence between them? I don't think there has to be. Some scientist will tell you that the material evidence drives his work but he's forgotten the creative arts and the dreams that allowed him in the end to touch a material fact. A scientist unanimated by spirit will discover nothing.

 

[petros]

There is a restraining order in the US. Religion is to keep 300yds. from Science at all times.

 

[darkbeaver]

You wrote: "the division is imposed and unnatural hence the friction." The division is part of our history. What did happen should not be ignored, by enlightened scientists and theologians. No one benefits from the division today.

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)


.

If no one benefited from division then why sir is there a surplus of division? Sure what did happen should never be ignored but what did not happen should also not be ignored, in fact it can't be, simply because the one qualifies the other. The division is very much a part of our present. We will not easily convince the devisive among us to lay down the tools of trade that sustain them will we? The enlightened, by definition are incapable of ignorance of any kind.
Now to my favourite division, that which rages between the uniformists and the catastrophists. One side in sack cloth intent on discovery of fundemental truth and the other state sanctioned,intent on the maintenance of error. Clearly a division of note. I think you're a bit hasty declaring that no one benefits from divsion today. in my humble opinion

 

[kowalskil]

... I think you're a bit hasty declaring that no one benefits from divsion today, in my humble opinion.

OK, let me put it in a slightly different way. Neither honest scientists nor honest theologians benefit from the "we are right and you are wrong" claims.

Ludwik
.

 

[darkbeaver]

OK, let me put it in a slightly different way. Neither honest scientists nor honest theologians benefit from the "we are right and you are wrong" claims.

Ludwik
.

A very reasonable reply, but, how will we judge the spiritual characteristic of honesty from individual to individual. I despair of ever finding an honest man. (approximation) That question of relative honesty, wasn't science to provided that very gauge, and isn't that the fear of every honest theologian?

What would total peaceful co existence do to mankind? How would we differentiate between good and bad? Where would all the good experience of learning from bad experience go?

 

[kowalskil]

A very reasonable reply, but, how will we judge the spiritual characteristic of honesty from individual to individual. I despair of ever finding an honest man. (approximation) That question of relative honesty, wasn't science to provided that very gauge, and isn't that the fear of every honest theologian?

What would total peaceful co existence do to mankind? How would we differentiate between good and bad? Where would all the good experience of learning from bad experience go?

These are good questions. I will also be waiting for answers, probably from people much more knowledgeable than I am.

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.

 

[darkbeaver]

These are good questions. I will also be waiting for answers, probably from people much more knowledgeable than I am.

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.

Me too, that's why I asked.

 

[petros]

The orgins of science are religious. For Arsitotle, Plato, Archimedes, Pythagorus science was religion and they were very low key about what they practiced until Platonism slowly leaked out. They were al khemists, scientists and philsophers, astronomers, astrologers but they found spirituality in it.

 

[kowalskil]

These are good questions. I will also be waiting for answers, probably from people much more knowledgeable than I am.

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.

P.S. I forgot to tell you that the little boy on the photo is me, with parents. The photo was taken in 1936, two years before they took my father away. He died in Kolyma, two years later, at the age of 36. Kolyma is in the Western Siberia; it was the most horrible part of Gulag Archipelago.

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.

 

[eh1eh]

Me too, that's why I asked.

Indeed. Good question. Divide and conquer is a maxim of the ages which has proven effective.

 

[kowalskil]

The orgins of science are religious. For Arsitotle, Plato, Archimedes, Pythagorus science was religion and they were very low key about what they practiced until Platonism slowly leaked out. They were al khemists, scientists and philsophers, astronomers, astrologers but they found spirituality in it.

The same was true for Newton, about 350 years ago.

Ludwik Kowalski (see Wikipedia)
.

 

[petros]

Newton was obsessed with cracking the Philosopher's Stone. He would have been on trial for heresay and jail in the Tower of London (or worse) if anyone ever knew.

A nice painting the liven up the thread entitled.

Pythagoreans Celebrate Sunrise

 

[darkbeaver]

The orgins of science are religious. For Arsitotle, Plato, Archimedes, Pythagorus science was religion and they were very low key about what they practiced until Platonism slowly leaked out. They were al khemists, scientists and philsophers, astronomers, astrologers but they found spirituality in it.

But you don't know how science works they'll say or this is all boogabooga, science was not invented till recently they'll say etc; I understand that some think there's quite a bit of science involved in building a pyramid but we know that can't be true, they just got lucky ya know.

 

[petros]

Yeah all it took was skills and seeds from the people on the Northern Steppes by the Black Sea to teach them agriculture and next thing ya know voilà, giant monuments built by wandering mathematicians and men who were giants all thanks to grain, oil and a plum bob.

 

[darkbeaver]

Indeed. Good question. Divide and conquer is a maxim of the ages which has proven effective.

Absolutely for sure certainly of course exactly but you just try telling someone you can make big bucks in that game and they'll tell you to get stuffed every time. If you ain't got at least two teams your game is going nowhere eh. The hidden third side always wins all that's necessary is that the game happens.

Newton was obsessed with cracking the Philosopher's Stone. He would have been on trial for heresay and jail in the Tower of London (or worse) if anyone ever knew.

A nice painting the liven up the thread entitled.

Pythagoreans Celebrate Sunrise

Real good lyre science by that bunch .

Yeah all it took was skills and seeds from the people on the Northern Steppes by the Black Sea to teach them agriculture and next thing ya know voilà, giant monuments built by wandering mathematicians and men who were giants all thanks to grain, oil and a plum bob.

They brought cannabis with them from the Caspian wilds as well. I consider that the flux of the whole process without which nothing much of any importance would or could ever have happened.

 

[petros]

Real good lyre science by that bunch .



They brought cannabis with them from the Caspian wilds as well. I consider that the flux of the whole process without which nothing much of any importance would or could ever have happened.

They are playing Musica Unversalis.

Yeah, Ancient Ukrainians spread their knowledge, ruderalis cannabis, wheat and rye seed as they were the first to tame and ride the horse 6000 years ago.

They were huge people in comparison to those who lived in ancient deserts of Khemet (Egypt) which started the legends of giants and even gods.