Wisdom of Solomon ignored by Christians Today?

[bluedog]

from
Matthew Henry's Whole Bible Commentary
on Proverbs 23
Proverbs 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go


Be not ruled by senses, but by reason and religion. Covet not that which pleases the eye, in hopes that it will please the taste; but let thy serious thoughts correct the errors of thy senses and convince thee that that which seems delightful is really hurtful, and resolve against it accordingly. Let not the heart walk after the eye, for it is a deceitful guide." 2. "Be not too bold with the charms of this or any other sin; look not, lest thou lust, lest thou take the forbidden fruit." Note Those that would be kept from any sin must keep themselves from all the occasions and beginnings of it, and be afraid of coming within the reach of its allurements, lest they be overcome by them.

The above link is expounds much more of course, pertaining to alcohol use specifically but all sin generally. The consequences of prurient behavior is discussed and that resulting destructiveness should be avoided at all costs. Here is another passage:

It makes men impure and insolent, v. 33. (1.) The eyes grow unruly and behold strange women to lust after them, and so let in adultery into the heart. Est Venus in vinis-Wine is oil to the fire of lust. Thy eyes shall behold strange things (so some read it); when men are drunk the house turns round with them, and every thing looks strange to them, so that them they cannot trust their own eyes. (2.) The tongue also grows unruly and talks extravagantly; by it the heart utters perverse things, things contrary to reason, religion, and common civility, which they would be ashamed to speak if they were sober. What ridiculous incoherent nonsense men will talk when they are drunk who at another time will speak admirably well and to the purpose!

Is our impulse to sin still ever so destructive for us, while we know and love God? Have you experience coping with such struggles of the carnal mind versus the Holy Spirit which indwells all of us, while we know the Lord?

Isn't sin black and white, while even todays religions paint things gray? :fish:

 

[Cliffy]

You painted them green! ;-)

 

[SirJosephPorter]

The consequences of prurient behavior is discussed and that resulting destructiveness should be avoided at all costs.

Isn't sin black and white, while even todays religions paint things gray?

And just what makes you think that sin is destructive, bluedog? What is the biggest sin of all? That is not to believe in God. I have been committing that sin for a long time now, it hasn’t hurt me any.

There is sin and there is sin. Some sins can be harmful, while some others are not harmful.

 

[AnnaG]

You bet, Sir Joe. The 7 cardinal sins and the 4 cardinal virtues are a lot better to go on than the 10 commandments. Or even better is what the Christians call the "Golden Rule" but was written in different forms by different peoples long before Christians got a hold on it.

 

[Northboy]

from
Matthew Henry's Whole Bible Commentary
on Proverbs 23
Proverbs 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go


Be not ruled by senses, but by reason and religion. Covet not that which pleases the eye, in hopes that it will please the taste; but let thy serious thoughts correct the errors of thy senses and convince thee that that which seems delightful is really hurtful, and resolve against it accordingly. Let not the heart walk after the eye, for it is a deceitful guide." 2. "Be not too bold with the charms of this or any other sin; look not, lest thou lust, lest thou take the forbidden fruit." Note Those that would be kept from any sin must keep themselves from all the occasions and beginnings of it, and be afraid of coming within the reach of its allurements, lest they be overcome by them.

The above link is expounds much more of course, pertaining to alcohol use specifically but all sin generally. The consequences of prurient behavior is discussed and that resulting destructiveness should be avoided at all costs. Here is another passage:

It makes men impure and insolent, v. 33. (1.) The eyes grow unruly and behold strange women to lust after them, and so let in adultery into the heart. Est Venus in vinis-Wine is oil to the fire of lust. Thy eyes shall behold strange things (so some read it); when men are drunk the house turns round with them, and every thing looks strange to them, so that them they cannot trust their own eyes. (2.) The tongue also grows unruly and talks extravagantly; by it the heart utters perverse things, things contrary to reason, religion, and common civility, which they would be ashamed to speak if they were sober. What ridiculous incoherent nonsense men will talk when they are drunk who at another time will speak admirably well and to the purpose!

Is our impulse to sin still ever so destructive for us, while we know and love God? Have you experience coping with such struggles of the carnal mind versus the Holy Spirit which indwells all of us, while we know the Lord?

Isn't sin black and white, while even todays religions paint things gray? :fish:

Is the Wisdom of Solomon ignored by today's Christians. Yes. Later versions of the Bible remove this whole book.

Christian's by and large think they're exempt from the Father's law of Cause and Effect, but Christ even said that you would reap what you sow. I put all these discussion about improper conduct into this framework---Like Solomon would have and did.

Have you read the Wisdom of Solomon?

A little exerpt:
"Wise men in plenty are the world's salvation, and a prudent King is the sheet-anchor mof his people. Learn what I have to teach you, and it will be good for you."

 

[bluedog]

The consequences of prurient behavior is discussed and that resulting destructiveness should be avoided at all costs.

Isn't sin black and white, while even todays religions paint things gray?

And just what makes you think that sin is destructive, bluedog? What is the biggest sin of all? That is not to believe in God. I have been committing that sin for a long time now, it hasn’t hurt me any.

There is sin and there is sin. Some sins can be harmful, while some others are not harmful.

*******************************************

For an atheist to admits he sins leaves me wondering. The meaning of sin is "to miss the mark" according the greek. Cliffy has studied the lexicon and knows this.
As a devout atheist however you have been set no mark to miss, only those that you set for yourself.
I presented this in a Christian Discussion, with a faith thread.
Solomon was King of Israel, Son of David, not Christian, but a man of Great Faith. He still is seen by most in the world to be a man of the greatest wisdom.

All sin needs to be forgiven. Before Christ and today. It must be Presented to the most High God in all humility. It is Blasphemy to insult the Creator, and His Son, Our Savior, ignoring His Holiness. When we are expounding to all our selfish pride we can impune that Love of The Father that was ours freely given. Atheists cannot blaspheme for they know not God, ...not yet.

Therefore you exclude yourself of any opinion. :fish:

 

[Cliffy]

So, what you are saying is, if a person agrees with you, they can post on your thread but if they don't they have no right to offer their opinion. Interesting. Sounds a little dictatorial, dontcha think?

 

[coldstream]

Is the Wisdom of Solomon ignored by today's Christians. Yes. Later versions of the Bible remove this whole book.

Christian's by and large think they're exempt from the Father's law of Cause and Effect, but Christ even said that you would reap what you sow. I put all these discussion about improper conduct into this framework---Like Solomon would have and did.

Have you read the Wisdom of Solomon?

A little exerpt:
"Wise men in plenty are the world's salvation, and a prudent King is the sheet-anchor mof his people. Learn what I have to teach you, and it will be good for you."

If you pick up a Catholic Version of the Bible, you'll find the Old Testament has 46 Chapters compared to 39 in Protestant Versions, including the Wisdom of Solomon, Maccabees and some minor prophets. The Protestant translations tend to remove (or loosely translate) things that do not correspond to Luther's doctrine of Salvation through Faith alone. Maccabees was removed because it forms one of the bases of the Catholic axiom of Purgatory. So they were never really removed, just expurgated from some later texts for reasons of dogmatic purity.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Coldstream, I think Catholic Ten Commandments are also a little different from Protestant Ten Commandments.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

For an atheist to admits he sins leaves me wondering. The meaning of sin is "to miss the mark" according the greek. Cliffy has studied the lexicon and knows this.

That is your meaning of sin, bluedog. I equate sinful with illegal. To me, noting is sin if it is legal.

And I very well know the meaning of sin (to miss the mark). To me sinning is missing the mark legally. So most of the actions that you regard as sinful (abortion, contraception, homosexuality, premarital sex etc.), I don’t regard them as sinful.

 

[AnnaG]

If you pick up a Catholic Version of the Bible, you'll find the Old Testament has 46 Chapters compared to 39 in Protestant Versions, including the Wisdom of Solomon, Maccabees and some minor prophets. The Protestant translations tend to remove (or loosely translate) things that do not correspond to Luther's doctrine of Salvation through Faith alone. Maccabees was removed because it forms one of the bases of the Catholic axiom of Purgatory. So they were never really removed, just expurgated from some later texts for reasons of dogmatic purity.

aaaahhh Kinda like a brick short of a wall.

(Kidding.)

Wonder what else has been left out.

 

[MHz]

The above link is expounds much more of course, pertaining to alcohol use specifically but all sin generally. The consequences of prurient behavior is discussed and that resulting destructiveness should be avoided at all costs.

Is our impulse to sin still ever so destructive for us, while we know and love God? Have you experience coping with such struggles of the carnal mind versus the Holy Spirit which indwells all of us, while we know the Lord?

Isn't sin black and white, while even todays religions paint things gray? :fish:

Since that chapter mention several things, it would seem to point to excesses in general. Wealth is not bad in itself, the things some people do in chasing wealth can involve crimes against society or individuals. In the chase for that you miss on what really matters in the end. Relationships between people. Say a person acquires great wealth and that surrounds him with many 'important' people who are also wealthy. Should that wealth vanish so do those 'important' people. In the crash of 1920's and 30's many rich people became poor overnight. How many took their lives compared to those that were already poor (money wise).
Do we have a natural tendency to sin? I don't think so but since sinners seem to acquire all the really expensive material things they has to be a degree of envy from some who admire them and their social standing.
Today's Churches are more of a business than a simple house of prayer. The are anything but poor and attracting 'clients' is how they acquire wealth so they are naturally (greed) going to whitewash sin as to keep the sinners in their congregation. They cannot preach that yes people will sin but grace and mercy cover many sins automatically as it is a free gift. Even more sins can be forgiven by a prayer of repentance (a bit more involved than this indicates). The ultimate way to have sins removed is by dieing, the punishment God mentioned in the Garden. If you die and are then awoke you are sin free. It is not a time for the beginning of punishment, as some would try to promote as that is a sound teaching in Scripture. If the Churches taught that they would all be empty after that message was given. That sounds like the freedom to sin at every opportunity, God would never promote that so the was it goes is like this. Once having knowledge of grace and you sin with the thought that grace will cover the sin forgiveness is made null and void. That is said plainly only once.

And just what makes you think that sin is destructive, bluedog? What is the biggest sin of all? That is not to believe in God. I have been committing that sin for a long time now, it hasn’t hurt me any.

We haven't come to the point in time were those people are dealth with.

You bet, Sir Joe. The 7 cardinal sins and the 4 cardinal virtues are a lot better to go on than the 10 commandments. Or even better is what the Christians call the "Golden Rule" but was written in different forms by different peoples long before Christians got a hold on it.

LOL Are you serious? Since somebody said killing was wrong before it was given in Scripture (actual date) that makes . Cain was punished, that was long before the 10 came into effect. Would the ones pertaining to God (if followed)promote a healty relationship between a person and God. Woud the ones pertaining to people (if followed) promote a healthy and long-lasting relationship between strangers (family is slightly different as you are stuck with them for better or worse).

Sounds a little dictatorial, dontcha think?

Dictator, isn't that an atheist word? Sad not interesting.

To me sinning is missing the mark legally. So most of the actions that you regard as sinful (abortion, contraception, homosexuality, premarital sex etc.), I don’t regard them as sinful.

So if you moved to a place where they were against the law then you would see them as sins? What if the became sins here, would you change your view? If something is a sin now would you lobby to have it deems legal?

 

[AnnaG]

There are those of us who aren't naturally prone to "sin" and have the integrity to resist temptations.

 

[gopher]

prurient behavior???

then why did he have over a thousand wives, concubines, and mistresses????

 

[gopher]

''Isn't sin black and white''

The Bible tells the wealthy to give their wealth to the poor. But rich Republicans have no moral scruples about keeping all that money to themselves. I wonder why this is never discussed by Republicans.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

There are those of us who aren't naturally prone to "sin" and have the integrity to resist temptations.

Indeed. I think most individuals have their own moral compass and that compass is quite accurate (there are exceptions obviously).

Most of us know that murder is wrong, that rape, robbery, assault are wrong. We don’t need any religion to tell us that.

 

[Liberalman]

from
Matthew Henry's Whole Bible Commentary
on Proverbs 23
Proverbs 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go


Be not ruled by senses, but by reason and religion. Covet not that which pleases the eye, in hopes that it will please the taste; but let thy serious thoughts correct the errors of thy senses and convince thee that that which seems delightful is really hurtful, and resolve against it accordingly. Let not the heart walk after the eye, for it is a deceitful guide." 2. "Be not too bold with the charms of this or any other sin; look not, lest thou lust, lest thou take the forbidden fruit." Note Those that would be kept from any sin must keep themselves from all the occasions and beginnings of it, and be afraid of coming within the reach of its allurements, lest they be overcome by them.

The above link is expounds much more of course, pertaining to alcohol use specifically but all sin generally. The consequences of prurient behavior is discussed and that resulting destructiveness should be avoided at all costs. Here is another passage:

It makes men impure and insolent, v. 33. (1.) The eyes grow unruly and behold strange women to lust after them, and so let in adultery into the heart. Est Venus in vinis-Wine is oil to the fire of lust. Thy eyes shall behold strange things (so some read it); when men are drunk the house turns round with them, and every thing looks strange to them, so that them they cannot trust their own eyes. (2.) The tongue also grows unruly and talks extravagantly; by it the heart utters perverse things, things contrary to reason, religion, and common civility, which they would be ashamed to speak if they were sober. What ridiculous incoherent nonsense men will talk when they are drunk who at another time will speak admirably well and to the purpose!

Is our impulse to sin still ever so destructive for us, while we know and love God? Have you experience coping with such struggles of the carnal mind versus the Holy Spirit which indwells all of us, while we know the Lord?

Isn't sin black and white, while even todays religions paint things gray? :fish:

I can't read the green type can you re-post that part in a darker colour Bluedog?

 

[bluedog]

Coldstream, I think Catholic Ten Commandments are also a little different from Protestant Ten Commandments.

******************************************

You are a kick! :lol: Show us the differences please.
Moses was Moses God is God now and forever Amen!!
Phrasing could be different with each translation but the core remains the core. No really link us up with this claim.

Like NOW!! lol !!!!:fish:
Cliffy your extensive studies put you where on this statement?
(Oh ya Cliff, I wanted an honest personal discussion with Christians men and women or people of faith actually. That is why I posted it here...
for a wee bit less, ummm, sidetracking?:smile:

 

[bluedog]

For an atheist to admits he sins leaves me wondering. The meaning of sin is "to miss the mark" according the greek. Cliffy has studied the lexicon and knows this.

That is your meaning of sin, bluedog. I equate sinful with illegal. To me, noting is sin if it is legal.

And I very well know the meaning of sin (to miss the mark). To me sinning is missing the mark legally. So most of the actions that you regard as sinful (abortion, contraception, homosexuality, premarital sex etc.), I don’t regard them as sinful.

***********************************************

Why use a spiritual term for your legal opinion?
Why not the word "crime", as in criminal, a person who commits an offense or an act of missing that mark against social law?


We are referring to spiritual laws. Clearly, you admit you are not.:fish:

 

[Northboy]

If you pick up a Catholic Version of the Bible, you'll find the Old Testament has 46 Chapters compared to 39 in Protestant Versions, including the Wisdom of Solomon, Maccabees and some minor prophets. The Protestant translations tend to remove (or loosely translate) things that do not correspond to Luther's doctrine of Salvation through Faith alone. Maccabees was removed because it forms one of the bases of the Catholic axiom of Purgatory. So they were never really removed, just expurgated from some later texts for reasons of dogmatic purity.

Actually, the Bible I have which contains the apocrypha is a New English, published in 1961. I guess the scholars at Oxford decided to put them back in.Also this version is not broken into verses and the writings are narratives like they would have been in the original texts.

I didn't realize that the Roman Catholics related Maccabees to purgatory. I find that book contains some things about Judah of that day.

This thread was entitled " Wisdom of Solomon ignored by Christians today?"

I thought we were going to have a discussion regarding the Wisdom of Solomon but that doesn't seem to be the case. Too bad.