There are no atheists in foxholes.

There are no atheists in foxholes.

Cliffy

#1Apr 15th, 2009

As I lay in my bath tub this morning my mind wondered into this little sillyphosical topic. As my pappy and his brethren were fond of saying, “there are no atheists in foxholes.” Their proof was that under stress of life threatening danger, many atheists were heard saying, “Oh God!!” or “God Help Me!!”

There is only one flaw in this faulty logic and that is that most of the time and most of the people in situations of dire stress will shout out “Oh Shhhiiiitt!!!” I have read that from many different sources over the years but I can’t prove it statistically, but if you are honest with yourself, even the religious (I know that is difficult for you) you would have to admit you probably have said it more often than, “Oh God!”

Does this not seem, using the theist’s rational, that more people believe in Shhiitt than in god? Or is it that they believe that god is shhiitt or that shhiitt is god? I realize that not too many religious people will give this much thought as it might be a strain to do a little critical thinking, but if just one person questions their beliefs, it will have been worth posting this.

karrie

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Or maybe they take that commandment literally....

Thou shalt not take my name in vain.

If you're about to get your head blown off, wouldn't it feel awfully 'in vain' to be calling on God?

lone wolf

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Praying takes too long. You don't have time to be scared when you're hoping it won't hurt. "Oh Shyte" just comes so much faster than "now-I-lay-me-down-to-slee...."

DaSleeper

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Atheists are also logical.......why not pray at the end?.......just in case

Cliffy

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

Or maybe they take that commandment literally....

Thou shalt not take my name in vain.

If you're about to get your head blown off, wouldn't it feel awfully 'in vain' to be calling on God?

Or is that "in vein" as in the vein that the bullet is passing through?

karrie

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Okay... so, smart ass comment out of my system...

Personally I don't feel the comment is any kind of argument for religion, but, it is a neat observation that I've seen hold true. People reach out for deep connection when they see their lives hitting the end. Given my views on the nature of God, I am inclined to believe that God is exactly what most people reach for when they seek out fellow human beings. Regardless of what they want to call it, or whether they try to tap into it with prayers, with symbols, with song, with kisses, almost everyone is seeking connection in some way, to someone, at the end of their life.

Cliffy

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Actually karrie, what is life if not constantly seeking connection? Most people I have met have at some time(s) thought that they are foriegn to this planet. "Gawd made a mistake dropping me off here." "Beam me up Scotty, there is no intelligent life on this planet!"

There are many ways to express the search for connection to spirit/god/humans. Some conclude there is no higher power, some that there is and some just blindly follow whatever beliefs they were handed by their parents or their peers without critical thought.

I post outrageous stuff about religion, not because I believe it is nonsense so much as I am outraged that people do not question their beliefs, that they blindly accept what has been handed them as truth. Without a critical mind we revert back to the caves.

EagleSmack

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

One thing I never talked about here is that I have been in combat once when I was a Marine. It was in Panama so I am not claiming to be a modern day Audie Murphy and Panama was nothing like our men and women have gone through in past wars or the current ones. So I am not by any stretch claiming to be a war hero because I wasn't... but I have seen the "elephant".

I did find myself praying VERY hard and harder than I ever prayed before. I do not think calling out to God in that situation is using His name in vain. People are calling for help and it is not like one who is in an argument and says "G-Dammit!" That I believe is using it in vain.

I do think that the initial reaction can very well be "Oh Shyyte!" but if there is time after for the poor soul it could turn to "Please God".

Just my two cents.

MHz

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

And you guys had most of the guns, think how hard the ones without any guns were praying.

This is the fastest prayer the Bible gives.
Lu:18:13:
And the publican,
standing afar off,
would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven,
but smote upon his breast,
saying,
God be merciful to me a sinner.

EagleSmack

#10

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Yes we did but when you're squared off with other young men who have M-16's and M-60's as well it still sucks.

jenn

#11

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy

As I lay in my bath tub this morning my mind wondered into this little sillyphosical topic. As my pappy and his brethren were fond of saying, “there are no atheists in foxholes.” Their proof was that under stress of life threatening danger, many atheists were heard saying, “Oh God!!” or “God Help Me!!”

There is only one flaw in this faulty logic and that is that most of the time and most of the people in situations of dire stress will shout out “Oh Shhhiiiitt!!!” I have read that from many different sources over the years but I can’t prove it statistically, but if you are honest with yourself, even the religious (I know that is difficult for you) you would have to admit you probably have said it more often than, “Oh God!”

Does this not seem, using the theist’s rational, that more people believe in Shhiitt than in god? Or is it that they believe that god is shhiitt or that shhiitt is god? I realize that not too many religious people will give this much thought as it might be a strain to do a little critical thinking, but if just one person questions their beliefs, it will have been worth posting this.

Oh God vs Oh Shiit... depends on the situation and how you look at it.. in a fox hole getting shot at.. Oh God seems appropriate.. getting shot and the oh Shiit seems appropriate..
But then I can't see anyone sayng Oh Shiit during an orgasm.. but have heard Oh God..

so atheist or not... it is just a saying..

karrie

#12

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack

People are calling for help and it is not like one who is in an argument and says "G-Dammit!" That I believe is using it in vain.

I'm sorry Eagle, it was a bad pun, not actually meant to imply that it was using his name as a swear. 'in vain' has multiple meanings, one being essentially 'of no use', as in stating 'she called out in vain'.

EagleSmack

#13

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by karrie

I'm sorry Eagle, it was a bad pun, not actually meant to imply that it was using his name as a swear. 'in vain' has multiple meanings, one being essentially 'of no use', as in stating 'she called out in vain'.

No need to apologize Karrie. I get what you mean. Even another angle is if I am watching the Patriots give up a touchdown. I should NOT be saying "Oh God" at all.

And getting back to combat I can recall asking God just to get me through the night on one nasty night in the jungle. Long story but I prayed for day light and for God to get me through the night.

"Please God...get me through the night."

I probably shouldn't have done that but I know He understood where I was coming from. I think ones prayers become more desparate in those situations or other situations when your life of the life of the ones you love are in danger whether it be combat or an illness.

YukonJack

#14

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

When I see that I can't stop my slide doing 10 mph on an icy road and will pile into a vehicle ahead of me I say: "Oh, shytte".

When I see that I am piling into a vehicle ahead of me when I am doing 130 km/h I am sure I will say: "Oh God". And use the remaining few fractions of a second of my life to pray.

Tonington

#15

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

I say "Oh my god" and variants because I've been raised in a place where people use this figure of speech quite illiterately. It has no universal meaning, to most people who hear it they know there is: a) some distress involved, b) a corny joke, c) a cute animal, d) disgust...

English is a funny language, well aren't they all? Fuggittabowdit.

MHz

#16

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmack

Yes we did but when you're squared off with other young men who have M-16's and M-60's as well it still sucks.

I don't doubt it. Any event that brings death close to your own front-door is a foxhole

darkbeaver

#17

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

I had occasion late one night recently to inquire about gods benevolence, he/she/it worked the magic, maybe. Now I'm uncomfortably saddled with a debt to some god or spirit and because of my preoccupation with death I'm unsure which of the gods I spoke with if any.

mabudon

#18

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

I think that might have been me, Beav, I have some fuzzy recollections of talking to folks I didn't know in the past month or so

darkbeaver

#19

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by mabudon

I think that might have been me, Beav, I have some fuzzy recollections of talking to folks I didn't know in the past month or so

Thanks mab, I'll sacrifice the animal or vegetable of your choice.

tracy

#20

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

It was in the war that my grandpa stopped believing in God or rather stopped caring about some omnipotent force that allows so many innocents to be slaughtered. Foxholes probably create a lot of atheists.

darkbeaver

#21

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by tracy

It was in the war that my grandpa stopped believing in God or rather stopped caring about some omnipotent force that allows so many innocents to be slaughtered. Foxholes probably create a lot of atheists.

I think you're right.

MHz

#22

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

I had occasion late one night recently to inquire about gods benevolence, he/she/it worked the magic, maybe. Now I'm uncomfortably saddled with a debt to some god or spirit and because of my preoccupation with death I'm unsure which of the gods I spoke with if any.

If you didn't say the Lord's Prayer first it went to an address you want nothing to do with. Now if you don't want to say the Lord's prayer first you will probably have to do the opposite of what toy prayer god is telling you. And they say the little things aren't important...

darkbeaver

#23

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by MHz

If you didn't say the Lord's Prayer first it went to an address you want nothing to do with. Now if you don't want to say the Lord's prayer first you will probably have to do the opposite of what toy prayer god is telling you. And they say the little things aren't important...

Mabudon is a powerful shaman, he will see this slight and you will have bum boils at the weekend.

Lord Mabudon, yea though I walk through the valley of processed cheeze
I shall fear no saturated fat, thy beer and cannabis comfort me etc;

Last edited by darkbeaver; Apr 15th, 2009 at 02:29 PM..

lone wolf

#24

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

It was on the Golan Heights I realized all those Sunday school images of good shepherds, wise old men and a meek, mild saintly Israel were misleading tales and what else had the Church lied about....

Today, I have my Faith ... just not in any Church.

Cliffy

#25

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Mabudon is a powerful shaman, he will see this slight and you will have bum boils at the weekend.

Lord Mabudon, yea though I walk through the valley of processed cheeze
I shall fear no saturated fat, thy beer and cannabis comfort me etc;

Now that was funny. I choked on my sandwich.

MHz

#26

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaver

Mabudon is a powerful shaman, he will see this slight and you will have bum boils at the weekend.

Lord Mabudon, yea though I walk through the valley of processed cheeze
I shall fear no saturated fat, thy beer and cannabis comfort me etc;

Reminds me of that commercial of a guy walking at normal speed in a cheese factory, somebody asks him where the fire is lol.

mabudon

#27

Re: There are no atheists in foxholes.

Apr 15th, 2009

Ahh beav, I am but a frail pornography-makin mortal

I suggest using the Promethean method of sacrifice, too- the ancient greeks made animal sacrifices often, trick is they'd eat the good bits and "sacrifce" the offal thanks to Prometheus tricking Zeus- that's a religion I can get bihind fully, one that is full of crafty ways to screw over the petty, greedy gods

So yeah Beav, I am gonna make some sacrifices in the next few minutes myself, might as well join me eh??

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